Talk:Sunni Islam

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comparison between sunni and shiite

The articles between sunni and shiite seem very different content and layout. Maybe they could be organized more similarly and thus allow the reader to compare the two more easily. Also, a comparison page seems like it might be valuable.

Question about Sunni Islam

I as a Sunni Muslim am against the so called Sunni Islam, there is no Sunni Islam or Shi'ite Islam, it is all Islam only, therefore I am against dividing Muslim into smaller divisions, such as when mentioning about the demographics facts of any country, we are not Christians, if it is okay with the Christians to be divided to Catholics and Protestants, it is not okay with Muslims to be divided, I am pretty sure that most Muslims would agree, I say Most and I am certain, Please put this into consideration, thank you.

This article is aimed at documenting the Sunni Islam people and it's practices. We cannot deny that Sunnis exist. However, if you feel you have authoritative references and would like to contribute to the article, you are more than welcome. --Adriaan90 05:17, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Why does the "Demographics" section of this article refer to Shi'ite muslims? Isn't this an article about Sunni muslims?

About 99.8% of Muslims are Sunni or Shi'a, so 15% Shi'a is the same as 85% Sunni. We could reverse the numbers to 85% Sunni and 92.5% Sunni, although we wouldn't change the direct quote. Art LaPella 21:16, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Should we clarify this in the article? I wasn't aware of this fact and had to read through the main article on Islam Demographics before the article made sense. CecilPL 22:27, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I am a Church of England Christian & I don't understand why the Sunni Branch of Islam doesn't have a leader?

It's not that there shouldn't be one. It just so happens that there isn't one now. The traditional Islamic was (till the beginning of this century or so) was that there would be an Islamic state with a Khalifa to whom one can vow alleigance. He'd be considered the "leader". After the last one was deposed, there isn't such a person. --Nkv 06:43, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

With all the troubles in the world today & not a big guy at the top - it makes for a terrible image of Islam in general - having no network of PR. Also why do the 2 main different branches of Islam hate each-other so much? Is it a Persian /Arabic tribal thing?

You're referring to the Sunni/Shia divide? I can tell you that it's magnified very much in the media. Iraqi Sunnis and Shia intermarry. My family and I are Sunnis and when my folks were in Baharain (which is a country with a Shia majority), they received a lot of help from the Shia muslims there. My parents were alone over there and they went through some tough times (hospitalisation etc.) and during all those times, the Shia neighbours they had were very helpful. They still talk about it. There are theological differences and some people use them to stir hatred but that's not the case with the commonality. --Nkv 06:43, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I believe that mainstream Islam is a peaceful & respected religion (with not much in it as a comparison with the other main religions in the world.. - they are all much the same) - but the extremists are helping to destroy both the whole religion and also the positive image, yet behind closed doors must Muslims think that 9/11 was the best thing to happen since sliced bread..???!!

The majority of them don't consider it "the best thing to happen since sliced bread". It's made life miserable for normal decent muslims everywhere. There's a lot of scrutiny, there's a lot of hate crimes, there is a lot of discrimination etc. because of this event. Most mainstream scholars and laymen denounce the atrocity. However, it's alost a fact that most mainstream muslims are not happy with the way the western powers are treating the Islamic countries so their sympathies are not as strong as they would have been. --Nkv 06:43, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I am looking for the truth and would be grateful to hear from a Sunni Muslim that isn't going to threaten to cut off my head or try and convince me to convert!!Hayday 17:54, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

The media portrays everyone that way but that's really not the case. Most muslims (like followers of other faiths) just want to go on with their lives. --Nkv 06:43, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm American and not a Muslim, but perhaps the Muslims will appreciate me taking off some rough edges from the questions before they answer them.

Would it be good PR for Islam to have one caliph? Isn't that almost like asking if it would be good PR for the Church of England to choose a new scripture? Isn't that up to God?

