Talk:Heroin

Endorphins

Whoever has written this page needs to re-evaluate his or her "scientific" background. Much of the information is ill-conceived, incomplete, or just plain WRONG. Take, for instance, the the last sentence- where the author says that herion addiction can be "easily relieved" with acupuncture.

I bet the person writing this article owns an acupuncture clinic or something.

Heroin is very similar to endorphins, the natural opiates of the body, but less potent. The body responds by stopping the production of endorphins after heroin consumption. Endorphins are regularly released in the brain and nerves to attenuate pain. The body's response in stopping endorphin production results in the slighest pains not being attenuated by the brain and therefore becoming an horrible agony. This is what causes the horrible withdrawal symptoms, although they can be easily relieved with the help of acupuncture.

That stuff was added by ,now banned user:Susan Mason aka Lir etc.. Mintguy 12:26, 16 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Acupuncture has been proven to release endorphins... http://opioids.com/acupuncture/endorphin.html (follow on relavent links) - jungboho

Be bold in updating. If you think there are things that need to be changed, please change them. However, be sure to follow the Wikipedia policy of neutral point of view.

Isn't the word "Heroin" a trade mark? -- Zoe

It started out as one, but I believe the Bayer Company has let it lapse. --Infrogmation 03:18 15 Jun 2003 (UTC)

This article repeats a claim I've seen elsewhere, that opioid withdrawal is caused by the opioid having suppressed natural endorphin production. If this were true, then administering an opioid antagonist like Narcan should trigger opioid withdrawal symptoms in all persons, not just those with opioid dependence. Narcan *does* block natural endorphins, such as are released by alcohol consumption or under stress. But Narcan has little or no effect on non-stressed, non-opioid-dependent persons, and this property is commonly used as a definitive clinical test for opioid dependence. Even if endorphin suppression is a factor, this would seem to be a minor mechanism compared with other mechanisms such as receptor up- and down-regulation in the parts of the brain indirectly affected by opioid use, such as the nucleus accumbens, the brain's "pleasure center". Does anyone have more authoritative information? User:Karn 27 Mar 2004

The paragraph beginning 'Heroin is chemically very similar to endorphins...' is not good. Heroin is chemically totally unlike endorphins which are peptides. I'm not convinced about the other points about withdrawal either but I don't know either way. I started revising that paragraph but it seemed like I was practically removing it. I realise it has been modified before but it is an awful paragraph. Perhaps the points raised can be blended elsewhere in the section. Any thoughts?

NPOV comment

While heroin is a dangerous drug, since it is a central nervous system depressant, it is the lack of available quality information, lack of quality control and infected syringes, which can transmit diseases such as AIDS, and hepatitis that cause the most trouble for heroin users. The money which can be made in supplying heroin addicts encourages a continuous supply, and the need to finance purchases generates considerable property crime.

Critics of drug prohibition contend that since addiction can be treated, primarily by counseling and methadone substitution, most of the suffering surrounding heroin is indirectly caused by prohibition, not by the drug itself. Others argue that legalising drug use, to the level of tobacco and alcohol, will eliminate the organized crime associated with it.

This section is POV, has no counterpoint, and is segued into from a more factual (presumably) topic. I moved the text here to let someone else deal with it. 192.249.47.11 16:41, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This article has an anti-Americo-centric point of view when using phrases like "Unfortunately, the US public and government has not yet accepted the concept of clean needle exchanges to reduce heroin related deaths."

This phrase points out the author's bias towards needle exchange programs and singles out the US its lack of such programs. I would suggest that the fairest way to treat this topic would be a separate article on needle exchange, including a comparison of the needle exchange policies of various countries.

--Carej 13:54, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The offending sentence has been removed. What is the justification for this page having "disputed neutrality"? -- AdamH 16:04, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

If treatments are to be discussed, I think opiod antagonist treatments like naltrexone should be talked about

Heroin-in-lollipops pic

Does this pic belong in this article: Image:Lollipops with h.jpg? The image is already in smuggling and Drug Enforcement Administration, but I was wondering if it should be placed here too? – Quadell ^{(talk) (help)}[[]] 20:14, Oct 15, 2004 (UTC)

Confusion over di / 3 / tetra, and "we now make"

The first paragraph of "History" doesn't make sense, and I don't have the chemical knowledge to fix it. This section is very unclear, and doesn't even make grammatical sense:

He boiled anhydrous morphine alkaloid with acetic anhydride over a stove for several hours and produced a compound that he called tetra acetyl morphine (morphine with 3 acetyl groups, a different, weaker form of acetylated morphine.) we now make diacetylmorphine, a more potent form of acetylated morphine. The compound was sent to F.M. Pierce of Owens College, Manchester, for analysis. He reported the following to Wright.

Even given the factor of two that can be off in acetyl prefixes (eg tetraacetyl- could be the same thing as diacetyl-), where does the 3 come in? And the "we now make" sounds completely wrong. --AlexChurchill 18:01, Nov 11, 2004 (UTC)

CRA Wright called it 'tetra-acetylmorphine', but it was a mistake. Axl 14:57, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Legal matters

Heroin is a controlled substance

Legal matters tend to be local to jurisdictions. I'd think that heroin is a controlled substance in all jurisdictions, but I am not sure of it. David.Monniaux 10:34, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Songs

I removed some of the songs from the list, until somebody can give explanations as to why they should be included:

• "Space Oddity" and "China Girl" by David Bowie (seems to me like the first one is about some astronaut experiencing a problem with his spaceship, is there some hidden meaning?)
• "Master of Puppets" by Metallica

David.Monniaux 10:45, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

NIN - Hurt?

In regards to the Nine Inch Nails song "Hurt" in the list of "Heroin inspired artistic works", is there any evidence to suggest the song has anything to do with heroin? I'm a fairly large fan of the band and have never heard H come up at all.

