Talk:Monkey brains

Removed unreliable source

I am very skeptical of the claim that Chinese (or any people) traditionally ate monkey brains, especially the notion of eating live monkey's brains. I've noticed both here and in the Wikipedia article about "Monkeys in Chinese Culture" someone cites as evidence for this practice in Han Dynasty China an article by religious professor Holly Gayley. That article relies on writings of a contemporary Tibetan monk, Tsultrim Lodrö, published in his book Timely Advice (2004). I can't access that book, but one would have to know the author's sources to evaluate that assertion. Anti-Chinese propaganda is not unknown among Tibetans (for obvious reasons).11 Arlington (talk) 22:45, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Wrong Reference!

The first reference claiming to cite the United Nations etc. is linking to an article from LA Times in February 25, 2003 By Richard C. Paddock which was then sent by mail from Ed Colijn on 02 Mar 2003 15:15:45 and reposted in the FORUM (!) Wildlife Trade Interest Group (wildtrade-vlc) from Vern Weitzel on 03 Mar 2003 08:34:52! This immediately needs to be deleted! RMR 92.77.66.249 (talk) 21:14, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Popular culture Wolverine

Consideration for pop culture- In an early Wolverine issue Patch fought a bunch of thugs on a designer drug (Lightning I believe) that amped them up before it burned them out and killed them. It was made from monkey brains and of course had no effect on Wolverine whatsoever- except to make him laugh.Jbk 19:14, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

http://www.maxent.org/ch/monkey_brains_ad.html

Danger of prion diseases?

Would there be any danger of contracting a prion disease akin to Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease or mad cow from eating monkey brains? Pimlottc 15:31, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

The correct term would be herbivorous...

Removed the asinine phrase "though generally vegetarian" from the sentence "two species of chimpanzee, though generally vegetarian, are known to eat the brains of monkeys to obtain fat in their diet." If they eat monkey brains, they're not vegetarians. And vegetarian isn't the appropriate term anyway. If it was applicable here, the correct term would be herbivorous.

Not verifiable enough to be in the article itself

When I was younger my father (Karl Matheuszik) was a union rep for the International Association Of Machinists and Aerospace Workers in Vancouver, BC, Canada. One of his co-workers, a fellow union rep and family friend named Melvin Woods, told me about this legend. Mel was originally from Texas, and before settling in Canada had traveled the world as a professional negotiator of sorts for various companies. He refused to elaborate on the details, but claimed he had seen the eating of a live monkey brain in Bangkok during the 70s. He described it as the most horrific thing he had ever walked in on. I remember it well because Mel was well known for strictly keeping to the truth and though I doubted him at the time his wife told me years later that he only talked about it rarely, and then only to verify that it was in fact true. -Ryan Matheuszik 11:02am, 14 September, 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.83.11.163 (talk) 10:04, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

My uncle, William Glenn, Phd, was a dean at the City College of NY, later Dean at the University of Tampa. He volunteered for WWII and was assigned to the headquarters of Gen. Chang Ki Chek, the anti-communist leader in China that was the ruler of Tiawan, or the Island of China as it was known so as to distinguish it from Communist Main land China ruled by the Communists after the War. His duties were to observe the leadership of China in order to determine who among them had the capacity to emerge as a post war leader. Bill returned often to banquets on the island. He explained this brutal custom as common place among the elite. Indeed the monkey was alive, placed in a board with the top of its skull exposed and swoosh the skull was expertly opened and the dining began. Until I saw this Wiki I had never heard another word about it. He was a very credible source . His son lives in Vero and a medical doctor. he also know the truth. My. Aunt Pauline observed it on at least on occasion and was so sickened she simply could never bear the horror of repeating it, though she did confirm it. She herself had a masers degree and was the eldest child of the preacher that founded our church. To me, I will never doubt that I was told the truth. the pair had very full and interesting lives. Pauline wrote article published in the Tampa Tribune And Miami Hearld. I never met a sole that suggested that Bill would have any reason to report such a disturbing idea had he not witnessed it. as a cultural observer he did not condem the customs of the men that kept him alive through the war in China. Disland (talk) 06:11, 24 March 2012 (UTC) I'm guessing at the spelling of the General's name. BILL added that the wife of the general continued the practice after her husband's death.

