Talk:New York Yankees

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The Evil Empire

Someone had earlier added "The Evil Empire" as one of the nicknames for the Yankees. While it is used by detractors, it is still a legitimate nickname, and has actually been embraced by many Yankees fans. It's widely used, and it deserves to be mentioned among the other nicknames. Please discuss this here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Silent Wind of Doom (talk • contribs) 16:46, 1 April 2007 (UTC).

You added it. I don't think it belongs in the lead but rather in the Critics section (the Bronx Zoo should go down there too) where it should be discussed in more detail. Michael Greiner 17:54, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the user "YouLookAdopted" added The Evil Empire on March 27th. I think it should at least get mention along with all the other nicknames, especially as it is one of the most used other names for the Yankees. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Silent Wind of Doom (talk • contribs) 04:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC).

How about I put the nicknames in the intro and just say that that's what critics call them, and then leave the longer explaination to the critics section. The only problem is that Bronx Zoo isn't always used by critics. It's been used by critics and fans alike. Also, thank you Passion of the Damon for completely ignoring the civilized discussion and just reverting it without so much as a word here. Really great to have people like that working on here to better this page.Silent Wind of Doom 11:15, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Why is it that Bronx Zoo can be there, but Evil Empire can't? It's just as valid as any other nickname. It's widely used, and, as I mentioned, many fans have come to love and embrace it. There's two Yankees fans who have videos on MySpace under the name "The Evil Empire". Why on earth can't we leave it at the beginning. If anything, leaving such a widely used nickname out of the list of nicknames is being extremely biased. Silent Wind of Doom 02:03, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Derogatory or not, the nickname as numerous reliable sources to quote and is now commonly used and as noted above, actually embraced by some Yankees fans. Yankees76 02:52, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

The critics section is biased.

No, it's not. The Yankees win a lot. Their fans love it, other teams' fans don't. Plain and simple as that. Baseball Bugs 02:15, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

The whole article is biased. Old news.71.127.194.171 00:47, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

How would you fix it, then? Baseball Bugs 02:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

The part that says people chant "Yankees Suck" when the Yankees are winning doesn't make sense. People chant it when the Yankees are losing and when the opposing team is having some sort of rally. Especially if it is a weak team and the underdog or one with a lower payroll, like the Colorado Rockies or Tampa Bay Devil Rays.151.198.161.98 00:59, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Some of the stuff is unsourced or opinions, like the part that says that there are more Yankee fans than Met fans.71.127.194.36 07:31, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect, I'll try to dig up some attendance stats for both teams. As far as the whole Evil Empire discussion, if "The Bronx Zoo" is listed, "Evil Empire" should be. Bronx Zoo generally refers to the team of a specific era, while Evil Empire generally implies the team under George, could refer to the entire history.Mbruno42 14:37, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

There are Yankees fans everywhere. You'd be hard pressed to find many Mets fans outside the New York area, except among transplants. Baseball Bugs 15:13, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

You can't technically prove that even if there was an official poll.

I could if I had to. And so could you. Baseball Bugs 22:00, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Please don't feed the trolls. Also, largest indent (11) I've seen. --Michael Greiner 22:08, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

How about this one? :) Baseball Bugs 22:34, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Don't spam the talk page with random off-topic comments.

Mind your own business, red-link. Baseball Bugs 22:30, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

So shouldn't every team have a "Critics" section? Oh of course not, only the team with the MOST fans, right? Yeah, that really makes sense.......Wikipedia at its best. 67.186.151.231 00:18, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, you could have a Critics section for the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. But that would be like shooting fish in a barrel. Baseball Bugs 00:20, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Wow, what a quick reply. Do you have Wikipedia send you an e-mail when the page is edited? Or do you willingly reserve time in your day just for editing Wikipedia articles? Anyway, this "Critics" section is just a way for Yankee Haters to get in their little digs without repercussion, all the while claiming its necessary for maintaining Wikipedia's self-degrading and unnecessary formatting rules. I'm working on a "Critics" section for the New York Mets and Boston Red Sox as we speak. And it will be put into the articles. 67.186.151.231 00:28, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Music Section

It should be added that The Who's "Won't Get Fooled Again" is played prior to the Yankees taking the field every game. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BrianB4837 (talk • contribs) 05:13, 3 April 2007 (UTC).

Steinbrenner's Name?

