Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga/Online reliable sources

When Is A Source Reliable for Anime Project?

Looking at the lack of sources for anime topics, I was wondering; what do you consider as the factors of reliability of a source for the anime project?

Speaking with @BlankpopsiclesilviaASHs4 over on the Onimai Talk page, it was mentioned that what the Video Game Project Editors think of reliably may not apply here. Considering that over there things such as hiring university students as writers would be used as a factor of unreliability, but also apply to our main sources such as the Anime News Network (one example being Kim Morrissey, who is well regarded by many here), along with their Managing Editor not having a journalism/writing related degree which is another issue sometimes brought up over there to dismiss a source as unreliable. I'd agree. It seems that their standards don't really apply here. In general, a lot of their reliability criteria also comes from a dynastic view of having worked for another website that's deemed reliable, which would make things more difficult in this more niche area, but is also sometimes done here.

So is there a clear outline of what makes a source worth considering as reliable for the anime project?

For example, Anime Corner has often been cited, has a clear editorial policy, a mission with a good focus on accuracy, influence to get interviews, and no major issues that I can see. But it seems to be staff primarily by young writers, with little in the way of qualifications or experience elsewhere. Would that disqualify them here. DarkeruTomoe (talk) 10:20, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

I think the general issue is just that we don't have a great selection of sources in general. This goes not just for anime but also topics on all sorts of niche pop culture topics (while there's undoubtedly a better pick of sources for gaming topics, I'm sure if you held IGN to the standards of The New York Times, you'd find the former quite lacking). More "generalist" sources, which may be considered of higher editorial quality, don't tend to take a big interest in these culturally niche topics (and when they do, they tend to get things wrong about them a lot more often than the the specialty sources), so we can't rely on them for our sourcing. What matters, ultimately, I think, is that the people working on these sources have at least done a basic degree of due diligence and they get the things that matter to us right, most of the the time, when it comes to their focus. What we have isn't perfect, sure, but it's good enough, and sometimes for some topics on Wikipedia, good enough is what you have to settle for when it comes to sources.

And particularly for opinions (which is what was initially being debated at the Onimai page), I'd say that there's generally a lot less to be concerned over in practical terms- the verification for the writer of a review having an opinion on a piece of media is self-evident in the review itself, after all. The concern in that case is more that we don't want to let in particularly low quality sources with no standards whatsoever, because then that sets a precedent for citing those sources elsewhere generally, thus poisoning the well. That's my feeling on the matter, anyway.

Anyway, I don't know about Anime Corner, specifically. I'll leave that judgment up to more experienced editors. silviaASH (inquire within) 11:06, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Possible anime reviews

Since Kenshin 2023 still didn't have reviews by the most common sites, I've been searching other sites but I'm not sure if they are reliable:

• Animecorner seems to be related to the Anitrendz site which is often acknowledged by winners of awards.
• Sequential Planet might be unreliable but the title reminds me to Sequential Art which we use so I wonder if it's reliable.
• There is also Latest Anime News but this is the one I doubt the most.

Any idea?Tintor2 (talk) 21:44, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

@Tintor2: Latest Anime News is definitely unreliable; in its apply page, it states that as a volunteer writer for our LAN (LatestAnimeNews) blog, you will not receive monetary compensation for your contributions. Sequential Art seems unreliable too; I couldn't find any other major work from its writers or use of the source in other reliable sources. Anime Corner is the only one that has a chance, but I still don't believe it meets the bar for reliability. While it has been used in Anime Trending (which is marginally reliable), it has not been used in any other major sources and while its contributor page boasts about the degrees of its writers, I couldn't find anything by them from other publications, though I didn't check super thoroughly. Link20XX (talk) 22:42, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

> it states that as a volunteer writer for our LAN (LatestAnimeNews) blog, you will not receive monetary compensation for your contributions

While I understand payment for articles does add a level of professional credit to a website, is there anything in the guidelines to say this is required for reliability? A lot of anime websites run on volunteer writers, to the point that if it doesn't directly state that it does pay, it might be more likely that it doesn't than it does (and most don't seem to state either way). The same issue exists in gaming, with many websites 'paying' by sending review codes, if less so there with sources we might look at outside of niche ones.

