Talk:Paula Abdul

Paula wasn't anorexic..she was bulimic..

Someone who is a big Paula Abdul fan has obviously visited this page and altered it's phrasing in a non-neutral way. "Extremely talented singer..." etc... I am making some changes and reversions. Pacian 18:44, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Fanboys continue to get into the article and fill it with flattering non-NPOV comments. I'm reverting AGAIN. Pacian 17:19, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, I rewrote many aspects of the article to remove such wording, and so far, it looks like the subsequent editors like Wasted Time R are continuing to improve the article, so don't worry about it. Trolls and vandals tend to eventually get tired and move on. Nightscream 09:24, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Gay Icon Project

In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 19:58, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Why would she be a part of the "Gay Icon" project? She's not gay... 131.30.121.23 17:15, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Sephardi?

Is Paula Abdul Sephardi or Mizrahi? —Ashley Y 02:26, 2005 Apr 13 (UTC)

Who cares? A jew is a jew is a jew. Shes a jew. face it. 24.141.214.87 20:24, 2 May 2005 (UTC).

Usually if a Jew is indigenous to an Arab country, s/he is a Mizrahi.

Sephardim, strictly speaking, are Jews of Spanish and Portuguese origin, including their descendants in many parts of the world after they were expelled from the Iberian peninsula in 1492. Most fled to Turkey, the Balkans, the Netherlands and the Americas, but some Sephardim also fled to Arab countries (especially Morocco) where they joined pre-existing local native Mizrahi communities. So sometimes, Jews from Arab countries could be Sephardic.

In the case of Moroccan Jews, most Maroccan Jews are Sephardic, not Mizrahi, because the number of Sephardim that fled to that country (due to its proximity to Spain) outnumbered the native Mizrahi Jews. Because of their numbers they set up their own communities. In Paula's case, however, her country of origin is Syria, and although a few Sephardim did settle there, her surname is Abdul, which is obviously Arabic in origin. Sephardim possess Spanish or Portuguese surnames (Díez, Villarreal, Castro, etc), much like Ashkenazim possess German, Polish and other Easter European surnames (Bernheimer, Furstenberg, Steinovitz, etc.).

Paula's appearance is another factor. Although it hasn’t been suggested by anyone, her appearance is obviously not typical of Ashkenazi Jews (White Northern and Eastern European appearance) nor Beta Israel Jews (Black Ethiopian appearance), but her phenotype isn’t typical of Sephardim either (Southern European appearance). She looks indigenous Middle Eastern, a "brown Jew". Personally, her appearance is such that, I think she could even pass for a mulatta, much like many other Arabs.

My bet is that she is Mizrahi. Perhaps whoever wrote that she is Sephardic was using the term in its ignorant euro-centric Israeli definition- anyone that isn't Ashkenazi is called "Sephardi", chuck-'em-all-in-the-same-basket attitude.

As for user "24.141.214.87", and his/her addition of "Who cares? A jew is a jew is a jew. Shes a jew. face it.", I have only one word for you; Whatever! Al-Andalus 17:02, 17 August 2005 (UTC).

Two thoughts.

First, it is certainly true that historically and most accurately Sephardic refers to Jews descended from those Jews who left what is now Spain and Portugal, especially due to the Inquisition. But there are two main problems with your assertion. One is that the broader use of Sephardic to refer to most Jews whose families' histories have in the last 500 years coincided with Arab or Muslim territories is well-established, and not controversial. The other is that the family histories of "Syrian" (Shami) Jews do in many cases tend to have included modern-day Spain or Portugal, due in large part to the migration of Sephardic Jews to Syria post-Inquisition and their gradual integration into the community there. This is well-documented, but see http://www.jewishgen.org/SefardSIG/AleppoJews.htm for a sample discussion. (As it happens, many Ashkenazi Jews also became absorbed into the Syrian Jewish communities over the centuries, hence the prevalence of the names Ashkenazi, Eskenazi, etc among Syrian Jews, signifying a forebear who had come to Syria as an Ashkenazi Jew. But that is another story!)

In light of this, in order to recognize the correctness of Al-Andalus's point re: it not being possible to pinpoint a "Sephardic Jewish" origin to the family in question, and in order therefore to adopt a neutral point of view, I have edited that part of the article to simply say "Syrian Jew". Those who wish to classify Syrian Jews more precisely will have to work out their disagreement, and the tangled roots of history, before being able to subclassify further: I trust this will be satisfactory to all.