Not exactly. Islam did traditionally have a Caliph. It's a desirable thing I suppose to have an "official" representative but it's not the case now and it doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon so I guess we'll just have to live with the situation. --Nkv 06:43, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I haven't read much about Sunni vs. Shi'a but it doesn't seem to be any more racial than the Thirty Years' War.

They won't like to talk about terrorism, but somebody has to talk about it while the weapons are still conventional. Some level of terrorism is supported by Middle East opinion polls, but if I were to ask Muslims about terrorism, I would start by distinguishing that level of terrorism from perceived provocations including Zionism. Art LaPella 20:10, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Links being removed then reverted then removed then reverted and it goes on

I think we should decide what to do about the link section of this site. It is consistently being removed then replaced in a long cycle. The list was quite long before and definitely unweildy. Maybe we can decide on some links that are worthy and try to come to something that is comprehensive yet precise. Links I recommend are www.islam-qa.com and www.understand-islam.net. The second is run by Dr. Saleh as-Saleh himself with over 1,000 hours of his lectures. The first is very valuable and contains fatawa from Shaykh Muhammad Saalih al-Munajjid and is very comprehensive. ZaydHammoudeh 00:54, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I would suggest to remove all external links at this point (since they all seem to be quite generic), and then create sub-categories as the main Islam page does. That way submitters realize that the external links section serves a purpose (to provide links to site that cover specific issues in more detail), and may refrain from just dumping dozens of generic links on the page. And, if not-classified links are submitted, it's also easier to weed them out as spam. --Frescard 20:44, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree that people are definitely doing mass submissions. However, in total over the past week, there has probably been atleast 10 reverts of link deletion on this page so I don't know if mass deletion is a solution either. I think today alone there has been two reverts. I think maybe we can discuss the links and come up with 5 to at the most ten (probably in the end around 7) links we think describe Sunni Islam and go from there. This is my suggestion, but I am open minded. ZaydHammoudeh 06:01, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

It's the same user (using three different account) who keeps re-submitting the links. His first ban of 2 days was just over, and now he's at it again. The next ban should last a bit longer, I would imagine... --Frescard 06:04, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I looked into what you said about the same person using sock puppets to keep reverting. I think you are right about that. I know the site www.understand-islam.net has numerous lectures explaining the creed of Sunni Islam in detail so I think that is important to link to because it is the creed, not jurisprudence primarily, that seperates Sunnis from Shiites. ZaydHammoudeh 06:06, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I have been watching the page and the site continues to be spammed with links every 12-24 hours. I am not an expert on wikipedia, just someone trying to give humble input; however, I do think given the trend of editting that it might not be a bad idea to put in lock preventing anonymous or recently registered users from editting. This I think is especially needed given the apparent use of sockpuppets to edit this site. I could be wrong on this recommendation. It is just a thought. ZaydHammoudeh 06:39, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

If it was more vandalism than linkspam I might be tempted to report/request that as well, but it's relatively harmless. If you think it gets bad enough, feel free to suggest it, or get guidance from an admin as to what point is the right point? - BalthCat 08:21, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Osama Bin Laden is a sunni muslim. Why won't you let him stay in the "see also" section. Futher, many terrorists are sunni muslim and should also be included.

Osama Bin Laden isn't even a cleric, why would we link an article about religion to him? We won't link to George Bush from Protestantism either... - BalthCat 01:30, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Blank space?

Is there supposed to be a big blank space below the first paragraph? I haven't seen this before, so I doubt it's my browser, and usually a chunk missing from an article indicates vandalism. Just curious. Jermor 07:16, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

The space was caused by the positioning of the demographics image. Because it was lined up on the right, it fell below the chart at the intro, and (therefore) so did the text that followed the image. I moved it to the left side of the page, and that fixed the problem.--Evb-wiki 15:13, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

ul-Sunna?

In the first paragraph, where it says that "they are referred to as Ahl ul-Sunna", shouldn't the "ul" be assimilated? Mattman00000 01:12, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

If you are to write it phonetically yes: "Ahl as-Sunnah", as س (seen) is a Shamsi letter Aaliyah Stevens 18:27, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Spam?