Is there any evidence to prove me wrong?

Cheers

MrHate 06:53, Sep 22, 2004 (UTC)

I guess not, I'll remove it MrHate

The needle tears a hole / The old familiar sting is almost certainly a reference to heroin. It implies habitual intravenous drug use, and the remainder of the song suggests that the substance of choice in this case is heroin.

--Dachannien 00:58, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Happiness is a warm gun

Tells about making love, not shooting heroin. --Tmh 23:16, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I figured "I need a fix..." was straight forward and guessed "Mother Superior" was some slang for one's dealer of smack or other substance (see Trainspotting). I coupled this with the common knowledge that John Lennon used H and concluded that it was the topic of the song. But I suppose the same argument of content ambiguity can be applied to most of the song list. More opinions would be welcome. --Freak of Nurture 10:58, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)

David Bowie

I don't see what "Space Oddity" or "China Girl" have to do with heroin, even if China Girl is a name for heroin. not familiar with other song 67.124.101.93 03:12, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

• In my opinion, "China Girl" is fairly obviously about heroin. ("China White" is a street nickname for heroin.) Lyrics: I’m a mess without my, little china girl / Wake up mornings, where’s my little china girl.
• As for "Space Oddity", I am as confused as you. There has been some idle speculation that the spaceship journey might be symbolic of a drug trip, but that seems a big stretch to me. -- FP 12:09, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)

• The album "Space Oddity" was influenced by (and contains references to) Bowie's heroin use. However, the individual song "Space Oddity" doesn't really make any references. -- FP 12:20, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)

Metallica

• Similarly, "Master of Puppets"" is also obviously about drugs (specifically cocaine and heroin). I believe the band have even explicitly stated this. The users are the "puppets"; the drugs are the "master", twisting your mind and smashing your dreams.

• Re: "Master of Puppets" -- Add'l lyrical hints: "Veins that pump with fear," "Needlework," "Ritual misery/chop your breakfast on a mirror/Taste me you will see/more is all you need"... Maybe not necessarily describing heroin, but obviously some drug. Perhaps cocaine, as many do inject it rather than snorting. The song clearly does not describe Punch and Judy.--Freak of Nurture 10:45, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)

Mmmh. About Master of Puppets, I must admit that, once I read the lyrics again, I now think it discusses drugs. I used to think it was about some kind of leader that manipulates people and sends them into some war (as in the Assassin sect etc.). David.Monniaux 12:46, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I removed Master of Puppets from the list, it implies use of cocaine from the line "Chop your breakfast on a mirror".--Guy 10:54, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

And I restored it again because it also refers to heroin, as discussed above. -- FP 22:56, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

Erowid pictures

once again i implore that pictures be placed in this article. Content is very important, but a drug article without multiple visual examples of said drug is not a drug article. I have e-mailed erowid with no reply yet (only a week ago or so) asking for permission to use their images on wikipedia. I hope we can eventually do so, as it will create higher quality, more aesthetically pleasing articles. Lockeownzj00 18:39, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Feel free to use these public domain images, if desired:
File:BlackTarHeroin.jpg File:ChinaWhiteHeroin.jpg
-- FP 03:11, Mar 6, 2005 (UTC)

There are excellent images on the DEA web site. David.Monniaux 08:45, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Modus operandi

When discussing heroin addiction, there are frequent references to the practice of preparing the drug in a spoon over a lighter. Maybe this should be discussed. David.Monniaux 08:25, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Duplication in page

I intend to take care of the duplication in the page's contents or revert it to an unduplicated edition. Well done. User:Sandbody 2230, 27 Mar 05

Dangers and legality

I reverted the insertion of this paragraph from the text:

(It should be noted that Diacetylmorphine HCl (Heroin) in it's pure form is a very safe drug. Constipation is Heroin's only known side-effect. All the risks mentioned above are a product of Heroin's legal status.)

I though this was blatant POV. Nonetheless, I'm sympathetic to the overall point of view, and I'd welcome a suitably NPOV edit that clarifies the role of heroin's legal status in the dangers associated with it. &emdash;ciphergoth 12:33, 2005 Mar 29 (UTC)

Are you referring to the idea that heroin's side effects come principally from its adulterants? That adulterants are added to heroin because of the illegalization of heroin and that, thus, the illegalization of heroin is responsible for its side effects? Or do you mean that illegalization literally causes these side effects? I'm an ED tech, and I think I speak from experience when I say that the adverse effects of narcotic analgesics are similar regardless of their purity; seizures occur in completely pure meperidine administration, completely pure morphine sulfate administration, and also in heroin use/abuse (I don't consider self-medication abuse, but some people do since it's illegal). Regardless of my own personal feelings about the illegalization of drugs - which is to say, that it causes more problems than it solves - narcotics' side effects present with administration across the class. We expect respiratory depression and arrest with heroin use as much as with meperidine; we expect nausea and vomiting with heroin use as much as with morphine sulfate. I also disagree that heroin is a "safe" drug - not because "it kills" or "OMG cuz yuo cna get addcted!!!1!" but because its rapid onset and short duration make withdrawal dangerous for the user and those around them; and because its adverse effects are intense esp. with the inexact doses self-administered by heroin users. Just because it has some cachet in the community doesn't make it safe: hell, if I had my way, meperidine (Demerol) would be completely banned, forever, except in cases of trauma to the abdominal viscera. This isn't because I think "drugs r bad SXE," but because meperidine requires huge and inexact dosages and because people go bugfuck if they can't get some after they've had a bit of it. Wishful thinking won't take away the adverse effects of this group of medications as a whole; I wonder what sort of NPOV addition regarding the "legislative causes of heroin side effects" you would like to see. Sandbody 16:32, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)