Second, and this is an aside, I believe it to be factually incorrect to talk about an appearance being "typical" of Ashkenazi Jews insofar as there is great diversity in the appearance of Ashkenazi Jews. I similarly believe it to be incorrect to lump Northern (presumably Western) and Eastern European Ashkenazi Jews together, particularly regarding the kinds of amtters discussed here (see Sander Gilman's work generally on the historic relationship between Ostjuden and Western Jews) -- this is a post-WW2 construct which is unhelpful in this context. And I believe it incorrect to talk about "White ... appearance" due, again, to the diversity in Ashkenazi Jews and, of course, in that of other ethnic groups who may or may not fit with the U.S construct "White" (Italians, Lebanese, Greeks, etc).

I don't know the references in this biography but any arguments based on her surname are moot if, in fact, her father Harry Abdul was adopted in Syria. I mean, does anyone try to argue that Donovan McNabb is Irish? (Not that he was adopted, but last name ethnologies are a silly pastime) And if her mother was French and Jewish, that normally means Ashkenazi, so I think it's safe to say she is both. JesseRafe 03:57, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I wanted to add that I was confused at the part of this article that says she is of Sephardic and Ashkenazic heritage, yet she is not mixed-race. No, she's not part black, but being both Sephardic and Ashkenazic would make her a racially mixed Jew.

Father's ancestry

• I don't think her mother is actually French in any way. She's from Winnipeg. Her last name is Rykiss, a common East European Ashkenazi surname. I'm not sure why she was called "French Canadian" - maybe she comes from a French-speaking area of Winnipeg, or her parents were some of the East European Jews who immigrated to Quebec? But I would doubt that they are French Jews.
• My question is, though, do we know for sure that her father is Jewish at all? Even by adoption? No question that her mother is, but even the editor of Jewhoo, who originally said her father was Jewish, changed his mind. See this [1]:

"It would be interesting to see if Paula Abdul, whose career revived as a judge on “American Idol,” would be a no-show if the American version fell on a High Holy Day. Abdul has hardly spoken about being Jewish, but it seems most Jews know she is. Her mother is from a Canadian Jewish family. Bio profiles leave it unclear whether her father is a Sephardic Jew or a Syrian non-Jew. However, in a radio interview, Abdul told an L.A. rabbi that “she’s Jewish” and that she “believes in God.” "

• Does anyone know for sure? I mean a good reference like an interview or something? I'm beginning to think that she's only Jewish on her mother's side. Vulturell 07:58, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

"*Does anyone know for sure? I mean a good reference like an interview or something? I'm beginning to think that she's only Jewish on her mother's side. Vulturell 07:58, 13 February 2006 (UTC)"

Judaism is only from the mother side, does not matter if the father isn't jewish, he could be anything else, but only the mother side counts, that's just the way it is... Your mother is a Jew = U R A JEW (= --80.230.141.57 19:13, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Well sure, that may be true for her official acceptance into certain Jewish denominations (and obviously, not all), but it has nothing to do with her biographical article, or whether or not her father is a Sephardic Jew or not. Vulturell 01:05, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

The reason why if your mom's a jew, then you're a jew, is because your mother could have been having an affair with someone else, not because "that's just the way it is".

For anyone interested, you can see pictures of Paula's parents and sister here and here. Crumbsucker 13:25, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

And she has said it herself - [2] - both her parents are Jewish. Mad Jack 05:35, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Lip sync controversey

Does anyone know about the validity of claims she lip synched many of her songs? Rlevse 23:45, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about lip synching, but wasn't there a back-up singer that claimed she and not Paula sang on Paula Abdul's albums in the 80s? Yvette Marine, maybe?TJLink 08:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't make sense

"Although actually of Sephardic (through her father) and Ashkenazi (through her mother) Jewish descent, Abdul bears an Arabic surname and is commonly thought by the public to be of African-American or mixed-race descent."

How would having an Arabic surname make people think she is 'African American

Perhaps because of the African-Americans who are Muslims and take Muslim/Arabic names. Rlevse 18:44, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Many radical African-American racialists, such as Erica "Badu", cling desperately to some non-existent association between Islamic/Arabic culture and the Sub-Saharan/West African peoples from which most African-Americans descend. This falsehood has largely been perpetuated by lunatics like Elijah "Mohamed" and Louis "Farakhan". In reality, the phenotypical composition of the Arabian Penninsula is largely Semitic-Caucasian with some Aethiopian mixture, particularly in the southern region, however this is largely irrelevent; orthodox Islam has always been a faith open to all peoples and was never intended to be hijacked to support an hatefully exclusionist and fact-loathing ideology like the Nation of "Islam".