Disland (talk) 06:11, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Urban legend, not

Okay, I have seen two videos of this in real life (one in china). Here is the other: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Q0DYo3zPk. I cannot find the chinese video online. The claim that this is an urban legend has been removed as unreliable. TableManners 01:39, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I noticed this as well, and Fixed it. Timbudtwo (talk) 10:13, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

This actually is just another famous example of an urban legend. There is absolutely no proof for any such custom. Maybe one or another psychotic person was inspired by the legend to actually follow the description given in fictional literature. But then there occur from time to time crimes, where the (mentally ill) criminal eats some of the flesh of his victim, which doesn't make eating of human flesh a part of American culture. As usual in such case the person who makes the claim has "just forgotten" the source or links to a video etc. which has been removed. I find it simply disgusting, how such unproven urban legends can find their way into Wikipedia! --Vicki Reitta (talk) 10:19, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately this practice is far from an Urban Legend. There is such a restaurant in the Cholon district of Ho Chi Minh, which serves live monkey brain and at which I have personally witnessed such a scene. The most disgusting thing is not that such 'unproven urban legends can find their way onto Wikipedia' but that such events actually take place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.69.162.127 (talk) 17:27, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I have no first hand knowledge of this practice, however I am pretty sure it happens. Long before "Faces of Death" and movies that made this popular, I employed a number of asians in an overseas location. We were in a remote place and without TV or Radio, we would spend hours talking in the evenings. One of the people I employed told of how he ate live Monkey Brains. I can still recall the conversation: "They bring him. Him be screaming and yelling. They put him in a wood with a hole. Him be looking 'round. We cut off the top of the head. Him be still moving. We eat brains with spoon. Him stop moving after one or two spoons.". Other asians there affirmed that this was an unusual but not unknown meal and that it served to give the man power (of some sort -- I got the impression they meant sexual power).--Blue Tie (talk) 10:53, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

...Right. In any case, unless some reliable external source can be found documenting that it is not, in fact, an urban legend, urban legend it remains. 15:01, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

@Blue Tie: Maybe those inscrutable Asians pulled your leg? Maikel (talk) 10:48, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Are you suggesting that Asian people have senses of humor?!?!  Mr JM  21:23, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

* And then a skeleton popped out. That's how seriously I'm taking this conversation. --68.123.155.127 (talk) 22:09, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Either this video is a very, very well done fake or it is not an urban legend (warning: very graphic content): https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=53b_1474482415 . Sure, those people may all be complete deviants. Anything is possible. It only works in practice (talk) 19:08, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

On the Australian softporn site abbywinters.com there is an Indonesian model called Diah who confesses in one of her videos that the weirdest thing she had ever eaten was brain from a live monkey. She almost broke to tears while recounting it, she didn't look like joking or making things up at all. I won't provide a link to this video, you can easily find it yourself. However, on the Indonesian wikipedia version of this article there is a link to a source claiming that in Indonesia "perhaps most brutal of all is the treatment of the long-tail macaques. Some believe that eating the monkeys' brains can cure impotence. The practice has led to over-hunting, says ProFauna, which has campaigned against the slaughter. Some establishments serve macaque at a special table with a hole in the center. The monkey is tied up and the top of its skull cut open with one slice of a sharp knife. The animal, still alive, is placed under the table so its head protrudes like a bowl. Arrack, a powerful native alcohol, is sometimes poured into the skull and mixed with the brain." The link is https://web.archive.org/web/20050313024343/http://www.undp.org.vn/mlist/wildtrade/032003/post4.htm

Actually the director of Faces of Death has gone on record to say that the scene was complete fiction. The people involved were paid actors and the monkey shown was not hurt.  Spintendo  19:21, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

This is No Urban Legend at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.247.88.233 (talk) 16:23, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

source not reliable?

source number 10 ( http://maxent.org/ch/monkey_brains_ad.html ) has a disclaimer on the top that says it is from a hong kong tabloid. is that a reliable source? Robin Chen (talk) 03:57, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Good point. Not a good source for wikipedia. TableManners ^U·T·C 04:51, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

That was Apple Daily, a newspaper, not a tabloid. --Tomchen1989 (talk) 08:14, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Warning: fattening

Funny that the article lists the high fat content as one of the risks of eating monkey brains. In most countries, where you're more at risk of mal- than overnutrition, a high fat content would be seen as beneficial. Maikel (talk) 10:40, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Request for information - they eat monkey brains in the Amazon jungle

It is a well-known fact that monkey brains are eaten by tribes living in the Amazon jungle - I would like to add this to the 'Consumption' section of the article, however I cannot find something which would pass quality-wise. There are videos but right now I cannot find something in the way of proper information. Any tips? — Determined Soul (talk) 06:29, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Pop culture is way too long

It has more words than the article.

