Talk:Deathcore

This article was the subject of a previous vote for deletion. An archived record of the discussion can be found here.

--Are you kidding me? someone actually took all this time to make a page about a completely made-up, fabricated, hypothetical genre? there is one band that fits this genre, but even then, only loosely, and that's Job For A Cowboy. and even so, it still seems more accurate to label them as what they really are: a mix of Death Metal and Hardcore/Metalcore. Now, I'm not much of an editor here... i have only done very limited work, and even got in trouble once... so you're more than entitled to discard my opinion... but i say trash it, it's a waste of server space. - AeturnalNarcosis 7.Aug.2007

Waste of server space? Man you have a bug up your ass. Listen, deathcore does exist, and Job For A Cowboy weren't the only band. Please refer to the list of notable deathcore band presented lovingly at the bottom of the page. Listen to the bands. Learn. That is all.

Uhm... Bring Me The Horizon, Despised Icon, Kataklysm, Beneath The Sky, Animosity, Black Dahlia Murder and Glass Casket are all Deathcore. Deathcore is a mix of "Death Metal" and "Post-hardcore". ≈ Maurauth ^(Ravenor) 16:14, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

this is off topic, but Kataklysm is definitely NOT "deathcore" or whatever other made-up genres these cretins want to apply to death metal bands that don't sound like Deicide or Cannibal Corpse. Kataklysm is death metal, end of story. as for the others, animosity and beneath the sky, i'd say are a mix of hardcore/metalcore and death metal.... and believe me, the black dahlia murder is NOT "deathcore" ... they're just melodic death metal.

back on topic: point is, it's useless to keep creating new genres.... there will always be bands who mix different styles... if we keep creating new genres for every band that mixes 2 styles, we'll end up with thousands of genres, each one specific to only a couple of bands. just imagine, if a band comes out that uses extremely fast blast beat drums with high pitched riffage AND death grunts, screaches, harcore yelling, and rapcore vocals about very gloomy subjects.... will we have to make up a whole new genre called "brutalblackeneddoomrapdeathgrindmetalcore"? to be frank, it's fucking retarded. it has to stop somewhere before it gets even more ridiculous than it is. AeturnalNarcosis 9.Aug.2007

so, when you all get bored of hardcore and make it even more hardcore, are you going to call it corecore? - AN 17.aug

So, uh basically this genre is metalcore but slightly more influenced by standard death metal and not melodic death metal? Or what? I'm honestly kind of confused about why none of these bands couldn't fit into another subgenre of metal. - Razorhead 9 August 2006

This article is a bit to definite for a style that is just begining to emerge. The term was thrown around in the mid-90s but had no clear band that formed or led the scene. To this day, bands like Despised Icon and Through the Eyes of the Dead are only called Deathcore because the fit into both categories and are too extreme to be considered metalcore. Speaking of which, the references to heavy metal are rather redundent as death metal is an obvious subgenre to it. Also bands like Ion Dissonance are way to core to be deathcore. I'll get around to editing the actual page on day.--Daevin 05:10, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Hardcore isn't a kind of Heavy Metal. I feel like this is just a made up genre, as The Black Dahlia Murder is usually called melodic death metal.

Just letting you know, Kataklysm is a HUGE influence on the deathcore. Probably the most well-known at that too. Should add them.

so because a couple bands try to emulate kataklysm's PURE DEATH METAL sound, but with minor metalcore influences, that makes kataklysm "deathcore?" i never would have thought this requires repetition, but kataklysm is death metal. simple as that. their older albums had a little bit of a black metal sound to it, but not enough to classify them as 'black-death hybrid' or whatever, and certainly no 'metalcore' or 'hardcore' influence. period. AeturnalNarcosis

This article is so wrong and pointless my teeth ache. Death metal with more muted drumwork? Please. And last time i checked, Cryptopsy was brutal/technical death metal. Gofur 18:28, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

There are a few bands that don't belong there. For intance The Black Dahlia Murder is melodic death metal and not deathcore. The same goes for Through The Eyes of The Dead. And omfg especially not See You Next Tuesday as they are more like noiscore/grindcore with death growls. Deathcore is always brutal, and is closely related to Death/Grind, but you can tell the differance. The bands that I strongly feel are Deathcore are Animosity, All Shall Perish, Suicide Silence, and Job For A Cowboy.