What is the story with the external links in this article? Is it swimming in spam or is it just me? —Wknight94 (talk) 02:59, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Important for 'wahabi' moderators about sunni page

The person who is pasting wahabi and Pro wahabi sites in the external area must know that others are also wathching his acts . as both deobandi barelwi follows school of thought their sites should be typed there not of non sunni beleief Wahabi Ideology . This act will not be successful . either remove the external links area from this page or paste their sunni sites . thnks sunni soldier of islam —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 164.100.151.36 (talk • contribs).

Lack of clarity in issues related kalam

• Ashari, mutazili, and mutaridi all believe that the existence of god can be proven through reason, this is not unique to mutaridi

• The emphasis on mutazili beliefs about the created nature of the quran, and that logic behind laws of god can be deduced, therefore suspended when that logic is known needs to be emphasised. Plus their rejection of Khabar al-wahid (single person chain of narrators hadith).

• There needs to be more explanation of the Zahiris, or thahiris

• It needs to be stressed that Shia are the only people that hold a Mutazili creed currently. Aaliyah Stevens 13:06, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Removing Sunni links and pasting Wahabi links.

All I want to say that most of the time here the person is pasting wahabi sites in the suuni page. If one wish to see can easily watch what Islamonline or saudi islam projects. But we the sunni muslim in Majority follows hanafi shafai maliki hambali schools , even deobandi too believed thses 4 schools . so the links of these Sunni sites like Yanabi .com ,Islamicacademy.org, dawateislami.net,msoamu.org,razaacademy.com should be there on sunni page .

Moderators please note this Point. thanks Indian sunni student —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 164.100.151.36 (talk) 09:53, 27 January 2007 (UTC).

Although you may disagree with the links there, posting and running and slanting the links posted strongly one way is not the solution. In fact, it is very counterproductive and leads to instant reverts. If you think there are ways to improve the list of links, then forming and presenting an argument is the solution.

Comments on your links - First I notice all of the links in the "hit and run" list are Ahnaf and Sufi; they provide no balance and are POV. In addition, here are some other critiques about specific links you post.

1) YaNabi.com - This a forum. Forums are entirely unacademic.

2) msoamu.org - This is simply a student organization at a university. It is not scholarly. Moreover, it is just a collection of links and videos with little additional works that provide additional opportunity for learning.

I recommend that links posted here all follow the official wikipedia policy on sources. Also I advise you not to label or pass judgments on editors. It is part of Wikipedia's policy not to insult and assume good faith. ZaydHammoudeh 19:00, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

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PLEASE GO THROUGH DAWATEISLAMI which is not only a Useful sunni site but also a global sunni movement.

• Sunnidawateislami is Indian Movement in some european Countries. its site also gives full account of Sunnism
• Yanabi gives most authentic discussion as well as videos of Sunni Ulemas throughtthe world
• Wimnet is World Islamic Mission throught the world. with its headquarter in London.
• Sunni Dawate Islami (India/UK/USA/Canada/Africa
• Al-quraan Islamic foundation Netherlands
• Islamic Academy it is most Knowledgeful site
• MSO AMU India
• Most Active Site
• Minhaj Ul Quran An International sunniMovement which is run by Prof tahirul Qaudri

who is giving daily Speeches on Qtv , a Sunni Channel .

• hizmetbooks is the most Exhaustive sunni site of Books.
• raza gives too much Knowledge on Sunni Islam.
• SDI
• Noore Madinah Network
• Derwish
• Dawat-e Islami
• YaNabi.com
• The As-Sunnah Foundation of America
• Faizan-e Attar
• Idara-e Tehqiqat-e Imam Ahmad Raza International Karachi (mainly in English)

It is offered that these sites represent different sunni orgn academy's and sunni sources. (These are True Representatives)

where as most of the sites below are either of Wahabi dawah centres or news sites as islamonline or Taliban Alqaeda Supporters Wahabi Sites:

Ministry of Islamic Affairs, Endowments, Da‘wah and Guidance Islam - www.islaam.com Islam Web - www.islamweb.net Islam Guide - A Brief Illustrated Guide To Understanding Islam. Islam Online - www.islamonline.net Islamic City - www.islamicity.com Islamic Finder -www.islamicfinder.org Islam Question And Answer Sunni Path - An online Islamic Academy Sultan Islamic Links - www.sultan.org Understand Islam - An Islamic site run by Moiz Amjad.