When Steinbrenner is first mentioned in the article, should we refer to him simply as "George Steinbrenner", or by the full "George M. Steinbrenner III"? Silent Wind of Doom 20:16, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Since his wiki article is George Steinbrenner and not George M. Steinbrenner III (redirect to George Steinbrenner) I think we should we should use "George Steinbrenner" in the text and "George M. Steinbrenner III" in the infobox. The Yankees' website seems to use both. Michael Greiner 20:48, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

This is when he's first mentioned in the article (at least the history section): "A group of investors, led by Cleveland-based shipbuilder George Steinbrenner, purchased the club from CBS for $8.7 million on January 3, 1973." Just wasn't sure if his full name would fit better there or just his first and last. Silent Wind of Doom 21:52, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

"Yankees is" vs. "Yankees are"

Proper phrasing is "Yankees are." This is an American sports team, and that's the correct American usage. Unless and until a consensus is reached to use the other form, it should remain "Yankees are." Comments? Brad E. Williams 20:21, 16 April 2007 (UTC) ш Teamferby 21:12, 16 April 2007 (UTC)== "Yankees is" vs. "Yankees are" == Proper phrasing depends on the context of the subject and sentence. If the subject is plaural in which a pronoun for the pluarl is needed, "Yankees are" is to be used. Here, Yankees refers to the players individually, not as a group our singular entity. "The Yankees is" refers to the team itself. It is the name of the team and names follow with sinuglar pronouns. "The New York Yankees is a baseball team." Why? This sentence translates to 'the group of men are a baseball team.' Although there is more than one person, a group is a single entity, as is a team. The word 'team' or 'club' does not need to be included for identification of singular or plural use since it will be obvious based on the subjects use and its pronouns.

Moreoever, there are gross errors in the following: "The Yankees have been Major League Baseball's most storied franchise, winning 26 World Series titles and 39 American League Pennants. Their 26 titles make them the most successful franchise in North American professional sports history, passing the Montreal Canadiens' 24 titles in 1999. They are also the only team represented in the National Baseball Hall of Fame at every position. Notably,they have faced every winner of the National League pennant in the World Series except for the Houston Astros, who won their first pennant in 2005."

The use of "they" and "their" are incorrect. Here, the contect of these sentences is about the team, a singular entity, thus singualr (it, its). "Its 26 titles makes it the most successful franchise (the team, singualr)..." "It has faced...Italic text Houston Astros [the team], who won its..."

That is correct (as it should be throught the entire article, which too is riddled with these grammatical errors.

I understand that, from a grammatical standpoint, "Yankees is" would normally be the correct form. However, in practice, plural team names ("Yankees") use plural verbs and pronouns, while singular team names ("Heat") use singular verbs and pronouns. Any news story or book originating in the US demonstrates that. Brad E. Williams 21:25, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

No, no, no. Grammatically and conceptually, the New York Yankees are a mass (of what you can't say in polite company ^_^), and mass nouns typically take the plural forms. If you refer to the team as a single unit, then singular forms apply, but a mass group of individuals take plural forms. Not to mention, "Yankees is" sounds bad. I would also posit that singular team names like the Utah Jazz and Miami Heat should also take plural forms...but that's probably because I consume too much English media, who always say things like "Manchester United are two goals up on Arsenal with five minutes remaining" or some such. Don't get me started on the use of "the", either. Nobody, and I mean nobody in their right minds calls Rangers FC "the Glasgow Rangers". SWalkerTTU 09:50, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

So if you understand this, then you will have no problem admitting the stupidity of that concept, where "plural teams take plural verbs and pronouns and singualr teams take singular pronouns and verbs." Each is a team. Each represents the same thing. Each is an accumlulation of many people who, together, create a unified group, a single etity. Whether it's the Miami Heat or the Toronto Blue Jays, each is but one team. Each is singular.Teamferby 22:08, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree that it doesn't make grammatical sense. That doesn't change the fact, however, that it's the way it works. I did a quick look around to make sure that it was consistently written that way, and it is. :-) Brad E. Williams 22:14, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

It makes perfect grammatical sense if you consider the club as a mass noun. It seems to me Teamferby has a conceptual problem, not grammatical. SWalkerTTU 09:50, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Consistency means nothing if it is wrong. That is the problem in society - society's conformation to social norms. Indeed, nearly everywhere you look it is the way in which you are suggesting it should be. That doesn't justify it. I have had professionals in the media agree with me and their response is "unfortunately, this is the way society is," as to say we as individuals can do nothing about it. Those who know better, will write properly, while everyone else will think we're wrong. The option is to avoid social citicism and fear of rejection and confrom to the incorrect ways. I am not suggesting anything about you, nor am I trying to attack you in my endevours. In fact, I respect you knowledge and stance, but it is still wrong.Teamferby 22:27, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