I think this artcile should be revised, mainly concerning actual musical attributes. BREE on the palm mutes? whats that about? theres proabably palm mutes in more Deathcore riffs than not. --Xdiabolicalx 19:41, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I Agree, but know nothing about the genre. If you feel you can improve it, please be bold. Rockpocket 22:53, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Yo! you (the author of this page) has misspelled the band name Neaera, it says "Naera" (sorry if i dont know really how to post a discussion message in the right way, i'm a n00b on wiki ;))

Personally, I would describe Deathcore as a more brutal form of Metalcore, in the same way that Death Metal is a more brutal form of thrash. But the term Deathcore, or Death Metalcore, is definately a separate genre, and respected metal publication Metal Hammer has made multiple references to it in conjunction to Bring Me The Horizon, All Shall Perish, Glass Casket, Job for a Cowboy and Beneath the Sky. 89.242.148.102 17:18, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with whoever said JFAC was deathcore, they've got bree and all, put Job for a Cowboy up whoever can edit the article.

<the guy who just edits the talk page and asks for requests for more experienced people to do stuff

Deathcore doesn't even exist, it's some moronic name made up by people on LastFM. Metalcore is the same crap it was and will always be the same crap, stop trying to make it sound like something it isn't by sticking death on the front of 'core', which is almost inevitable when it comes to hardcore subgenres trying to make themselves sound unique, when in reality they are just like hundreds of metalcore bands before them.

Abscess, Unseen Terror

Abscess

In the liner notes of Abscess' Thirst for Blood, Hunger for Flesh, Chris Reifert makes note of Danny Coralles, "laying down the deathcore gospel" on "Fucking Hell," and the band consider themselves a hardcore punk/death metal mix.

From wikipedia's grindcore "Grindcore, also known as grind, is an evolution of hardcore punk, most commonly associated with death metal and crust punk." If they are death metal/hardcore punk they are Grindcore, Deathcore doesn't exsist outside of a need of metal bands to appear edgy without meaning (c.v. Oriental Metal, Razorgrind, Cybergrind) Atechi 20:29, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

As the quote says, "Grindcore...is an evolution of hardcore punk." Early Napalm Death, Terrorizer, early Impetigo, and other bands of the grindcore genre were not death metal, having more of a hardcore punk sound with the occasional crossover riff. However, over the years, grindcore has been influenced by death metal, just as death metal has been influenced by grindcore, which is why grindcore is "commonly associated with death metal." 68.47.85.89 17:16, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Deathcore, like metalcore is in reality very distant from hardcore punk. That's like saying that all punk+metal crossovers should be called thrash, and therefore grindcore, metalcore, and sludge don't exist. We're talking about metalcore bands that have stopped emulating In Flames and late Carcass in exchange for wanting to sound more like Devourment and Suffocation. Same metalcore culture and sound, but with a highly definitive brutal death metal edge, yet all the while not becoming brutal death metal itself.

Unseen Terror

In the liner notes to Unseen Terror's Human Error rerelease, the band chose to display a 1988 Deathrash Mayhem review in which the writer calls them a "deathcore/crossover" band, then goes on to say, "'Crossover'? Yes, their sound is just mixture of hardcore and death metal, I think." Add to that the fact that Mitch Dickinson says, "The extreme metal elements were still very prominent, but there was a definite hardcore influence. Shane and myself had become regular faces on the U.K. hardcore scene (Very unusual for metal fans at the time) and this involvement had influenced the song writing. I had also been playing guitar with HERESY as well as UNSEEN TERROR this year so a mixture of metal and hardcore seemed natural" 172.128.12.99 07:14, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Look above, Death/Hardcore mixes tend to be Grindcore, in fact unless someone can give a list of actual criteria (not involving "feels, or sounds, or 'softer drums') that diffrenciate grindcore from deathcore I am inclined to state this article needs to be deleted. Atechi 20:29, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think you know what grindcore is, my good man (or woman). From the death metal article: "Grindcore is considered by some to be an even more extreme variant of death metal and hardcore punk. However, many fans of grindcore and music historians would place it in a genre by itself, since the genre historically developed in parallel to death metal (both developed in the 1980s, death metal from thrash metal and grindcore from hardcore punk), each influencing the development of the other, but with early grindcore having a much more obvious hardcore punk, crossover thrash, and anarcho-punk influence." 68.47.85.89 17:16, 11 November 2006