I'd not want to dismiss a source immediately for something along those lines unless it's necessary, and considering some of the common practices in academia and the occasional self-published website that's considered reliable, it does make me wonder if anything directly states that only paid writers should be considered reliable when considering a source.

All that said, I don't really see any indicators of reliability for Latest Anime News.

On Anime Corner, as I mentioned here, it seems to be staff primarily by young writers, with little in the way of qualifications or experience elsewhere, so I'd be hesitant, but they do have a clear editorial policy, a mission with a good focus on accuracy, influence to get interviews, and no major issues I can see other than the lack of experience which are positives. DarkeruTomoe (talk) 15:38, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

@DarkeruTomoe: Regarding Latest Anime News, I dismissed it as unreliable because their contributors are completely unverified and it seems like they allow anyone to write for them, which means they have little to no editorial control. As far as Anime Corner, I admit that I am not very familiar with this website, so I might be okay considering them to be marginally reliable but definitely not a "high-quality source" for controversial claims. Link20XX (talk) 15:50, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

I do agree that Latest Anime News are unreliable. There's no statement of editorial control, there's a lack of consistency in some ways that imply a lack of editor (for example of three news writers, one always links Youtube, one Twitter, and one nothing for videos), no experience or qualifications are mentioned and it all seems pretty unprofessional generally.

It also seems a leap to say that anyone can write for them. Anyone can apply, yes, but not necessarily be approved. And I imagine they're at least turning away the people who can't spell, as a certain minimum quality is there when looking through their posts.

I'm not putting forward that they're reliable as said - just want to make sure a precedent isn't set and that we don't dismiss all sources that don't provide monetary compensation, as that was stated as the initial dismissal reason, but doesn't necessarily seem required for reliability. There's few enough quality anime sources as it is. DarkeruTomoe (talk) 16:08, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Like I said above, my problem with Latest Anime News is not that they don't provide monetary compensation, but rather their (pretty much) lack of any real editorial control. The way their apply page is worded makes it sound like they let pretty much anyone write for them without any experience in writing or the anime industry. Link20XX (talk) 16:14, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. I won't use them.Tintor2 (talk) 19:36, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

anime review site?

Are these three sites reliable for anime reviews?

https://honeysanime.com

https://theanimeview.com

https://www.heroic-cinema.com/ M.A.LasTroniN910^t@lk 14:41, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

As for The Anime View, I would lean unreliable; upon researching the website, they seem to be fairly new and still trying to obtain proper editorial standards. Their contributors also seem to have a lack of other experience as the only one I could find that had written for any other website was Peggy Sue Wood (their editor-in-chief), who wrote four articles for Comic Book Resources, which is not very definitive. For Heroic Cinema, I would have to conclude the same as it has unverifiable authors and describes itself as a loosely-connected community. Honey's Anime is the only one I balk on since that website has been discussed in the past, but I still can't find any real credentials for its writers, so I would have to lean unreliable. Link20XX (talk) 03:15, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

I'd personally not even count Peggy Wood's four articles for Comic Book Resources towards potential reliability, both since they're all listicles so not exactly quality journalism, and as Comic Book Resources itself may not be reliable. I know we have different standards here, but there's an ongoing discussion over on the Video Game Project that seems to be going the way of their recent content being classed as unreliable between recent quality and business decisions/focus on AI content.

For Honey's Anime, I've not fully looked into their writers, but I am aware that Brett Michael Orr is listed as writing for Honey's Anime, Anime Corner, a non-related content writing job and having briefly worked for J-Novel Club. No academic credentials, but a couple relevant websites, a writing position with a company and an industry position. Zeke Changuis has various other journalistic experience. The outlet also seems to have industry access with a good number of interviews, which doesn't always mean reliability, but is a good factor. DarkeruTomoe (talk) 16:04, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Regarding Honey's Anime, I did some more looking and apparently Rod Locksley, one of their writers, has written for Univision (not sure how reliable that is but I think it's worth noting) and its editor-in-chief, Alfonso Ortiz, was a Judge at the 2021 Crunchyroll Anime Awards. The website has also been mentioned twice by Anime News Network. Not sure how much those add for reliability, but it is certainly more credibility than just "I like anime". Link20XX (talk) 16:51, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