The problem with prescriptive grammar—and by extension with prescriptive grammarians—is that essentially it is trying to enforce outdated social norms. All linguistic standards are social norms because language is primarily social in purpose. (If we didn't need to communicate with other humans, we wouldn't need language, would we?) What Teamferby seems to be saying is that people should conform to the particular set of grammatical rules to which he prescribes because they are "correct", when clearly the vast majority do not. If you believe in democracy—or at least majority rule—then that in itself should strike you rather harshly. Even so, what typically happens to social creatures when they fail to follow social norms? They get cast out. And in any case, who is Teamferby to determine English usage rules? I don't see him as the member of an English Academy—as there isn't one—and I've yet to see his particular credentials in the matter. (I know Wikipedia is not supposed to be credentialist, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we have to take the word of any old crackpot as law.)

Instead, maybe we should more conform to British usage, where we would say something like, "the Utah Jazz are" and "the Miami Heat are". I'll admit, that got me as I first started reading World Soccer (that is, the treatment of a not-obviously-plural team name as a plural, e.g. "Lazio are", "Arsenal are" etc.) but I got used to it after a while and now it's how I think. SWalkerTTU 09:50, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Just a heads up, but both of you have broken WP:3RR. Michael Greiner 23:01, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Oops. Sorry about that, MG. I wasn't even aware of that rule (which is no excuse). Won't happen again, and I'll understand if I get blocked. Back on topic, it's my feeling that we as Wikipedians are bound by the accepted style, even if we perceive it to be inconsistent or in error, which I think we both agree is the case here. I guess, in a way, that's what makes it a "style." BTW, I took no personal offense to your efforts, and genuinely felt bad about reverting so often - I knew why you'd done the edits, and hoped to bring the affair here so I could explain. I hope that we can get some other opinions on the matter. Brad E. Williams 23:21, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I didn't report this but if there is another revert I will. The Yankees' website seems to use "are." "April: The Highlanders are officially renamed the "Yankees" after moving to the Polo Grounds, home of the National League's New York Giants." (Highlanders being the first New York name of the Yankees) seen here. Michael Greiner 23:44, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, and Mr. Greiner, as I had said above, just because one form is used in the mass, does not make it correct. As if the case here, the social norm is "are", just as much as people incorrectly say "everyone has their opinion, etc (seeing how everyone is singular (each person), the pronoun would thus be a singular "his (or her)" and yet in mainstream, people use their, or they when it should be he/she, him/her, his/her, etc. As I also mentioned I have spoken to many people in the media about this - I am a Journalims major - and they have concurred that in the case with sports teams, I am correct in that it is neither singualr nor plural, rather subject to the conext of the sentnece. That is, it must agree with the subject. In the case of "the Yankes __ a sports team, the pronoun must agree not with Yankees (object), but "team" (subject), thus, "The Yankees is a sports team" is correct. It doesn't have to be mainstream - since mainstream incorrectly uses the singualr and plural forms - so long as it is correct. (this unsigned comment was added by Teamferby at 18:58, April 16, 2007)

FTR, I have a B.Sc. in Broadcast Journalism from the S.I. Newhouse School of Public Communications at Syracuse University. If I think about it, I may give them a call to see what they say. I do know that I used the "Yankees are" form in any sports-related stories that I took part in and was never told to phrase it otherwise, though that's hardly conclusive evidence. Brad E. Williams 00:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Were you talking to media people such as the Washington Post, (Headline reads: "Yankees Are Left Penned Up by O's" [1]) Los Angeles Times, (Headline reads: "Yankees are relieved in victory over A's" [2]) or USA Today? (Headline reads: "Yankees are good for baseball" [3]) Michael Greiner 00:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Michael, my apologies for accidentally deleting your latest comment. I was trying to add a note for Teamferby's last comment, which was unsigned, and in the process I deleted yours. Rough editing day for me, it seems. Brad E. Williams 00:29, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I figured that, no worries. Michael Greiner 00:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

AP Style Guide calls for the plural. While the guide itself is not freely available, from their "Ask the Editor": "Team names take plural verbs." Simon12 02:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

There has been some confusion on whether musical acts take a singular or plural verb. Does it depend on the name? Here are some that have come up in text recently — The Who, Arctic Monkeys, R.E.M. and The Beatles. Thanks for clarification! – from Bend, Ore. on Mon, Jul 17, 2006 "Musical acts" or bands such as the ones you cite, like sports team names, take plural verbs. What is the subject-verb agreement in regards to sports teams? For example, is it: "The Wetumpka Warriors elects a new board" or "The Wetumpka Warriors elect a new board?" – from Wetumpka, AL on Thu, Jun 29, 2006 Team names take plural verbs.

