Talk:Intellivision Amico

--Daltonsatom (talk) 18:37, 6 April 2020 (UTC)Internal consistency issue: last sentence of intro says 40 games at launch, while near the end of "Games" paragraph it says "about 30" games at launch. Ref. 5 and 29 is used for both and reference 5 and 29 are the same. Ref 5/29 says 40 games, so I'll change it to that for now. The June 21, 2019 date of reference 5/29 should be added to the citation [done]. I don't want to try to attempt to merge the citations, myself, as I might mess it up.

--Daltonsatom (talk) 03:37, 25 March 2020 (UTC)Please indicate what changes you have made to the article when you make an edit, rather than just leaving it blank.

Most of these game titles are not official. I have spoken with Mr. Tallarico and he has said that any of these games could be cancelled or shelved indefinitely if they do not meet their quality requirements. Also, many of the titles from trailers are just guessed at since the title was never shown or announced.

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/288558-intellivision-amico-tommy-tallarico-introduction-qa/?do=findComment&comment=4441489 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daltonsatom (talk • contribs) 03:51, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

The games you deleted have citations from the ceo of the company. None of the games in the list have been released and all have varying degrees of uncertainty. For example the announced packin Snafoo is being delayed and may not be ready at launch. It doesn't mean it's cancelled. It's not uncommon that games during development have unofficial names. Earthworm Jim 4 is an unofficial name that hasn't even been used by Intellivision Entertainnent. That doesn't mean these games shouldn't be listed. All but one of the games from the trailer will be released before the end of the year; subject to change of course. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.168.46.177 (talk) 06:17, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

--Daltonsatom (talk) 16:31, 30 March 2020 (UTC)I didn't delete any games in the list. I just stated as a qualification that many titles were mentioned in passing as possibilities in interviews, and not good citations. Many were pictures without names and and release of any title is not certain, although most are likely. --Daltonsatom (talk) 16:20, 31 March 2020 (UTC)Without going into detail, Mr. Tallarico has also said he doesn't like these lists because many of the ones he names are on his to do list but depend on if a developer wants to do it and if he feels the developer is a good fit.

They've said the new Earthworm Jim will not be a 2D platformer. https://atariage.com/forums/topic/288558-intellivision-amico-tommy-tallarico-introduction-qa/?do=findComment&comment=4306193

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.168.46.177 (talk) 05:16, 27 January 2020 (UTC) 

Actually, Tommy told me himself that it would be mostly a 2D platformer. It will just have non-platform elements in it. Daltonsatom (talk) 17:52, 17 June 2021 (UTC)daltonsatom

The atari creep price/value breakdown is speculative and not a proper source. The Tron license has not been announced as of this writing (October 2020). There are no usb ports in the cradle. The Dean Takahashi article says 40 games total not 46 (6+30 is about 40). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.67.43.219 (talk) 18:40, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

SD card media

The source about SD card media is old Since then they've said the physical media is patent pending and are unable to discuss until summer 2020. https://atariage.com/forums/topic/288558-intellivision-amico-tommy-tallarico-introduction-qa/page/38/?tab=comments#comment-4303941 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.168.46.177 (talk) 18:35, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

It's been recently confirmed that there will be no SD card media for game distribution. They will sell collectables with rfid that contain the game license that will trigger the console to automatically authorise and download the game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0MWxP5SRYI

--Daltonsatom (talk) 17:38, 30 March 2020 (UTC)Tommy Tallarico also said in that video that the collectables with RFID was just one idea of many and none of it may ever happen.

The Intellivision is not the predecessor of the Amico and Amico is not the successor to the intellivision. Intellivision did not precede Amico, there's thirty years between them. Intellivision did not succeed Amico, Intellivision was replace by countless other game systems in the last 38 years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.168.46.177 (talk) 01:21, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Bluetooth controllers

Based on these forum posts from the "official" Q&A thread, Mr. Tallarico has confirmed that third-party Bluetooth controllers will be compatible with his console. However, he has warned that many games will not support third-party controllers, due to the lack of a touchscreen:

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/288558-intellivision-amico-tommy-tallarico-introduction-qa/?do=findComment&comment=4440860 https://atariage.com/forums/topic/288558-intellivision-amico-tommy-tallarico-introduction-qa/?do=findComment&comment=4450903

This website is not a journalistic outlet, though, so I won't be adding that information to the article. Is there any news source that has reported on this?