You seem well informed. But the negroid element is not purely ethiopid. The term Habashi is indeed a corruption of the term Habesha, but it was used to refer to all negroid groups, including the Nilotic/Bantuid types of East Africa. I believe there is even a Sudanic element in Southern Arabia, particularly in Oman. I could be wrong though, physiology is not a good determinant of one's sub-race. Anyway, the largest concentration of sub-Saharan DNA (in the Middle East) is located in Yemen. The degree is less extensive elsewhere, though Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries exhibit a much higher rate than regions like the Levant and Mesopotamia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.194.104.5 (talk) 19:59, 17 February 2007 (UTC).

Another thing that doesn't make sense: in the "Early Life" section of "Biography" it says her dad is African American, but the "Personal Life" section negates this. Any one know what's true?--Madame C 14:15, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree, is she or isn't she part black? This article is inconclusive at best. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.52.160.123 (talk) 20:08, 26 February 2007 (UTC).

SHe is part black. Just by the countries involved and her appearnce show that. Besides, she never said that she was not. ALso, there are a LOT of clearly black people in Arabia. The rest are mulattoes. VERY few are what you would label as white.--71.235.94.254 16:07, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

George Lucas

According to these very reliable music video database sites, George Lucas did NOT direct the video for "Rush Ruch". A man name Stephan Wuernitzer did:

Music Video Database [3] [4] Clipland [5]

This misnomer seems to stem from his page on imdb [6] and it has spread over the internet. But Wuernitzer also has his own credit [7]. Judging from the fact that Wuernitzer has other non-Star Wars related music video credits [8], I believe it will be proper to remove Lucas's name from this aritcle. MrBlondNYC 10:57, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Now they call her "Latino"???

The news media always been inaccurate on celebrities' ethnic and national origin, in the case of Paula Abdul. OK now, she's first "Black American", then "Arab American", next "American Jewish" and now "American Latino" as in her Latin American roots. I've known many Hispanics in Southern Cal. identify with her, but anyone who read her biography should know (why would we care?) she isn't Chicana, Mexican, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Spanish or otherwise relate to Spain. I guess her hometown San Fernando is renowned for a large Mexican American community, but don't make Paula Abdul (or another local Miss Julie Brown despite an expert would research this ethno-genealogical stuff on her "Californio" background) qualify as a "Mexican". There's no reference available on Wikipedia to confirm that, next thing you know someone wants to make her an "Asian American", "Italian American", "German American" or "WASP" or "Cherokee" or "Australian" that's fine by me. I thought in Hollywood the issue of race or color is no big deal, but to demonstrate the abilities and talents of many individuals are as diverse and the doors are open for them. +

Paula is of a phenotype that people in the racially ignorant USA are not familiar with. Therefore, they tended in the beginning to lump her in with the usual multi-ethnic label, which would be "black." She's really a form of creole. JBDay 17:01, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Which is typically labeled as black.--71.235.94.254 16:09, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Mohammed Abdul

Do you think we should add an in popular culture section with him in it? - Malomeat 23:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Even though this is kinda off topic can someone help the new list of best-selling remix albums worldwide with its structure.

Personal Life

"Although Abdul is Jewish[6][7] Abdul's publicist attributed this to technical difficulties during the recording of the interviews." This statement makes no sense, her publicist attributes "what" to technical difficulties, her being jewish?! 71.68.227.176 03:18, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Paula Abdul Jabar

Everyone is telling me that Paula was known as "Paula Abdul Jabar" at one point, although I haven't found any sources saying that's true, and it isn't shown on Wikipedia. Is it true? If so, shouldn't it be added to Wikipedia under "birth name" or something?

Rhythmnation2004 21:10, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

PLEASE FIX THIS ARTICLE!!!

I normally don't shout, but I think it's necessary: this article needs a lot of "fixin.'" For instance, first the article says Paula Abdul's father was an "African-American" from Brazil of Sephardic Jewish ancestry, then -- as you read down the page -- it turns around and says she's "not Black" and denies this by precisely saying that she and both of her parents are "Jewish" (and providing all manner of testimonials to that "fact.") Not only has this article blatantly contradicted itself (is she partially of African descent or isn't she?) but the distinction implicit in saying she's-Jewish-therefore-not-Black is quite racist (and, indeed, very offensive.) The Beta Israel are both Jewish and of African descent (and have been since the time of King Solomon, thank you), the Lemba people also (and their DNA proves this, at least as far as their Kohanim.) Professor Lewis Gordon(at Temple University), as well, is also a Black Jew -- and (please correct me if I'm wrong) descended from Sephardim who settled in the West Indies during the 18th century. Judaism is a religion, not a race, and hopefully wiki editors will take this into account in the future. It's one thing for Paula Abdul herself to deny any African descent she might have -- America is still a "free country" and she can identify as anything she pleases -- but quite another for a wiki editor to deny such descent using discredited, racist, distinctions which would serve to demean people of the same faith as Ms. Abdul. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mazallen (talk • contribs) 05:18, 28 February 2007 (UTC).