^ Referenced quote Michael Greiner 03:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

That is ok (about deleting my post). As for that B.Sc, I hope this was an error, but you do realise that Newhouse, being an institution, is a singualr entity itself, this as you said, "...may give them to see what they say, should read, "call it to see what it had to say," proving my point exactly. Again, you can call and you may get the "use yankees are" response. At Ryerson Univeristy (known for having the best jouralism program in Canada), my profs. also taught us to use "are" with the team name and "is" for the city of the team (I.E. New York is/ the Yankees are), as the "easy" way to differentiate between singualr and plural uses (differentiate between talking about the team or the players). Of course, just as I argued here, using one as a constant is ridiculous because if one knows the English language, he will realise whether one is referting to the team or the players based on the context of the sentence and the pronouns (Yankees are bad = (some of) the players are not good. Yankees is bad = the team istelf is bad). After much discussion I have finally gotten through to many of my Profs. thgouh they too give me the standard response "this is the way everyone else associates it because it's just easier. Well it's also "just easier" for me to bring my notes into my exam, but that's not allowed, is it. Just as there are rules to which to adhere with honesty policies in school (no cheating, thus no notes in an exam), there are rules to the English language. Why the ignorant of society think they can change it with no logic or raional is absurd. Teamferby 00:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I didn't delete your post, I signed it for you so that our comments weren't inadvertently mixed by people reading the thread. My use of "them" and "they" was shorthand; I have specific people at the school that I would contact. Perhaps (and this is purely speculation) the problem is that this particular issue is handled differently in Canada. By the way, you might want to check out the Newhouse School. The broadcast journalism program there is the most prestigious in the US. Brad E. Williams 01:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't mean to attack you or the school. I was just trying to make my point. It is definately not a Canadian thing. I can assure of that. If it is a more Canadian thing, then is shows the high quality that Canada produces. Still, most of Canada would agree with what you are saying, which is unfortante. I mean that in no disrespectful way, as I understand that you're only doing what you were taught. However, it's a matter of common sense and simple logic, really. I was taught to use "everyone has their opinion," and I quickly realised it was wrong, for example.Teamferby 01:26, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Your passion for this issue reminds me a bit of William Safire. I'm more of a Bob Costas. Brad E. Williams 01:35, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the external links section

I have noticed that the people who monitor this page for wikipedia have decided that external links for fan message boards will not be allowed to be put under external links. Is it possible that I can have some kind of explanation for this? I mean, the link(s) (as I have seen other people put fan forum links here too, besides myself) is legit and is a discussion for Yankees baseball. Why then can it not exist?

Danman1202 00:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

WP:EL CanbekEsen 00:44, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

10th under Links normally to be avoided: Links to social networking sites (such as MySpace), discussion forums or USENET. In short, it's policy. Michael Greiner 00:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I see. But I did read the entire link regarding the policy that was given to me. It says that these sites are "normally to be avoided" so while that is true, it is not set in stone, correct? All I'm saying here is I think that if a limited number of forums were added to the page as a whole it could only increase the value of the page. In fact I don't know how it would take away from the page. Trust me, I would never add something to a wiki page that would decrease its value in any way, shape, or form.

Danman1202 00:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not like linking websites such as forums and blogs, considering that it's an easy way for self-advertisement. CanbekEsen 01:07, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

1. The linked forums would more likely than not have a pro-Yankees POV (we want a neutral POV)

2. The forums force you to sign up to post which is against Links normally to be avoided #6.

3. The forums have no content that wouldn't be (or need to be) in the article if it was featured, against #1.

Also most of your edits appear to be adding these forums (all but one) --Michael Greiner 01:13, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I remember my edits as I have not made many. The other edit was the addition of Craig Hansen on the list of St. John's alumnus. I added the site more than once because I did not know the reason behind its deletion. Now I do. Thank you for your time.