And this article needs work. There is not enough material. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.228.216.17 (talk) 05:28, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

eaten live?

heard about a variant where a live monkey's spine is severed paralizing it while they open the skull and scoop them fresh. true/false? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.38.224.87 (talk) 00:56, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

popular culture

An article about eating monkey brains and the popular culture section has no mention of what is most likely the most famous popular culture reference, the chilled monkey brains from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.161.20.182 (talk) 09:20, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Agree A reference to the Indiana Jones scene you've mentioned has been  Added to the article along with sourced citations. —  Spintendo  02:46, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

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Does anyone have a quality textual source for money brains being an actual dish?

Well, the talk page and the article itself is full of people and sources insisting that this is some evil orientalist myth. I have heard from multiple firsthand accounts that it is not, and I also have seen extremely compelling video evidence that it is not (warning, VERY graphic video): https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=53b_1474482415 . Of course that doesn't mean this practice is widespread, but the article as it currently stands strongly implies that modern day monkey brain eating is a complete fabrication invented by racist westernerns so they can feel superior about themselves.

Despite the existence of videos such as that one, some editors will probably insist on a textual source since us passing judgement on the authenticity of such videos might be construed as original research. I'm not sure where the official line in the sand is regarding authenticity and/or reliability, but regardless I would say it's much better to err on the side of caution and sidestep any potential debate by locating a reliable textual source confirming that this is an actual dish and actual custom and not just some urban legend or "orientalist" fantasy as the article currently strongly implies.

So: I'm not so good with deep Googling to come up with reputable text sources. Is anyone else around here up for the challenge?

Note for SJW types who think I'm out to vilify other cultures: Our personal opinions should not matter when it comes to article content, but for what it's worth I *don't* think it's any more cruel or sadistic than many western practices. On the contrary, by stubbornly denying the reality of different cultural attitudes towards animals and meat, *you* are the ones implicitly passing judgement by implying it would be some terrible, disgusting thing if this weren't just an urban legend. So how about let's just leave personal biases at the door and work on describing the world as it actually is?

Note for malicious busybodies: I have not made any edit to the article and I am not proposing to engage in original research, synthesis, non-neutral POV material, adding material from unreliable sources, or adding material without a source. If you choose to repeatedly spam this talk page with neverending "reminders" about the rules that I am very clearly aware of, following, asking that others follow and am asking for help in following in order to improve the article, I will be asking higher ups for a block on the grounds of intentionally disruptive edits.

It only works in practice (talk) 19:44, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

On the contrary, the article contains several sources for it being a dish that was actually eaten. Here are four of them:

• Gayley, Holly (2013). "Reimagining Buddhist Ethics on the Tibetan Plateau" (PDF). Journal of Buddhist Ethics. 20: 264. ISSN 1076-9005.
• Gayley, Holly (1 March 2017). "The Compassionate Treatment of Animals". Journal of Religious Ethics. 45 (1): 42. doi:10.1111/jore.12167. ISSN 1467-9795.
• Gayley, Holly (November 20, 2011). "Eating Monkey Brains: Exoticizing the Han Chinese Banquet in a Tibetan Buddhist Argument for Vegetarianism". The Culinary in Buddhism: Miracles, Medicine and Monstrosity. Paper presented at the American Academy of Religion Conference held in San Francisco, CA., November 19–22, 2011. Archived from the original on 24 April 2018.
• Kabzung, Gaerrang (November 2015). "Development as Entangled Knot: The Case of the Slaughter Renunciation Movement in Tibet, China". The Journal of Asian Studies. 74 (4): 927–951. doi:10.1017/S0021911815001175. ISSN 0021-9118.

Note: Holly Gayley is the academic who has written the most on this subject.

 Spintendo  19:56, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

I have also added a credible eyewitness account in the 1950s, Leila Hadley. However, how widespread or where the practice originated, perhaps will remain a mystery.

Sirl2021 (talk) 10:33, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Cannibalism

Eating monkey or Apr shows the cannibalistic nature of human Nittin Das (talk) 06:49, 10 March 2019 (UTC)