They've also been used as a reference here:

https://kotaku.com/dragon-ball-pachinko-machine-probably-wont-happen-1828571545

https://www.siliconera.com/snk-heroines-tag-team-frenzy-will-surprising-characters-yet-announced/

https://techraptor.net/gaming/reviews/sword-art-online-fatal-bullet-review-fatal-mistakes DarkeruTomoe (talk) 17:16, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Also on Vice: https://www.vice.com/en/article/kzdy73/hikikomori-hiding-from-society-hong-kong-japan DarkeruTomoe (talk) 17:17, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Considering all that, I don't think I see any reason not to consider it at least situational, though I would say I support listing it as generally reliable at least for non-controversial news or opinions. Link20XX (talk) 17:41, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

@Link20XX, What do you think about this site? M.A.LasTroniN910^t@lk 05:47, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Not the person you were asking, but IMO it's not a good source at all. It's just a random person's blog. No particular editorial standards/professional experience/assurance of quality/etc. Unless it happens to belong to someone who is relevant elsewhere, I'd not use it.

https://thepenandthebook.wordpress.com/ DarkeruTomoe (talk) 07:54, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

DarkeruTomoe said pretty much everything I would have said. Also worth noting their about page and most of their articles don't mention the contributors, so it's almost always impossible to know whether they have any actual experience. Link20XX (talk) 03:33, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

anime.com and fulvuedrive-in.com

These two website should be in the list of Anime/Manga reviews sources.

manga Jouhou, also i think should in the list, but I'm not sure. the reviews on manga Jouhou website appear to be reliable and cover the news as well. What do you think? M.A.LasTroniN910^t@lk 07:59, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Aside from the notable domain, at first glance Anime.com seems like it'd be difficult to verify reliability? There's a mention of it here, but it's not exactly a glowing recommendation. I can't see the main staff writing anywhere else relevant and the EiC seems to be an ICT person, while the owner seems to be about Product Design/content marketing/branding and is currently working with AI. No posted editorial standards, etc. The content does appear to be better than the others mentioned, but Wikipedia standards for reliability would presumably want some other positive markers.

I can't find much info on fulvuedrive-in.com and I can't see the owner's LinkedIn details. It doesn't look like they've covered much anime in any level of detail, but their website design is terrible enough that it makes finding it difficult and much of the stuff listed under reviews are actually just release blurbs. That said, some of their reviews aren't much more than a description with few lines of opinion added either. Is there further information that suggests it's reliable in the Wikipedia sense?

Manganews.net looks like a no go unless I'm missing something. Can't see who is behind the site and reviews are just attributed to 'Jason'.

Unless there's more information you can add, I'd not think any of them would be marked as reliable? DarkeruTomoe (talk) 09:04, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Nicholas Shefu has been the owner of Fulvue Drive-In.com for 14 years. He has done a lot of reviewing and has experience. he has also reviewed a number of anime.

Some Wikipedia articles have also included his reviews

So it is not so unreliable. M.A.LasTroniN910^t@lk 22:14, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

I'm certainly happy to wait for others to weigh in, but I wouldn't have thought any of that mattered much... at least in terms of how Wikipedia tends to look at what's reliable.

In terms of doing it for a while, any with enough dedication can post something for years, such as Angry Video Game Nerd who started in 2004, but is said not to be a reliable source, despite being rather notable.