Megalomaniaman (talk) 04:13, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

The console specifications on the official website lists bluetooth support. Wikipedia doesn't require a journalist for a source, a statement from the CEO of the manufacturer should be sufficient. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.168.46.177 (talk) 23:36, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Although the ceo has said amico prototypes support standard bluetooth game controllers, that does not mean the final product will have that feature. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.147.117.86 (talk) 22:41, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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Links to unhelpful subsections of game pages

Pretend you're a reader looking at the game list. You see Cosmic Ark and think, "I never heard of that, let me see what it is." You click on the link and it's to a section on that game's page reading "An updated version of the game has been announced for release exclusively for the Intellivision Amico." That's not helpful at all. What you really want is a link to the top of the article to see what the game is about.

I fixed this, but an anonymous user reverted it, and I don't want to get into an edit war. Dgpop (talk) 15:19, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

A link to a page about a game from the 1980s is misleading. Amico won't have that game it will have a modern remake. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.147.117.86 (talk) 22:44, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

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Daltonsatom

As noted by several removals of controversial subject material, the sole contribution of user Daltonsatom, as viewed here [1], are major changes and favorable additions to this page.

It is possible this user is connected to the subject of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.88.235.139 (talk • contribs)

My response to 50.88.235.139: :This is a lie by someone seeking to turn the introduction into a biased negative commentary on Intellivision and the Amico focused soley on highlighting price changes over several years and delays in the console and add only c charged negatively biased controversial statements not directly related to the console or telling only part of the story. If you look at the contributions of 50.88.235.139, starting less than a month ago, [2] they begin with using charged negatively biased language. I left these alone and I and another contributor added material for a more balanced, dispassionate article, but 50.88.235.139 came in and removed them, so, I began removing what I thought irrelevant that he added and he came back and undid it. I am not affiliated with Intellivision or the Amico. However, a video referenced by 50.88.235.139 as a citation (by Ninja Kitty) shows him to be associated with internet trolls. Daltonsatom (talk)

My response to Daltonsatom : I added in relevant development information around the Intellivision Amico and changed the introduction to the article to match other unreleased/vaporware consoles that have had their release dates changed over and over again. I used similar wording to the Phantom Games Console article. You continuously work around my edits to remove my contributions. I added a link to the direct scripted investment pitch and removed known internet troll "Ninjakitty" video. I simply used that to cite Tommy Tallarico's words. Please leave my contributions to the page and let user Fyrael decide what is relevant to the Amico console development. 50.88.235.139 (talk) 18:33, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

My response to 50.88.235.139:Work around your edits to remove your contribution? What does that even mean? Giving a more balanced perspective rather than a one-sided biased perspective is removing your contribution? That goes against the philosophy of Wikipedia. You seemed to have no problem deciding what you thought was relevant in removing additions to the introduction and controversy section. The Amico has been shown and played in public and appeared complete in its performance and is held back due to a parts shortage, so I don't see why you would refer to it as a typical unreleased/vaporware console like the Phantom Games console. You seem biased against the factual reality. Daltonsatom (talk)

50.88.235.139

50.88.235.139 appears to be seeking to turn the introduction into a biased negative commentary on Intellivision and the Amico and add only negatively biased parts of controversial statements. If you look at the contributions of 50.88.235.139, starting less than a month ago,[3] they begin with using charged negatively biased language. I left these alone and I and another contributor added material for a more balanced, dispassionate article, but 50.88.235.139 came in and removed them, so, I began removing what I thought irrelevant that he added and he came back and undid it. Here is an example: To his addition of material being removed from the developers portal, I added that the pages had been stamped with "Confidential" and Ars Technica cropped that off before posting them. 50.88.235.139 removed that addition with the claim "journalist don't care if something is confidential". Maybe they don't, but his reason is ridiculous because it is very relevant that they would hide that they were confidential. Another example is removing a reference to the impact of COVID on delays by saying they were "advertising". See my response to his statement above for more detail. A video that was referenced by 50.88.235.139 as a citation (by Ninja Kitty) shows him to be associated with internet trolls. Daltonsatom (talk)

First off, the two of you need to read WP:CIVIL and stop attempting to target the character of other editors. Just focus on the content in question, and attempt to come to some type of consensus here in Talk before you revert any more. To offer my opinion on at least one aspect that's been fought over here, I don't see why the Allard content would go on the Intellivision company article instead of here. It seems to be very much centered on the development of this console and not other projects of Intellivision. -- Fyrael (talk) 19:17, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