Once again, stop feeling bitter over your ignorance of this topic. Think of the outcome of say perhaps, Warzone or Terror attempting death metal. Sure it's metalcore, but it's not the gothenburg-drenched shit from three years ago. This is a horribly deformed but brand new monster. And the guy before me's right.. you don't seem to know the first thing about grindcore. Way to overgeneralize. seethingnuclearchaos 16:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Can we just delete this? Deathcore is a useless genre due to the fact that it's modern metalcore.

Muted drumwork

"... deathcore typically contains muted drumwork ..." - What is muted drumwork? - Quirk 15:04, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Made up term. Muted would imply a lack of sound (muting the tv), so a muted drum work would imply a lack of sound from the drums. (infact verbatim from Wikitionary)

"Adjective

mute (no comparative or superlative)

Silent; not making a sound.

(of a person) Not having the power of speech."

So please deathcore masters explain how you can have Muted that is Silent drums.Atechi 20:32, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I think it means the drumming isn't as cymbal-heavy as in other forms of metal. I don't know. But I do know drummers mute cymbals when they want to cut a hit short. 68.47.85.89 17:16, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

one should know that using denotative definition of a word to describe something in music doesn't work. A palm mute on a guitar doesn't take away the sound, neither does a mute on any brass instrument. Muted drums are in the same category.

Seriously, that was the worst argument I've ever heard, so please stop trying to flaunt your intelligence by quoting the dictionary. -WD 02:37, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the above, it's likely to be drumming that uses large amounts of double bass and snare hits, and cymbals being silenced right after being hit. ≈ Maurauth ^{(nemesis~☆)} 12:22, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

If you don't think Glass Casket, Jobforacowboy and Animosity are deathcore

then dear god you are NOT qualified at all for this subject

ok, well i have listened to Animosity and JFAC (no clue who Glass Casket is) and i still have no clue what deathcore is. so i guess they are just extreme metal bands for the time being. metalhead 03:31, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Deathcore is a mixture of hardcore and death metal. The vocals in Animosity are more on the death metal side, but the "gang chants" are typical hardcore. Breakdowns also come from hardcore, but the more complex guitar and drum work in many of Animosity's songs are death metal based. That's pretty much deathcore in a nutshell: death metal with breakdowns, gang chants, and the occasional 2-step part. BTW Glass Casket was pretty metalcore last I checked, I don't know if their newer music is any different.

Deathcore is a mixture of metalcore and Death metal, with a few hardcore influences (like gang chants). The riffing in deathcore is something unlike death metal and metalcore, yet very similar to both. Deathcore is death metal influenced metal core with breakdowns, gang chants, and the occasional 2-step. And I agree, Glass Casket is metalcore. Job For A Cowboy (DOOM ep, their new stuff is more strictly death metal) and Animosity are classic deathcore--as are Suicide Silence, Knights of the Abyss, and countless other myspace bands. 72.155.113.42 16:34, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Glass Casket doesn't sound like a majority of modern deathcore, but they should definitely be mentioned as one of the earlier acts to start producing this sound.