In terms of existing links, there are currently 256 links for NicheGamer.com on Wikipedia, far more than the 40 for fulvuedrive-in. NicheGamer has repeatedly been declared as not a reliable source (and has been around for 10 years). DarkeruTomoe (talk) 22:45, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Here you can read all the history and information about Manga Jouhou site. the site has been discussed in the past, According to insidescanlation, Begin asking for public review submission, which eventually led to the birth of the Editorial team. MJ Review Team officially formed, it was later renamed to the MJ Editorial Team, with Firedog heading the team as its Editor-in-Chief. On April 17, 2006, Manga Jouhou launched ComiPress, a spin-off site to expand its news coverage

As mentioned in the discussion it was a project started people ComiPress, link to InsideScanlation from ComiPress. ComiPress is a spiritual successor to and branched of the site Manga Jouhou; a quick google search shows references to Manga Jouhou from two English-language manga publishers Dark Horse [1] and Icarus Publishing.Manga Jouhou was a hub of the scanlation community according to the InsideScanlation page on it. ComiPress has it's own editorial team, of which some of the editors are notable experts in the field, information for which can be found on their about page. The site has also been mentioned by Anime News Network, Also mentioned by mangabookshelf in the reviews section, here too on American Public Media Website. M.A.LasTroniN910^t@lk 13:24, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Sorry didn't get back to this sooner - I'm not seeing anything in the history link for MangaJouhou that helps make it reliable. Just the nature of scanlation and anonymous staff makes it difficult, since they're not qualified in a measurable way or in professional positions. It doesn't really confer any relevance from being posted on insidescanlation either, since that itself was discussed before as you mentioned and seemed to be deemed as only a self-published source.

>ComiPress has it's own editorial team, of which some of the editors are notable experts in the field

Experts in the field seems a little strong to me... but they do have a few people like writers of a publisher OEL manga. Only three of the team (two retired and non of the current editorial) mention involvement back when it was still MangaJouhou though.

In terms of the ANN mention, that's a positive side, though it's rather minor. MangaBookshelf I'm not familiar with, but it seems just to be a dead blog run by two people? The American Media one, a radio show by John Biewen and Chris Farrell called Japan's Pop Power?

It'd be good to have a more experienced editor such as @Link20XX chime in though. DarkeruTomoe (talk) 17:33, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Bounding Into Comics

I think it's time we list Bounding Into Comics (BIC) as unreliable. This website's reliability has come up twice (1, 2) at WP:RSN and once (1) at WP:VGRS. The website is a notorious supporter of Comicsgate, which itself is not enough to make it unreliable (WP:BIAS), but it also does not work in its favor. Regarding its coverage, it has described Viz Media as "displaying their ... level of disrespect for Japanese media and has written that Crunchyroll (has a) habit of licensing censored versions of anime; the former claim is objectively false and the latter claim is not inaccurate but is misleading as the censorship is actually done in Japan to comply with TV broadcasting standards and not by Crunchyroll (1, 2). They also have some questionable reporting on topics not related to anime (1, 2). Honestly I think that's more than enough to depreciate BIC. Link20XX (talk) 18:07, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

I agree. It should be added to the unreliable section. Xexerss (talk) 22:19, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure on this one. More than anything, I'd be concerned that some may immediately dismiss it due to the controversial opinions.

They make sweeping statements showing their bias and my gut feeling is unreliable after reading the articles unrelated to anime that were linked, but I could see arguments against it being subjective rather than unreliable as the actual information the anime posts are based on seems to be correct for examples I've seen. ANN has a very left-bias as does a lot of media and we have biased sites such as Anime Feminist often used, so it can be useful to have sources on the other side that discuss censorship, fanservice, and adult content.

> it has described Viz Media as "displaying their ... level of disrespect for Japanese media

This one shows extreme bias when referring to the 'disrespect' and judgements on why the changes were made. It seems to accurately report about changes between versions though, with video examples, so the information doesn't seem to be incorrect.

> has written that Crunchyroll (has a) habit of licensing censored versions of anime

It's worth noting that the gendered language in the subtitles are the main topic of the article. The censored video elements of Onimai were done by Japan, but the subtitles may be another matter, so this may not be inaccurate. @tomoyo_0810's portfolio doesn't list whether they work for Crunchyroll as a contractor or a Japanese company. DarkeruTomoe (talk) 13:20, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Those were just some of the first search results I saw, though upon looking into the website, they also described criticizing Crunchyroll's casting in Witch from Mercury as "neoliberal whining" ([2]). But anyways, looking into their anime articles, it seems like the vast majority are written by John F. Trent and Nerdigans Inc. However, for Trent I honestly could not find a single other publication he has written for (which is bad considering his page claims he is their editor-in-chief) and for Nerdigans Inc, they wrote one article for Comics Beat ([3]), which is a reliable source but one article is not enough to indicate reliability. While I would not be opposed to having more conservative sources, this one should not be it. Link20XX (talk) 15:02, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Comic Book Resources (CBR)

