Talk:Zoophilia: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 19:11, 23 March 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Zoophilia article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27: 90 days

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

Wikipedia is not censored.
Images or details contained within this article may be graphic or otherwise objectionable to some readers, to ensure a quality article and complete coverage of its subject matter. For more information, please refer to Wikipedia's content disclaimer regarding potentially objectionable content and options for not seeing an image.

Zoophilia is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
May 23, 2006	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
October 29, 2006	Peer review	Reviewed

Current status: Former featured article candidate

Sexology and sexuality Mid‑importance

	Human sexuality portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sexology and sexuality, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of human sexuality on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Sexology and sexualityWikipedia:WikiProject Sexology and sexualityTemplate:WikiProject Sexology and sexualitySexology and sexuality articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Animal rights Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Animal rights, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of animal rights on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Animal rightsWikipedia:WikiProject Animal rightsTemplate:WikiProject Animal rightsAnimal rights articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Law Mid‑importance

	Law portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Law, an attempt at providing a comprehensive, standardised, pan-jurisdictional and up-to-date resource for the legal field and the subjects encompassed by it.LawWikipedia:WikiProject LawTemplate:WikiProject Lawlaw articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Pornography Mid‑importance

	Erotica and pornography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pornography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of pornography-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PornographyWikipedia:WikiProject PornographyTemplate:WikiProject PornographyPornography articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Suggested edit to better represent source in "Perspectives on zoophilia"

In the "Perspectives on zoophilia" section, it says this:

The Journal of Forensic and Legal Medicine (Vol. 18, February 2011) states that sexual contact with animals is almost never a clinically significant problem by itself;^[1] it also states that there are several kinds of zoophiles:^[1]

but the cited article is quoting the DSM-III-R (while discussing the history of how the DSM has talked about zoophilia) and says "zoophilia" instead of "sexual contact with animals", which are not the same thing, as the beginning of this Wikipedia article acknowledges. The sentence could be reworded to reflect this, though it might be better to just remove that part instead, so the entire sentence reads:

The Journal of Forensic and Legal Medicine (Vol. 18, February 2011) states that there are several kinds of zoophiles:^[1]

^ ^a ^b ^c Aggrawal, Anil (2011). "A new classification of zoophilia". Journal of Forensic and Legal Medicine. 18 (2): 73–8. doi:10.1016/j.jflm.2011.01.004. PMID 21315301.

Iykury (talk) 07:00, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Beastforum.com" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Beastforum.com has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 27 § Beastforum.com until a consensus is reached. Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 07:18, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Split Zoophilia and Bestiality

Research about this topic unanimously agree that zoophilia and bestiality are different things, yet this article is clumsily trying to talk about the both of them at the same time (sometimes confusing people who engage bestiality with zoophiles, despite research saying that these are different groups of people). Bestiality is redirecting to here right now, if anyone wants to write an article there, I recommend that you use these sources right here (doi).

doi.org/10.1002/bsl.2368
doi.org/10.1111/soc4.12306
doi.org/10.1300/J158v04n02_01
Beetz, Andrea M. "New insights into bestiality and zoophilia." Anthrozoos-Journal of the International Society for Anthrozoology 18 (2005): 98-119. (free pdf on google scholar). SparklyNights (t) 22:25, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just for clarity's sake: if I'm getting this correctly, zoophilia is sexual excitement at the idea of sex acts involving animals, whereas bestiality is actually engaging in sex acts with actual animals? Is that right? Beeblebrox (talk) 00:00, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that's exactly it. SparklyNights (t) 01:06, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral to weak support this page about this area of discussion is generally complete but not necessarily big enough that it 100% needs to be split. Wikipedia is not a WP:DICTIONARY and it will usually make more sense to cover several related ideas under one heading where they are overlapping even if they are slightly different. However I think there is potentially enough here to support two pages and to have a link between them somehow if someone wants to do the work of grabbing the different parts for a new page. Jorahm (talk) 19:19, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 18 January 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

49.188.124.222 (talk) 19:16, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done It is unclear what you want done, as you have provide no comment.

Suggested correction on German legal situation

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

The article states in the "Legal status" section that Germany supposedly banned all human-animal sexual intercouse in 2013 which is incorrect. Presently, such sexual acts are not illegal unless the animal is being forced.

Germany's court of constitution (Bundeverfassungsgericht) clarified the interpretation in their verdict against a challenge of said law in 2015 (https://www.bundesverfassungsgericht.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/DE/2016/bvg16-011.html). The court specifically commented that the law has a condition to it. As long as the animal is not "forced" the law is not being broken. According to the court "forcing" an animal is only possible with "physical violence" and actions that are "comparable to the use of physical violence".