This article is about Sunni Islam, not the very specific 'Sunni' movements of Pakistan and India

Please be aware that there is a number 'Sunni' movements in the Indian subcontinent, who are Sunnis but they label their particular brand of Sunni Islam as exclusively Sunni, not including other Sunni movements within that new euphomism for the word Sunni, such as the deobandis, tablighis, Jamat-e-Islam. Asian/Indian 'Sunni' movements do not consider these other movements as 'Sunni' in their narrow definition even though these groups are not Wahabi/Salafi - they are part of the Ahl-as-Sunna. Their euphomism for Sunni actually refers to Barelwis and Sufis only as Sunnis, although this article is generally about all those that fall under the banner of Sunni, not just those who are part of Indian Sunni movements. It can lead to confusion about the term. Lets not make this an article about the Indian subcontinent's 'Sunni' movements and stick to the general non-cultural definition: i.e. the classical Scholars of Sunni Islam & the 4 madhabs, not new asian sectarian definitions. For example the UNKNOWN user above claims (with an appeal to sensationalism or appeal to fear that the following websites are Taliban/Al-qaeda Supporterting Wahabi Sites:

Islam Online - www.islamonline.net Islamic City - www.islamicity.com Islamic Finder -www.islamicfinder.org Sunni Path - www.sunnipath.com

This is is clearly incorrect. IslamOnline is linked to Sheikh Yusuf al-Qardawi who is not Wahabi etc, nor is Islamicity, IslamicFinder, and definately not SunniPath.com, which links itself to some of the sites the user claims are genuine Sunni sites. Lets not let this article be hijacked by Pakistani/Indian local inter-sunni rivalries. There are very few Sunni traditional classical scholars that came from india in the first 300 years of Islam when Sunni Islam was formalised. I think one of our primary sources should be the classical works on http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ Aaliyah Stevens 13:13, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

JamaateIslami / Tablighi themselves are not Sunnis

I have not read or heard any where in any Literature of Jamaateislami or tablighi jamat that they Belonged to Sunnism .They have created new Movements in Sunnism . They have Claimed it in many Places . same is the Condition with Deobandis that they with above these two groups have always treated Non sunnis Scholars whether they are Wahabi or not , as Authentics . In Whole of the Islamic History Except IBN e taimiyya ,ibn abdulwahab and his supporters and their movements ,the Muslims have a graet Majority of Sunnis. and these sunnis never accepeted the teachings of NON sunnis or any new Movements in Islam. It must be remembered that all the four schools have always Considered Sufism as most Strong way of Purification in each and Every Islamic Country . and the sunnism is used and Defined by the Sufi Scholars and Preachers Everywhere. Hazrat Shahwaliullah Dehlavi,Mualana Rum,Nuh Ha Mim Keller,Imamaahmed Raza khan,Hazrat Ahmed Maliki of Mecca,Hazrat Jalaluddin Suyyuti , Shah Abdulahaqmuhaddith Dehlavi, Shahabdulaziz , etc are some of the Name of Scholars of the Great Repute who are not only well versed in Sufism but always Supported Sunnism the haq,the Truth throught the world.

Come to the sites, most of the sites on sunnis page belong to the ahle hadiths and wahabis who even opposed the sunnis and their four schools. Then How can those sites be there on sunni Page ?

Can u Challenge the Turkish sunni literature at www. hizmetbooks.org www.raza.co.za or www.islamicacademy.org or www.yanabi.com ?