Danman1202 01:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Retired number images

I made a new retired number template in Photoshop while I was doing the Celtics' retired numbers; Here is an example:

File:YanksRetired23.png

While the numbers currently on the page look nice, I feel that numbers based on the above template would be an improvement. However, I won't waste my time if people don't want the current numbers replaced, and I certainly don't want to step on any feet. I also did this image for #42:

File:YanksRetired42JR.png

Please let me know what you think. I will be happy to do the rest of the numbers if the change would be welcome. Brad E. Williams 02:21, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I now have all the images displayed on my user page. If there are no objections, I'll replace the current images in a day or two. Brad E. Williams 12:21, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Done. Brad E. Williams 14:05, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Whoa, whoa, whoa. That was fast, definitely faster than a day. First of all, it doesn't seem like a change in the regular numbers is needed. They were drawn to accurately depict the numbers as they appear in Yankee Stadium, and, unfortunately, the new batch aren't as accurate. The numbers are too small, the blue circle is too thick (with the white strip on the outside missing), the pinstripes don't match up right, and the whole thing has a bit of a fuzzy look, with some extra white edges. As for the Jackie Robinson number, that is an accurate depiction of the logo for Jackie Robinson day, but not of the number at the Stadium. The silver and light blue are gold and a darker blue on the logo. The most glaring difference, though, is the fact that the logo and a silver banner are depicted within a white circle the size of the rest of the numbers, while the logo is... well... just the logo.

While what was there wasn't perfect (the 7 never quite looked right, the curved text was just a thick line, and the banner was drawn wrong), it was a better depiction than the new stuff. I will definitely, though, try to use this logo to make the Jackie Robinson retired number look better, and I'll have to fix that banner. Also, do you think you could find a good flat depiction of the current Monument Park sign to replace what's there now? Thanks for everything. - Silent Wind of Doom 00:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I have reverted to the previous version and will delete the new images as soon as I figure out how. Sorry for the inconvenience. Brad E. Williams 00:21, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Nah, don't worry about it. Thanks for the enthusiasm and good job. It's better than the original version that was here, but the current version was the result of me sitting here for hours with pictures I took of each number trying to get as close as I can to what's there. I do wish, though, that I'd thought of finding the Jackie Robinson logo somewhere, rather than painstakingly trying to reproduce that thing (especially the starburst). As I said, a flat version of the Monument Park sign would be greatly appreciated. - Silent Wind of Doom 16:35, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Edit request

{{editprotect}} Could someone add the little box to this article that I've added to all the other baseball articles: It should look like this:

{{current sport-related|mini=1|2007 New York Yankees season}}

An example of how I did this elsewhere: [4] 64.178.96.168 18:56, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Done, thanks. 64.178.96.168 19:57, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Why? Why? It ruins the aesthetics of the article, and can be done with a simple line of text at the end of the lead that redirects you. I just tried to fix it, but it's still not 100%. Look at how they've put it here? Dropping this template right in the middle of the lead? It's a blight, and I say we leave it off the Yankees page in favor of a line of text. - Silent Wind of Doom 22:12, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Because. Because. In your opinion it ruins the aesthetics. In my opinion, your randomly-placed link in italic font is just as bad, if not worse. In my experience, the sort of template in question is usually placed in the top right corner. - Dudesleeper · Talk 01:37, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

The current event article infobox is usually on the top of the article, centered. Now, the baseball articles have a major infobox, and infoboxes go at the top left of an article unless a template claiming that something is lacking in the entire article or editing is somehow hampered. Look at presidents (Franklin Delano Roosevelt), wars (Vietnam War), baseball players (Reggie Jackson), or even other sports teams (Miami Dolphins) or stadiums (Shea Stadium). It's the way infoboxes are. The top line of that infobox is the name of the team, and that should definitely take preference over the current season. The problem with the template is that it doesn't count as a line. It sits on the left and slims down the table of contents considerably. If you have longer headings, then this can be a problem. To get the table below the template, you have to insert about 7 empty lines. This can be problematic, and this was changed here. If you put it at the beginning of the text, like was done here, but that ends up making two or three lines that are less than an inch, and you cannot say that looks good. - Silent Wind of Doom 04:43, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

But that ends up making two or three lines that are less than an inch. How low is your screen resolution? - Dudesleeper · Talk 09:15, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

The template was incredibly helpful, and it was placed in the correct place. By my screen resolution, the layout you used on Philadelphia Phillies is incredibly ugly - it totally messed up the screen. And on this one, there is absolutely no reason for you to remove the template. It's helpful and aids in navigation. Why did you remove it altogether? 64.178.96.168 16:38, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Okay. First of all, half an inch big was a bit of a hyperbole, but it's still cutting the line down a lot. Look at the Boston Red Sox article. You don't want your lead to look like that. It's an important part to the article. Secondly, totally messed up the screen? What are you looking at this thing with? There was a big open white space, and the template was placed there. It's the logical place to put it, of course. However, it seems that this is problematic on some computers, such as when the New York Sports template's pics started blending into the words. The infobox should be the more prominant than this little template. The problem is the fact that it aligns right and doesn't take up any lines. If we could have the disambiguation, the template, and then the infobox one over the other like that, it would be fine. Does anyone know how to edit the template or the formatting of it on the page? A recent event template, as well as almost all templates, usually takes this position anyway. - Silent Wind of Doom 23:29, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

PS. I removed it completely because one sentence in the lead is enough to cover it. You don't need a bulky box to point to the current season. It seems, though, that some people want the box, so we'll have to find a good way to incoporate it, as I mentioned in the previous text.