The origin of the Beta Israel is a matter of much debate and controversy, and many scholars believe that they have a very tenuous historical connection to the rest of world Jewry. But it is not uncommon to find Jews from the Middle East (especially Yemen) who look almost black, as do many Arabs from the same areas. You could hypothesize that Paula Abdul does have a remote African ancestor somewhere in her past, but it doesn't change the fact that in terms of ethnic background, she is 100% Jewish. We can't justifiably call her "African-American" unless she has known black roots; speculation due to a subjective assessment of her physical features isn't sufficient. marbeh raglaim 16:19, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Jewish is a religion, not an ethnicity. Know this before you try to be an educator. Also, anyone with the title "African-AMerican" despite appearance, is some how seen physically as black but the rules change when peoples are from any place outside of the designated area that whites want blacks to be from. Black people and even the white people know who is black and who is not. All of this race-mixing between different types of whites and blacks in America gives most other forms of peoples (hispanics, middle-easterners, so-called berbers) as the result. If famous bi-racial people (like Abul) had names from others areas, then you people would try to take them away from black people and bring them into another people who are (wrongfully) assumed white. Just look at the singer Sade for a strong example of what I write.--71.235.94.254 16:20, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

And her date of birth is currently quoted as both 18 June and 19 June - which is correct ?!

Derek R Bullamore 21:34, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Beta Israel are not "black" in the sense the Afrocentrics would have it. Their historical connections are with the rest of the Eastern Mediterraenean, not SSWest Africa where the Negroid peoples originated. They are certainly not related to the hip-hopping BN racial fascists who try and steal their culture and history as well as genetics. Call BI "Eastern Sfaradim," that is very, very accurate. JBDay 17:09, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

They are black. The white controlled Israeli government treats them as such and they call themseves black as well as most Ethipoians. It appears as if you whtie supremacists keep overstepping your European boundaries and keep infesting the internet with your BS. Now you want to revist the old belief on calling Ethipoians whites. I guess it is a part of a master plan to keep African-Americans down, but Ethiopians (unlike many Northern Sudanese and some Somalis) proudly proclaim their blackness. Concentrate on Europe.--71.235.94.254 16:20, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Such utter stupidity! There is no "white" race and there is no "black" race. "Israel" is controlled by ZIONISTS, not "whites." No, the world will not give in to those who persist in the indefensible division of humanity in continents. As for Ethiopeans, they are Caucasian, not Negroid. They are historically Indo-Persians in every way possible. There is no African race, and there never will be. ANY form of "supremacist" is the same. Sorry, "Europe" as anything other than a piece of land does not exist except as the insane ravings of Crusaders and fans of Kipling, along with WN/Nazis. Of course, BNs believe in continents as human demarcations as the Nazi/WNs do. By the way, the so-called Black Hebrews are helping Sharon and his clique to further exterminate Palestinians. Again,"White" is a descriptive term, not a race. JBDay (talk) 01:13, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I've just watched the Paula Abdul biography on the Biography Channel. I don't know much about Paula Abdul - just heard the name before I watched the bio on the Biography Channel. All I can say is, it was like they were talking about two different people. Where are things such as the airplane crash in the Iowa cornfield?, etc? LOTS of stuff missing from this Wikipedia entry (if the Biography Channel is correct).

Paula Abdul, as an Arab-American

Thought that I'd let you all know that it gets more complicated: A few sites tout her as an Arab-American:

• http://www.jerusalemites.org/facts_about_arabs/1.htm
• http://swiftreport.blogs.com/news/2005/05/paula_abdul_voi.html
• http://www.arabtoronto.com/starofthemonth/paulaabdul/
• http://www.alhewar.com/CaseyKasem.htm Dogru144 19:54, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

that song is Karma She made it a while ago for an album that never got relised but is making a new album that should come out next year...or somthing like that :) I love Paula!

Jews haven't been Arabs for 3500 years. Before that, maybe. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.91.98.31 (talk) 07:12, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

Possible Vandalism

Removed reference to Paula supposedly "farting" during her Super Bowl half-time duet as it was tacked on to the end of the "Substance Abuse Allegations" section and did not include a citation. It appears to be vandalism.--Strmmrgrrl 17:03, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Straightup.jpg

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