Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Dutch supercentenarians

List of Dutch supercentenarians

List of Dutch supercentenarians (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

I am also nominating the following pages for the same reason:

List of British supercentenarians

List of American supercentenarians

List of French supercentenarians

Examples of "non-encyclopedic cross-categorizations" which are specifically excluded by policy as Wikipedia is not a directory. None of the articles give any evidence that the linking of the age status and nationality status is in anyway notable. Guest9999 (talk) 00:37, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

• Delete all: (EC) Reading through the pages though, they are almost completely unsourced anyways. I agree with the nom, a bit directory-like, maybe also an indiscriminate collection of information. BUT there is already an article full of people who achieved a long lifetime. - Rjd0060 (talk) 00:50, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
• Keep all and reference better. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 07:31, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

• Agree Indeed, this article is actually only a few days old. It was made by a disinterested admin over a compromise over deletion. The head person in charge of this article is actually banned from Wikipedia. However, the starting admin didn't suggest editing/improving the article as an alternate, so it may very well be it doesn't matter if work construction for this article is under way. Neal (talk) 18:14, 20 November 2007 (UTC).

• Keep There are 77 supercentenarians worldwide per Gerontology Research Group. They could be combined into a single article, or we could identify some other way to group them, but country seems as reasonable as any other alternative grouping. Alansohn (talk) 07:57, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

• Comment Sorry, this article isn't exclusively about living supercentenarians. In other words, the Gerontology Research Group would have about a thousand dead supercentenarians worldwide. Neal (talk) 17:27, 20 November 2007 (UTC).

• Keep. The subject is notable (supercentenarianism), and the list is clearly defined (older than 110, from the Netherlands), so I don't see how it's indiscriminate. Aecis^Brievenbus 10:34, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Comment List of living supercentenarians already exists and there are individual articles on all the notable people on the list. Are additional lists grouping these peopleby nationality really neccessary. There is no evidence of sources whihc show that the suybject of supercentenarians of any natioanlity is a notable one. All the articles can really be used for is including information on non-notability based on the idea that simply being very old and of a certain nationality makes someone notabile. [[Guest9999 (talk) 11:28, 20 November 2007 (UTC)]]

Reply Sorry, List of living supercentenarians are for living people, only. Neal (talk) 17:04, 20 November 2007 (UTC).

• Keep per reasons provided above. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 16:50, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

• How can this subject of supercentenarians be notable if not many people know about them? The problem is, the subject of people over 110.0 isn't as notable as we would like them to be. Neal (talk) 18:15, 20 November 2007 (UTC).

• Delete all and split the articles mentioned. Brown Haired Girl created the articles because she though that they didn't establish their notability. They did. If this can become more than an indiscriminate collection of information with sources, then we can keep. ''[[User:Kitia|Kitia]]'' (talk) 16:53, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

• Reply The problem is, not every individual is able to get their own article. Which is why the Jeanne Calment and such have a link to "main article." This is to give the oldest person in country a chance to get mentioned. In other words, some of these supercentenarians can have their own article that make up a sentence, so those individual articles will likely fail nobility. Neal (talk) 17:06, 20 November 2007 (UTC).

• Why not just have a list of all supercentenarians with brief detals - nationality, age and date of birth (and death if applicable), linking out to full articles on notable individuals. It could be easily achieved simply by expanding List of living supercentenarians. Supercentenarians is clearly a notable topic, these cross categorisations are not. [[Guest9999 (talk) 18:45, 20 November 2007 (UTC)]]

• Reply I already see that 26 of the 105 living supercentenarians in list of living supercentenarians already link to their own article. Were you suggesting making more? The article already has date of birth, nationality, age, etc. Like I said, not all of them could pass AfD. Neal (talk) 20:38, 20 November 2007 (UTC).

• Reply sorry a bit off topic there, my point was that notable SC's have their own articles and there already is a general list article for ease of navigation of these articles (if it is expanded to include the deceased). All that these articles seem to be is an attempt to lower the threshold of notability and verification by creating an unencyclopaedic cross catagorisation. [[Guest9999 (talk) 21:33, 20 November 2007 (UTC)]]

• Reply Hmm, well list of living supercentenarians could not be expanded to list the deceased (without an article name change). And I would consider that article to be a list or directory, not the ones nominated for deletion. Neal (talk) 20:53, 20 November 2007 (UTC).

• I would have agreed, however there does seem to be an emerging consensus - from various AfDs - that lists of members of notable groups can be acceptable articles. This is somewhat supported by Wikipedia is not a directory, which states: "This provision is not intended to encompass lists of links to articles within Wikipedia that are used for internal organization or to describe a notable subject.". See Lists of Jews for an example of directory type article that survived AfD. [[Guest9999 (talk) 21:33, 20 November 2007 (UTC)]]

• Ah, so not every supercentenarian in this (4) AfDs have their own Wikipedia article, so it does pass the Wikipedia is not a list/directory policy (pass for deletion). Wonder if BrownHairedGirl (article starter) thought of that. Neal (talk) 21:55, 20 November 2007 (UTC).

• Neutral, as creator of these articles. I will restrict my comments to explaining why I created these lists, and let others decide their fate.

As NealIRC has already explained, I created these lists to merge some of the many articles on supercentenarians which do not meet WP:BIO, and as already noted many of them are dead, and as such are not included in the List of living supercentenarians. Some of the articles were unreferenced, some had only one reference to non-trivial coverage in a WP:RS reliable source, and others had references only to the name-and-dates entries on the lists at http://ww.grg.org or to the archives of a closed (signup only with moderator's approval) Yahoogroups mailing list run by Robert Young (who vets new members in case they are "spying").

I am not by inclination a deletionist, and have believed that merger was acceptable an as a compromise solution in cases such as this, but am happy to be corrected if that is not the case.

There is a difference between the notion that an individual supercentenarian is inherently notable and the presumption behind these list, that notability may be more easily demonstrated for the subject of very old people in a particular country than for each individual. These articles do contain some substantial references, and more are available; but whether they are reasonably capable of meeting the notability standards is something which I will leave to others to assess.

I have, as they say, no axe to grind here, and I can live happily with either a keep or delete outcome. However, I will watch the outcome of this AfD with great interest. If these lists are kept, I will continue to merge those articles which do not yet demonstrate notability; but if the lists are deleted, I will {{prod}} or {{afd}} any articles in Category:supercentenarians which do not meet notability criteria in WP:BIO. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:52, 20 November 2007 (UTC)