Unfortunately, many sources quote both the original law from 2013 as well as the verdict from 2015 incorrectly or at least incompletely (Sources 72 to 75 on the article), adding to the confusion.

It would be advisable to correct the article by replacing the two paragraphs "Many laws banning sex with non-human animals..." and "Germany legalized bestiality..." with the following:

Many laws banning sex with non-human animals have been made recently, such as in New Hampshire,^[1] Ohio,^[2] Sweden,^[3] Iceland,^[4] Denmark,^[5] Thailand,^[6] Costa Rica,^[7] Bolivia,^[8] and Guatemala.^[9] The number of jurisdictions around the world banning it has grown in the 2000s and 2010s.

Germany legalized bestiality in 1969, and banned forced acts of bestiality in 2013.^[a]^[11] The 2013 law was unsuccessfully challenged before the Federal Constitutional Court in 2015.^[12] However, the court's verdict emphasizes that the law in question only applies on the condition of "forcing" an animal to "behavior contrary to its kind" where "forcing" entails either the use of "physical violence" or "actions that are comparable to the use of physical violence". In conclusion, German law allows non-forced acts of human-animal sexual intercourse to some extent. In spite of that, the current legal situation and the 2015 verdict are often misrepresented in media as a total ban of bestiality in Germany.^[13]^[14]^[15]^[16] Fijexaw931 (talk) 21:50, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

None of the sources you cite for the claim that 'German law allows non-forced acts of human-animal sexual intercourse to some extent' even remotely supports it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:22, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See the third paragraph of the official press release of the Federal Constitutional Court (https://www.bundesverfassungsgericht.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/DE/2016/bvg16-011.html; Its's linked as "[12]" above). The second sentence reads "Der Tatbestand des § 3 Satz 1 Nr. 13 TierSchG wird in doppelter Hinsicht durch die Merkmale der „sexuellen Handlung“ und des „Zwingens“ zu einem „artwidrigen Verhalten“ begrenzt.".

This translates to "The offense of [the law against bestiality] is limited in two aspects by the characteristics of the "sexual act" and the "forcing" to engage in "behavior contrary to [the animal's] kind."

The court specifically describes how the law that forbids bestiality is limited to situations where someone is "forcing" an animal. The verdict leaves no room for interpretation about the existence of this limitation.

To put it simply: There is a law that forbids certain sexual acts. This law is limited by certain conditions. If these conditions are not met the law does not apply. "Forcing" the animal to something is one of these conditions. Fijexaw931 (talk) 14:43, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia does not base content on contributors personal readings of legislation. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:54, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As it should be. That's why the primary source of information is the one to be considered here, which is the German Federal Constitutional Court. The literal quote of the court states this law's limitation. Fijexaw931 (talk) 19:11, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "New Hampshire HB1547 – 2016 – Regular Session". Legiscan.com. Retrieved 17 April 2017.
^ "Ohio SB195 – 2015–2016 – 131st General Assembly". Legiscan.com. Retrieved 16 November 2017.
^ "Sweden Joins An Increasing Number of European Countries That Ban Bestiality". Webpronews.com. 13 June 2013. Retrieved 16 November 2017.
^ "Stundar kynlíf með hundinum sínum". www.mbl.is.
^ "Flertal for lovændring: Nu bliver sex med dyr ulovligt". 21 April 2015. Retrieved 20 October 2018.
^ [1] ^{[dead link]}
^ "Diputados aclaran alcances y límites de la nueva Ley de Bienestar Animal". Elpais.cr. 10 March 2016. Retrieved 16 November 2017.
^ "LEY No 700 del 01 de Junio de 2015". Derechoteca.com. Retrieved 16 November 2017.
^ "Ley de Protección y Bienestar Animal". Transdoc Archivos Leyes (in Spanish). Archived from the original on 2 December 2020. Retrieved 16 November 2017.
^ "Animal welfare: Germany moves to ban bestiality". BBC. 28 November 2012. Retrieved 28 May 2021.
^ "Tierschutzgesetz § 3" (in German). Bundesministerium der Justiz. Archived from the original on 29 January 2019.
^ "Erfolglose Verfassungsbeschwerde gegen den Ordnungswidrigkeitentatbestand der sexuellen Handlung mit Tieren" [Unsuccessful constitutional complaint against the administrative offense of sexual acts with animals]. www.bundesverfassungsgericht.de (Press release) (in German). Bundesverfassungsgericht. 18 February 2016. Archived from the original on 29 January 2020. Retrieved 26 February 2020.
^ "Top German court rejects challenge to law against bestiality". AP NEWS. 18 February 2016. Archived from the original on 29 January 2020. Retrieved 26 February 2020.
^ "German Court Rules Sex With Animals Still Illegal". Time. Archived from the original on 29 December 2016. Retrieved 26 February 2020.
^ "Bid to end German animal-sex ban fails". BBC News. 19 February 2016. Archived from the original on 31 January 2018. Retrieved 26 February 2020.
^ "Top court throws out bid to legalize bestiality". The Local Germany. 18 February 2016. Archived from the original on 29 January 2020. Retrieved 29 January 2020.

Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. This does NOT seem an uncontroversial change, and so the "Edit Request" process isn't the right one to use. PianoDan (talk) 17:45, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. M.Bitton (talk) 15:45, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cite error: There are <ref group=lower-alpha> tags or {{efn}} templates on this page, but the references will not show without a {{reflist|group=lower-alpha}} template or {{notelist}} template (see the help page).

[scidirectpii-1] Aggrawal, Anil (2011). "A new classification of zoophilia". Journal of Forensic and Legal Medicine. 18 (2): 73–8. doi:10.1016/j.jflm.2011.01.004. PMID 21315301.

[Newhampshire-2] "New Hampshire HB1547 – 2016 – Regular Session". Legiscan.com. Retrieved 17 April 2017.

[Ohio-3] "Ohio SB195 – 2015–2016 – 131st General Assembly". Legiscan.com. Retrieved 16 November 2017.

[4] "Sweden Joins An Increasing Number of European Countries That Ban Bestiality". Webpronews.com. 13 June 2013. Retrieved 16 November 2017.

[5] "Stundar kynlíf með hundinum sínum". www.mbl.is.

[6] "Flertal for lovændring: Nu bliver sex med dyr ulovligt". 21 April 2015. Retrieved 20 October 2018.

[7] [1] ^{[dead link]}

[8] "Diputados aclaran alcances y límites de la nueva Ley de Bienestar Animal". Elpais.cr. 10 March 2016. Retrieved 16 November 2017.

[9] "LEY No 700 del 01 de Junio de 2015". Derechoteca.com. Retrieved 16 November 2017.

[10] "Ley de Protección y Bienestar Animal". Transdoc Archivos Leyes (in Spanish). Archived from the original on 2 December 2020. Retrieved 16 November 2017.

[11] "Animal welfare: Germany moves to ban bestiality". BBC. 28 November 2012. Retrieved 28 May 2021.

[13] "Tierschutzgesetz § 3" (in German). Bundesministerium der Justiz. Archived from the original on 29 January 2019.

[14] "Erfolglose Verfassungsbeschwerde gegen den Ordnungswidrigkeitentatbestand der sexuellen Handlung mit Tieren" [Unsuccessful constitutional complaint against the administrative offense of sexual acts with animals]. www.bundesverfassungsgericht.de (Press release) (in German). Bundesverfassungsgericht. 18 February 2016. Archived from the original on 29 January 2020. Retrieved 26 February 2020.

[15] "Top German court rejects challenge to law against bestiality". AP NEWS. 18 February 2016. Archived from the original on 29 January 2020. Retrieved 26 February 2020.

[16] "German Court Rules Sex With Animals Still Illegal". Time. Archived from the original on 29 December 2016. Retrieved 26 February 2020.

[17] "Bid to end German animal-sex ban fails". BBC News. 19 February 2016. Archived from the original on 31 January 2018. Retrieved 26 February 2020.

[18] "Top court throws out bid to legalize bestiality". The Local Germany. 18 February 2016. Archived from the original on 29 January 2020. Retrieved 29 January 2020.

[1]

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]

[6]

[7]

[8]

[9]

[a]

[11]

[12]

[13]

[14]

[15]

[16]

@@ Line 97: / Line 97: @@
 ::To put it simply: There is a law that forbids certain sexual acts. This law is limited by certain conditions. If these conditions are not met the law does not apply. "Forcing" the animal to something is one of these conditions. [[User:Fijexaw931|Fijexaw931]] ([[User talk:Fijexaw931|talk]]) 14:43, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
 :::Wikipedia does not base content on contributors personal readings of legislation. [[User:AndyTheGrump|AndyTheGrump]] ([[User talk:AndyTheGrump|talk]]) 14:54, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
+::::As it should be. That's why the primary source of information is the one to be considered here, which is the German Federal Constitutional Court. The literal quote of the court states this law's limitation. [[User:Fijexaw931|Fijexaw931]] ([[User talk:Fijexaw931|talk]]) 19:11, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
 {{talk-ref}}