I'd be okay with that as long as the reverting/deleting/redefining of counterpoints to these negatively biased additions stop (that make additions such as these more one-sided) and also that more reputable sources were used. I don't think statements about the matter should have, as a factual source for it, an anonymous, unseen Youtube video blogger with few subscribers who does numerous parodies on the topic. Also, I don't think you would see details of an SEC inquiry about an executive for Nintendo or Microsoft in an article about the Switch or XBox One unless it directly addressed some topic of the console like analog stick drift or ring/screen of death. That's just my opinion. Daltonsatom (talk)

I would definitely agree that the paragraph supported by the Youtube video should be taken out. Also, the Republic links don't seem to have any relevance here, so we would need a different source for Allard appearing on the crowdfunding offering. I would normally say to remove that sentence, but then readers would be wholly confused about what the SEC was asking questions about. @50.88.235.139: do you have a source for that statement? -- Fyrael (talk) 20:45, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi Fyrael, a source for which particular statement? I made an Intellivision Entertainment page to put company controversies, but it was deleted. I think the J Allard topic is relevant to the development of the Amico console and should stay as it was written. The Youtube link by Ninjakitty was the only link to the investor video I could find where Tommy Tallarico says that Allard made "huge huge contributions" so I used it to cite Tommy, not the user Ninja Kitty.50.88.235.139 (talk) 17:43, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Fyrael, I updated the J Allard discussion and added sources directly to the scripted investor pitch on Youtube where Tommy references J Allard and says he made "Huge, huge contributions," which is contrary to what was told to the SEC. Please let me know if I need to update any of the other sources. Again, I believe this is relevant to the development of the Amico console, and there is no Intellivision Entertainment corporate page.50.88.235.139 (talk) 18:05, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

@50.88.235.139: I was asking for a source for the statement that Allard appears on the crowdfunding offering. All you included before were links to generic Republic pages that didn't support the statement. -- Fyrael (talk) 18:45, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

I see you've included a link to that crowdfunding page that works, even though it's a primary source, so I'm fine with that now. I'm not sure how these new links to Angel are related though. They don't seem to have anything to do with this topic. So, I would still advocate for removing the "huge, huge contributions" paragraph until there's a reliable source. -- Fyrael (talk) 20:31, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

@Fyrael: I suggest any final form should include perspectives from more than one side, such as the following, before 50.88.235.139 decided what pre-existed and was added for balance were irrevelant (along with good references, which are relative in the following):

Introduction

The Intellivision Amico is an upcoming video game console produced by Intellivision Entertainment. The system was first revealed in October 2018 with basic hardware specifications and a price range estimated to be "$149 - $179".[4][5] Pre-orders for Founder's Editions bundles, which include a special edition console, $50 gift card and collectibles[6], began in January 2020 for the price of $299.99 with a refundable $100 deposit, followed by preorders for other versions of the console ranging in price from $249 to $299. [7][8] An initial release date of October 10, 2020 was set, but on August 5 Intellivision Entertainemt changed it to April 15, 2021. in February 2021, in the midst of unprecedented pandemic related restrictions, an announcement pushed the release date to October 10, 2021, exactly one year after its originally intended launch.[9] On Aug 7, 2021 Intellivision Entertainment announced they have to postpone the release due to "international component supply and logistics challenges". No new date was specified.[10] The system will launch with six pack-in titles and over 20 further games.[11]

Controversy

J Allard was touted as having joined the Intellivision Entertainment team in 2020 to help launch the Amico.[61] He was brought on board as Global Managing Director in May 2020. According to J. Allard, he left the company later that summer.[62] However, in 2021, the Intellivision Amico revenue share investment offering on Republic.co still listed J. Allard being on the team at Intellivision Entertainment, and when brought to the attention of the company's CEO, Tommy Tallarico, he said that J. Allard was a part-time advisor.