Just wanted to note that it was discussed over on the Video Game Project and pointed out that much of their recent content has not been reliable. A quick summary with a couple of quotes:

> CBR was a great source that had many experienced writers and received numerous awards for their journalism throughout the 2000s and early 2010s. In 2016, they were acquired by Valnet and most of their writers left as they shifted to churnalism

>This is very much rumor mill right now, but this morning on Twitter, CBR founder Jonah Weiland shared a post, shared by another former CBR editor, of the CBR account, which was apparently removed, claiming that most of the news editors who had not already resigned had been fired as the site moved further into AI-driven content.

I saw them recently mentioned for an inaccurate article where they've used ANN as a source but seemingly made up some extra details that can't be found on the ANN article or the original Japanese source such as English voice acting. DarkeruTomoe (talk) 10:12, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps the listing should be updated to something along the lines of "pre-2016 reliable, 2016–mid 2023 situational, mid 2023–present unreliable". While in the time before AI but after the Valnet acquisition it did resort to a lot of churnalism, it did have some alright columns that at the very least do have some good perspectives (like maybe [4]). Link20XX (talk) 22:48, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

The Natural Aristocrat

I noticed that Thestylesclash (talk · contribs) has been citing The Natural Aristocrat in several articles. At the moment, I am neither for nor against citing this site, but I'd like to know if anyone knows better about the background of this site and whether it can be considered reliable. On the other hand, however, I have a slight suspicion of WP:CONFLICT regarding the user. Xexerss (talk) 21:42, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

The website seems to cover a variety of topics that happens to include anime occasionally, so I think a more general discussion at WP:RSN would be better. Link20XX (talk) 22:33, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi, On Japan Society's official Press Page (https://japansociety.org/press-coverage/) you'll find that they link to The Natural Aristocrat for the following three articles:

"Bill Gates talks Global Health at Japan Society NYC (Video)"

https://thenaturalaristocrat.com/2023/09/22/bill-gates-talks-global-health-at-japan-society-nyc-video/

"Japan Society NYC: ‘Sailor Suit and Machine Gun’ Film Review"

https://thenaturalaristocrat.com/2023/04/29/japan-society-nyc-sailor-suit-and-machine-gun-film-review/

"Japan Society NYC Film Review: ‘Fireworks Should We See It from the Side or the Bottom?’"

https://thenaturalaristocrat.com/2022/12/08/japan-society-nyc-film-review-fireworks-should-we-see-it-from-the-side-or-the-bottom/

On Japan Parade's official press page (https://japanparadenyc.org/media-coverage-2022/), you'll find they linked to an interview The Natural Aristocrat did with George Takei:

“George Takei Interview: Japan Parade NYC Grand Marshal”

https://thenaturalaristocrat.com/2022/05/10/george-takei-interview-japan-parade-nyc-grandmarshal/ Thestylesclash (talk) 22:47, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

I am not expressing any opinions towards whether this website is reliable or not, but I do note the first link lists a WP:FORBESCON article and a post-2013 WP:NEWSWEEK article which are considered generally unreliable and situational, respectively. The second link lists a website titled "Sailor Moon Fan Network", which would definitely not meet WP:RS. But anyways, just a list of articles that mentions every time an organization was covered by any website is not indicative of being a reliable source. Link20XX (talk) 23:01, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

The Natural Aristocrat has been sourced by websites like Yahoo, Express, and MSN just as a quick example:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/cormac-mccarty-author-heavy-books-225042597.html

https://fr.news.yahoo.com/5-choses-%C3%A0-savoir-sur-nico-tortorella-la-nouvelle-star-de-the-walking-dead-135347521.html Thestylesclash (talk) 23:07, 28 October 2023 (UTC)