SFU, Despied Icon

Both iconic deathgrind (SFU being a Goregrind/Deathgrind) bands, and are not Deathcore. Atechi 20:30, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Six Feet Under is a death metal band, not any sort of grind. Bringer of Blood did have a strong hardcore punk sound at times, though, which is why many have called them "deathcore." 68.47.85.89 17:16, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Six Feet Under is Death Metal, period. Are The Beatles heavy for putting out Helter Skelter? No. Just because a song here or there may have influence from another genre, that doesn't mean they're linked. Chris Barnes (from what I gather) left Cannibal Corpse because he wanted lyrically driven songs, and the rest, like Alex Webster, wanted more of a musical approach, lyrics second. SFU takes Barnes' stance and CC since he left has been all instrumentally driven. SFU is Death metal, and I suggest they're removed from Deathcore. Vellocet Malchickawick

Popularity

Deathcore is not some uber underground genre with zero popularity. Many deathcore bands have 10000+ friends on myspace, can feature on huge tours after releasing only a couple of demos etc. The truth is that deathcore is one of the more mainstream versions of death metal, mainly because of the fact that it relies heavily on metalcore style breakdowns which are popular at the moment. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.229.10.161 (talk) 02:27, 30 December 2006 (UTC).

Some thoughts on Deathcore

It might help to elaborate on to what extent Death metal and metalcore had on this style. Like which bands from each influenced deathcore. The page has improved alot from what it was but it still could use a little more detail because its relationship to its two parent genres is confusing. From the outset you can hear some death metal influence but it still sounds very different from more traditional stuff. However it seems like the style is more closely related to metalcore. If you go by the conventions deathcore bands seem to follow such as: hardcore style breakdowns, two-stepping parts, some although not many melodic parts similar to bands like As I lay dying and Darkest Hour, and even some hardcore style shout-outs. The pig squeels and inhaled gurgle like lows I would say are death metal or goregrind inspired. As far as the growling is inconcered it still sounds more like extra low metalcore/hardcore shouting. Rather than what you might hear coming from your average death metal band. Im in one way trying to insult deathcore or its fans. These are just some thoughts I had and hope everyone else has something to add too. Cause I think the page could do a better job describing the sound. Halfeatencorpse 01:08, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

---

Deathcore is a style of music that was born out of the metalcore scene (which was, effectively, born out of the hardcore scene), meaning most bands that are labeled as deathcore are simply playing what they know (metalcore) with a death metal influence (all of this you've mentioned, I know). However, unlike other genres, which have their own distinctions in sound that make the genre unique, modern Deathcore hasn't been around long to truly and concretely have its own distinctions (it doesn't help that most of the bands in the genre have similar sounds). It remains simply as death metal influenced metalcore, and it only receives notability in being a genre because it's so many bands have that sound. While many bands may fuse genres, a large (huge, search check out the list of top indie death metal bands on myspace) amount of bands have chosen to fuse these two genres, resulting in a thousand myspace bands with a genre listing of Death Metal/Metal/Hardcore, going back to the deathcore=death metal plus metalcore.

In summary, describing the genre as death metal influenced metalcore is the only way.

Also, as far as what bands inspired the genre, I would say Job For a Cowboy is extremely notable in bringing the genre to the mainstream (the mainstream being the teenage music scene). While they certainly were not the first, they were the most popular, as well as most stereotypical (chug chug breakdowns, death growls, pig squeals, and highs all in one) deathcore bands at its start.

Just my two cents. -WD 02:26, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Uh...

This article is totally unreferenced, and a heck of a lot looks like OR. Cleanup please?-K@ngie^meep! 23:01, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Well it's hard to provide references for a relatively new genre, when the only reliable sources are magazines describing certain bands, you have to go by those bands style of music and see what's common between all of them, which will of course sound like OR. ≈ Maurauth ^{(nemesis~☆)} 12:39, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

I think we could manage to at least get three or four online references, though. I'll try, when I have the energy.Karen_Carpentry

Is It Me...

Or is deathcore just death metal with breakdowns? All these "deathcore" bands are just melo-/tech-death with breakdowns. Gas.mask.man 07:05, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Um, it can be melodeath with breakdown is just metalcore. The bands listed are pretty much mathcore or hardcore+death metal.