The SEC reached out to Republic, who were advised by Intellivision Entertainment of the following" (i) J Allard served as the Company’s Global Managing Director from before the filing of the first Amico Form 1-A until after the qualification of that Form 1-A on October 21, 2020; (ii) during that time, Mr. Allard served as a full-time advisor to Intellivision, helping Intellivision in the final stages of Amico hardware development; (iii) after this work of his was completed, Mr. Allard ceased serving as a full-time advisor, but has remained available to give advice when contacted by Intellivision; and (iv) considering his contributions overall, Mr. Allard has not played a material role in Amico product development."[63]

Tallarico was asked for a Nintendo Life article to clarify the status of J. Allard. He said "To be clear, J was never an employee of Intellivision." He went on to say J Allard was brought on as a consultant as they were finalising the hardware and operating system. "After J’s time was over we spoke about a potentially bigger role but he didn’t feel there was a right spot or fit for him moving forward but he welcomed any kind of e-mails from our team and simple consulting if needed.[64] Daltonsatom (talk)

Yeah, I'm mostly good with this version, which is basically what the IP just recently tried to add, but leaves off that last paragraph that I've mentioned above doesn't have a reliable source. We should make sure to include the archived Republic link to the offering that the IP provided. It still leaves this one small part unsourced: "and when brought to the attention of the company's CEO, Tommy Tallarico, he said that J. Allard was a part-time advisor." Do we know where that statement came from?

To clarify further why I think the last paragraph shouldn't be included for the time being, it's an important policy on Wikipedia that we not conduct our own investigations or put together bits from different sources to draw our own conclusion (WP:NOR). Until we have a secondary source making the point that Tallarico has contradicted himself, we should not be saying so, even if it seems apparent to us as editors. Readers can draw their own conclusions. -- Fyrael (talk) 21:15, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

I would propose the following for the introduction and Controversy page. Please let me know what edits need to be made. The introduction does not need references to the pandemic or to included features of the Founder's edition. I also believe saying the system will launch with 6 pack in games should not be in the introduction, as the amount of games other consoles launch with isn't in their introduction. Again, this is advertising language. That reads like an advertisement of what's included with your order.

Introduction

The Intellivision Amico is an upcoming video game console produced by Intellivision Entertainment. The system was first revealed in October 2018 with basic hardware specifications and a price range estimated to be "$149 - $179".[4][5] Pre-orders for Founder's Editions bundles began in January 2020 for the price of $299.99 with a refundable $100 deposit. [7][8] An initial release date of October 10, 2020 was set, but on August 5, 2020, Intellivision Entertainment delayed the release to April 15, 2021. In February 2021, an announcement pushed the release date again to October 10, 2021, exactly one year after its originally intended launch.[9] On Aug 7, 2021 Intellivision Entertainment announced that they would postpone the release again due to component supply shortages. No new launch date was provided.[10]

Controversy

J Allard was touted as having joined the Intellivision Entertainment team in 2020 to help launch the Amico.[61] He was brought on board as Global Managing Director in May 2020. According to J. Allard, he left the company later that summer.[62] However, in 2021, the Intellivision Amico crowdfunding and revenue share investment offering on Republic.co still listed J Allard being on the team at Intellivision Entertainment, and when brought to the attention of the company's CEO, Tommy Tallarico, he said that J Allard was a part-time advisor.

Additionally, in March of 2021, in a scripted investment pitch to Angel Investors, Tommy Tallarico also stated in reference to J Allard that "He loves our idea and concept so much, that he joined the team, and has been making huge, huge contributions"

The SEC reached out to Republic about the state of J Allard's employment with the company, and to ask what his contributions were to the Amico game console's development, who were advised by Intellivision Entertainment of the following" (i) J Allard served as the Company’s Global Managing Director from before the filing of the first Amico Form 1-A until after the qualification of that Form 1-A on October 21, 2020; (ii) during that time, Mr. Allard served as a full-time advisor to Intellivision, helping Intellivision in the final stages of Amico hardware development; (iii) after this work of his was completed, Mr. Allard ceased serving as a full-time advisor, but has remained available to give advice when contacted by Intellivision; and (iv) considering his contributions overall, Mr. Allard has not played a material role in Amico product development."[63]

Tallarico was again asked for a Nintendo Life article to clarify the status of J Allard. He said "To be clear, J was never an employee of Intellivision." He went on to say J Allard was brought on as a consultant as they were finalizing the hardware and operating system. "After J’s time was over we spoke about a potentially bigger role but he didn’t feel there was a right spot or fit for him moving forward but he welcomed any kind of e-mails from our team and simple consulting if needed.[64]

I believe these edits include all relevant information to Tommy Tallarico's statements on J Allard's involvement, including conflicting statements, without drawing any conclusions. The reader can draw those on their own, and they have the sources now. 50.88.235.139 (talk) 00:54, 2 September 2021 (UTC)