Per dudesleeper, I'm not seeing any big open white space. In fact, the new arrangement on my screen is incredibly ugly. I think your screensize might be too big. I would take a screenshot, but I don't know how on the linux box here in the library. I really think it should be moved back. And, failing that, we could remove the mini=1 argument, and just put it at the top so that it looks like other current events (see [5]). 64.178.96.168 23:36, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

When you say the current arrangement, do you mean the Phillies page or the Yankees page? On the Phillies page, the template has been moved back into favor over the infobox. On the Yankees page, the template has been completely removed and replaced with a simple line of text at the end of the lead. - Silent Wind of Doom 23:39, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I added the big box centered across the top of the page. If you can pare down the coding, please do so. I think the page looks good now and that this will be the most amendable solution for everyone. Michael Greiner 23:46, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

References

I know a thing or two about consistent referencing. I'll get on that.

Started the first 15, I'll do the rest later. Unless somebody else wants to. Sportskido8 23:08, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Travel-related transactions / Cuba

Has anyone else heard of this: Apparently, "in 2003, the Yankees paid the government $75,000 to settle a dispute that it conducted business in Cuba in violation of the embargo." Says so in this rather unrelated AP release. —AldeBaer 15:06, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Celebrity fans

I converted this into prose. The bulleted list was unencyclopedic and will only be a hinderance to getting this to GA-status in the long run. Sportskido8 17:14, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Sentence about YES

"The Yankees Entertainment and Sports (YES) Network launched in 2002, and served as the home of the New York Yankees during the baseball season, and the New Jersey Nets during the basketball season, making it the only regional sports network in New York City unlike MSG Network, SportsNet New York, and FSN New York." - From the Radio and television section.

Umm... what does this mean? It seems like someone deleted a key phrase in this sentence and it never got fixed. Are they the only regional sports network to do a certain thing, because the other three mentioned here are regional sports networks in New York City. - Silent Wind of Doom 20:34, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• I think that the phrase "year round" needs to be added after "only". Michael Greiner 20:52, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

New pictures

The new pics look great (spare the MLB sticker in most of them). I hope they're legal to use. Sportskido8 17:44, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

• They should be. They're all promotional pictures taken by the team and owned by the team and/or MLB. Those are legal according to the promotional pictures template. - Silent Wind of Doom 22:59, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Another GA-nom

I nominated the article for GA status, and I think it can pass this time. At least the prose is pretty good now. Sportskido8 07:04, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

This article certainly has the potential to be a good article but there are still a few issues I have with it.

1. I'm someone who doesn't follow baseball and as far as I know thing such as -

Notably, they have faced every winner of the National League pennant in the World Series except for the Houston Astros, who won their first pennant in 2005. No other team has come close to matching this feat.

I'm assuming that I can source this with a list of World Series matchups, because that's enough of a justification. I will add that. Sportskido8 17:23, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

and

some consider the team to be the best in the history of baseball

Referenced. Sportskido8 17:51, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

could be false. Make sure all material that could be challenged as inaccurate has a citation.

1. Some the language is a bit 'flowery' for an encyclopedic entry and could do with toning down.
2. All non-free images (including logos) require a fair use rationale.

Fixed this. Every image has one now. Sportskido8 17:19, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

This is certainly a very broadly written article with a lot of potential, I would suggest placing the article up for a peer review, which doesn't appear to have been done before, so that other editors can give their suggestions on improvements that could be made. Good luck. PanthersGirl 16:43, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

The article was placed up for peer review a while ago and many of the observations have been dealt with. I think you may be looking for FA-quality in a GA nomination, because the prose is very coherent and detailed and most of it is referenced where it needs to be. It would be better if this could have been placed on hold because these are minor things and I fixed a lot of them already. Sportskido8 17:53, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Logos

