Talk:As'ad ibn Zurara: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 01:48, 14 May 2023

This article was nominated for deletion on 16 January 2010 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

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He hated the Jews

Regarding this edit, I think it's clear that 'he hated the Jews' is an evaluative claim, and WP:SECONDARY says that articles may make an analytic, evaluative, interpretive, or synthetic claim only if it has been published by a reliable secondary source. The source used is not a secondary source.

I also believe it's only WP:DUE to mention in our article like this if secondary sources mention this is in a similarly casual way. Why is it relevant that he hated the Jews? If it is relevant, secondary sources will surely have commented on that with some more context and depth. ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 16:45, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The words of 'Abdullah ibn 'Ubayy are: "As'ad ibn Zurarah hated the Jews." Muhammad tacitly accepts this assessment, as if it were well known among As'ad's acquaintances that he had hated the Jews. I.e., while it may be an "evaluative claim", the evaluation is by 'Abdullah ibn 'Ubayy and Muhammad, not by a Wikipedia editor.

However, it might be more objective to express the matter as "As'ad had a reputation for hating the Jews."

As to relevance, an individual's attitude to the Jews is relevant to the entire narrative of Muhammad's decade in Medina. Muhammad claimed to be a prophet in the line of the Jews and he was engaged in military conflict against the Jews. As'ad was a monotheist like the Jews, yet he did not accept their form of monotheism, which says much about his state of mind when he first learned about Islam.Petra MacDonald (talk) 01:48, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 8: / Line 8: @@
 I also believe it's only [[WP:DUE]] to mention in our article like this if secondary sources mention this is in a similarly casual way. Why is it relevant that he hated the Jews? If it is relevant, secondary sources will surely have commented on that with some more context and depth. <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">☿&nbsp;[[User:Apaugasma|<span style="color:#6a0dad">Apaugasma</span>]] ([[User talk:Apaugasma|<span style="color:#000">talk</span>]]&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Apaugasma|☉]])</span> 16:45, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
+:The words of 'Abdullah ibn 'Ubayy are: "As'ad ibn Zurarah hated the Jews." Muhammad tacitly accepts this assessment, as if it were well known among As'ad's acquaintances that he had hated the Jews. I.e., while it may be an "evaluative claim", the evaluation is by 'Abdullah ibn 'Ubayy and Muhammad, not by a Wikipedia editor.
+:However, it might be more objective to express the matter as "As'ad ''had a reputation'' for hating the Jews."
+:As to relevance, an individual's attitude to the Jews is relevant to the entire narrative of Muhammad's decade in Medina. Muhammad claimed to be a prophet in the line of the Jews and he was engaged in military conflict against the Jews. As'ad was a monotheist like the Jews, yet he did not accept their form of monotheism, which says much about his state of mind when he first learned about Islam.[[User:Petra MacDonald|Petra MacDonald]] ([[User talk:Petra MacDonald|talk]]) 01:48, 14 May 2023 (UTC)