"The bands listed are preety much mathcore or hardcore+death metal" That's exactly what Deathcore is, hardcore + death metal... ≈ Maurauth ^(Ravenor) 17:46, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

That is really...not true. Killwhitneydead is a grind band, The Faceless is a tech-death band, and so is From a Second Story Window. Most of these bands listed can fall into the genres of Death Metal (All Shall Perish, Despised Icon) or metalcore (Through the Eyes of the Dead)...they just have some from the other trait. How does that qualify an entirely new genre that is made up and is only given further claims it exists because of this article. Gas.mask.man 08:07, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Being ignorant of developments in regional scenes and sounds doesn't disqualify the existence of a regional scene or burgeoning sound. It's not very hard. Search myspace for the top "grindcore" bands, and go through the maze of musical fail that is the steadily developing deathcore sound. It exists, its been extant for at least 5 years, and The Faceless are not tech-death. Cleary, to say that, you don't know anything about what you're criticizing or laying authority over. Listen to Gorod, Gorguts, and Spawn of Possession, then come back and tell me this metalcore tripe is "tech-death".

It exists, stop griping. Google is your friend.Karen_Carpentry 04:14, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

This article needs to be deleted

If the genre exists, then how come no one can cite a proper source? You know a page should be deleted when MA is the most reliable source (MA cannot be used because it is user edited)...--Wick3dd 21:07, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Here's some homework for you. Follow the method in the above discussion that I suggested. Listen to the popular bands on the first three pages of the search results on myspace. Then listen to boring modern death like Decapitated and Devourment. Then check the Red Chord and Dying Fetus. Then listen to the bands listed on the "list of deathcore bands" article. Compare, contrast, rinse, wash, repeat, attain clarity.Karen_Carpentry

That is not proper sourcing. Also, your own POV is not necessary here. Whether you think a band is boring or not adds nothing to this topic.--Wick3dd 07:56, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm aware. And like I keep reiterating, I'm more than happy to have someone else improve the article as long as information is not lost. Actually, I'm sort of asking you to. It needs a lot of refinement, but it is what it is for the time being. And that "boring" comment was just a non-sequitur, try to not be so anal about a wikipedia discussion page. POV is more than appropriate for this section.Karen_Carpentry

Okay. Was not meaning to be accusatory. I will see what I can do, but I think it will be hard to find anything sourced. That deathcore exists is not the question, it is whether or not it is notable yet. --Wick3dd 08:08, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Sources used for AfD:

• metaleater.com Ciaran Meeks: "What is 'Deathcore' you ask? Well, in today's age of more sullen-faced 'cores' than you can shake a walletchain at, 'Deathcore' is apparently a mixture of Death Metal, Hardcore, and Grind, all mixed 'n mashed together to create a brutal and extreme 'new' hybrid".
• allmusic.com Alex Henderson: "The term is deathcore, ... What is deathcore? ..., it's essentially metalcore, which isn't to say that Burning Skies is an exact replica of American metalcore bands like Brick Bath, Hatebreed, and Throwdown -- they're similar, certainly, but not identical. Drawing on both death metal and hardcore, Burning Skies' vocals fluctuate between the tortured screaming that metalcore is known for and the deep, guttural growls of death metal. Arguably, deathcore as practiced by Burning Skies and similar bands is a European variation of American metalcore. But whether you choose to describe Murder By Means of Existence as deathcore or metalcore -- and perhaps both terms are applicable -- there is no getting around the fact that this is a very nasty, vicious, bruising sledgehammer of a CD."
• mtv.com/news Alexandre Erian: "I don't understand why people take labels so seriously," he continued. "I guess you could call us 'deathcore,' or 'death metal,' or 'death metalcore,' or 'death metal with metalcore influences,' or 'metalcore with death-metal influences.' I like to let the music speak for itself."
• List of deathcore bands as defined by metal-observer.com
• popmatters.com Adrien Begrand: "such deathcore exercises as "Two Inches from a Main Artery" and "Beneath Dying Skies" combined Cannibal Corpse-style blasting with the melodic intricacy of Morbid Angel"

The allmusic source is good. We can use the allmusic source to back up the definition. Kameejl ^(Talk) 09:15, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

New revision looks really goodKaren_Carpentry (talk)

Brilliant. Thanks to all who contributed. I am constantly watching for vandalism and trolls and will continue to do so.--Wick3dd (talk) 03:26, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Mastodon

Is'nt Mastodon considered deathcore? At least it sounds very deathcorish to me.