There are still some problems with the logos section. Several of the captions are incorrect - the current jersey logo, for example, does not date back to 1936, as seen in this 1942 game-used Rizzuto jersey[6]. Similarly, this card shows that the current print logo was used as a cap logo in the 1950s[7]. I know that sportslogos.net has them listed this way, but that site is obviously in error, errors we do not need to perpetuate here. I'm going to remove the dates from these items, leaving only how they are used now. If anyone can catalogue exactly when each logo was used for each purpose, we can add the dates back in. --Chancemichaels 15:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)Chancemichaels

The logo was designed as an insignia and was struck onto a medal of honor issued to the first NYC Police Officer shot in the line of duty. The Yankees adopted it as their logo in 1909. (from a floor plaque on the path to the three original monuments in Monument Park in Yankee Stadium. Dcrasno 12:45, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Ron Guidry did not write the book the "Bronx Zoo" it was Sparky Lyle

The team's name is often shortened to "the Yanks," and their most prominently used nickname is "the Bronx Bombers," or simply "the Bombers." A less used nickname is "the Pinstripers." The organization is sometimes referred to by detractors as "the Bronx Zoo" (echoing the title of Ron Guidry's book) Replace with Sparky Lyle's

CCC 144.226.173.68 13:39, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

• Fixed. Baseball Bugs 17:22, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Tom Brady is a fan, to add under "Celebrity Fans" section

Shouldn't that fact that Tom Brady is a New York Yankees fan be mentioned under the "Celebrity Fans" section of this article? It has certainly been noticed and noted that Brady has, even as late as the year 2007, wore a New York Yankees baseball hat in public.

Find a source saying that he is a fan and we'll put it in. But I am highly suspect of this because he was born in San Mateo, California, not too far from San Francisco. Sportskido8 19:22, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

No protection?

Why is this page not protected? It gets vandalized like at least 10 times every day. Sportskido8 19:30, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I have the same question. Michael Greiner 19:36, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

You need to find an admin who's also a Yankees fan, and ask him for advice on how to request semi-protecting the page for awhile. It's worth a try, anyway. Baseball Bugs 22:01, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Start at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. I think it's interesting that the page was protected until the last week. Michael Greiner 22:05, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

No surprise at all. Wikipedia administrators have this obsession with having things only short-term protected, as if the IP address abusers are going to just magically disappear after a week or two. This is the inevitable product of the wikipedia philosophy of "the encyclopedia that any moron can edit" (paraphrasing). Baseball Bugs 22:19, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I requested another sprotect. I guess they'll give it to us. Sportskido8 07:26, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Looks like User:Alison took care of it for the next month. Baseball Bugs 09:51, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Semi-protected for a period of 2 months, after which the page will be automatically unprotected. - and less of the "him" stuff :) - Alison ☺ 09:59, 24 June 2007 (UTC) (not a baseball fan, sorry!)

This article is WAAAY too long!

I just noticed that this article checks in at a little over 108kb in length, which is two and a half times what it should be (40 kb at the most). Shouldn't this article be split? Dknights411 04:43, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

It's been discussed before, but for an article of this magnitude, it's kind of hard to decide what to split off. So who knows. Sportskido8 16:16, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Definitely a good-sized article. But we're not talkin' the Phillies here. This is the most successful professional sports team in North American history, if not in the world. There is some room that I could see. The Yankees' history naturally tends to break out along "eras", and perhaps that info could be spun off into separate articles, with just a quick summary and a link in the main article. Likewise for stuff like retired numbers and monument park (which really should be in the same article). In fact, that would be a good one to start with before getting carried away. It could be linked from both the Yankees and the Yankee Stadium articles, and shorten both of those lengthy writeups. Of course, if you split stuff out, a week later some yokel will propose merging them. So it goes. d:) Baseball Bugs 16:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

The Los Angeles Lakers article split its history section into a new article, and I'm under the assumption that a few other teams do the same thing. It wouldn't hurt to create a seperate Yankees history article, don't you think? Dknights411 04:46, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

This topic is already being kind-of discussed on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball. I recommend you take it up there. Baseball Bugs 05:15, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Juventus FC have won more titles, for an example: 27 league championships, 9 Italian Cups, 2 Champions League victories, 1 Cup-Winners' Cup, and 3 UEFA Cups—a total of 42 significant trophies; they've also won two World Club Championships, which is two more than have ever been contested in baseball. Liverpool have 40 major titles (18 league championships, 7 FA Cups, 7 League Cups, 5 Champions Cups, and 3 UEFA Cups]]. Real Madrid have in turn won 30 league championships, 17 Copas del Rey, 9 Champions Cups, 2 UEFA Cups and a Spanish league cup for 59 major trophies, along with 3 World Club Championships. I don't think the Yanks will be catching up to all that anytime soon. Of course, the Yankees are hampered by being able to enter only one competition in a season, while soccer teams usually enter two, and sometimes three or four; Manchester United won three trophies in 1998-99: the FA Premier League championship, the FA Cup, and the UEFA Champions League, losing out only on the League Cup.

Just once, I'd like to see the Yanks take on, say, the Yomiuri Giants (29 titles) and the Kia Tigers (9 out of 22 championships) in some sort of tournament. The Yanks would probably wipe the floor with both clubs, but you can't say for sure until it's tested on the diamond. SWalkerTTU 10:37, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

The Yankees played the Yomiuri Giants in 2003 in Tokyo and won 6 to 2. You can't compare soccer titles to baseball championships. In soccer there are multiple titles a team can win in a single season. In baseball there is 1 champion per season. Also you commenting on the talk page as the article says the Yankees are the most successful team in North America. --Michael Greiner 14:06, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

One reason the article is too long is that one of the history sections is just too big. A crude analysis shows that most sections are 2 to 2.6 lines/year of coverage of the section. The exceptions: 1923-'35 at 4.1, '73-'81 at 5.1, '60-'64 at 7.9, '96-2000 at 8.6, and 2001-'07 at 11.3 lines/year of coverage. Now one could easily claim that these first 4 sections cover the most significant eras of Yankees history, all with multiple championships. Fair enough. The most recent section, with the most text/year of coverage of any section? No championships yet. There's a lot of fluff in this section, especially all the offseason arrivals and departures. Let's see if it can be whittled down a bit. Simon12 00:10, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

That's called "recentism", and it might be exacerbated by the fact that the Yankees have, in essence, "become" the old Red Sox, with resulting angst and wordiness by the team's followers. Baseball Bugs 00:32, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Well that's a little better, but there's still more to do.Simon12 01:35, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

I think that it's a fine sized article. As someone mentioned above, it's probably the greatest team in sports history, and it's only going to get longer. The more information, the better. Termin8er850 04:07, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

The Yanks are the greatest team in baseball history, not sports history. That would likely be Real Madrid; cf. my other post. SWalkerTTU 10:40, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Visible Tattoos

In the uniform and dress code section, there is an unreferenced mention of a ban on visible tattoos. Scott Proctor and Brian Bruney both have forearm tattoos that are not covered by a blue band. Anyone have a reference for that, so it can be reliably put into the past tense, otherwise it should be removed. Jsh726 18:52, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

winningest

somebody put "The Yankees have been Major League Baseball's winningest franchise" Now I dont think winningest is a word...is it? correct me if im wrong please.Vandalfighter101 05:37, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

• It's non-standard English, but it's in common usage. [8] Baseball Bugs 00:22, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Someone said that the Yankees only places in 2nd place twice in the Yankees early years in the 1900s. This is incorrect. The Yankees finished in 2nd place in 1904, 1906, and 1910.

• You're right. 1904, 92-59, 1 1/2 games behind the Red Sox. 1906, 90-61, 3 games behind the White Sox. 1910, 88-63, 14 1/2 games behind the A's. Baseball Bugs 00:22, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Split

I spun the Bleacher Creatures section off into its own article (it was suggested that it should be shortened in the peer review, so I figured this would be a good idea). It makes this one shorter, and it also gives an important topic its own spotlight, I guess. If anyone wants to help out with that one it would be appreciated. Sportskido8 08:55, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Images

Many of the images used in this article are inappropriate. Some lack fair use rationales, which I have tagged. Others have inappropriate fair use rationales (at least one), which I am 99% sure should be deleted. Image:Casey_Stengel_Time_Cover.jpg's license states, "Note: It is not acceptable to use images with this tag in the article of the person or persons depicted on the cover, unless used directly in connection with the publication of this image. Such usages will be removed." I'm pretty sure that's saying it can't be used in the way it is being used in this article. These need to be corrected in order for the article to retain GA. Lara♥Love 02:48, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

should their be a section on how the Yankees change the business of baseball

somewhere were they mention the Msg Deal, addidas deal, and the yes network.

Good article review

The article has been delisted per the discussion, now in archive, found here. Contact User:TonyTheTiger on or after August 9 and then renominate at WP:GAC and he will review. Regards, Lara♥Love 16:46, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Jackie Robinson

Isn't number 42 retired by the yanks? >-{ Brandonrush }-<

Not yet as Mariano Rivera is still wearing the number as part of a grandfather clause. Currently it is only honored. --Michael Greiner 16:25, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I always thought it was retired even though Rivera wore it...my fault. >-{ Brandonrush }-<