Talk:Nightwish

Archives

Archive 1 : June 2004 – March 2007

Please Note

This Discussion Page is archived using permanent link archiving method. Rainer1 00:25, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Album Gallery

Please note that an album gallery style discography is considered an unnecessary usage of image fair use and is grounds for removal of an article's featured status. See Discussion Archive 1 for the original debate. Rainer1 01:16, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

If you'd like I started a discography for Nightwish that still needs some work and an Album Gallery would work there and not run the risk of making the main article lose it's featured status. Here's a Link. Rainer1 05:06, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Edits

I streamlined End of an Era and Successor to Once sections. I just felt that the same info was being repeated over and over, and that too much information was presented in a blog-style format, not the encyclopedia format of wikipedia. I also decided to move everything regarding the new singer into the Successor to Once section, partially because I felt the new singer pertained more to the new album, but also out of respect for Tarja; the End of an Era section I felt should be more focused on Tarja — the new singer would mark the beginning of a new Era, not the end of an old. CyminX 00:28, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Not sure why my edit keeps getting removed. I even cited the source of the information which had quotes from the band members about the new vocalist.70.58.115.76 01:41, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Possible FAR

There is a chance this article will be nominated for Feature Article Review - for criteria 1.a (one sentence paragraphs, short stubby sections) and 1.c (insufficient amount of inline citations, "reached number 3 in the Finnish chart, yet no reference for it. (heaps of unreferenced statements etc etc Giving you the heads up. M3tal H3ad 11:32, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I saw that one coming for miles. I'll fix this article once I graduate (two months left) and the new singer is announced. —♦♦ SʘʘTHING^(Я) 16:50, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Faster, Harder, Nightwish

Although the information appeared in the band's page, I kind of distrust of them until a reliable source informs about this (remember, primary sources are discouraged). And since this is April 1, and as far as we knew Nightwish was not going to change their style (they were recording a 14 minute requiem, if I recall correctly), I will advice people to be careful, at least for today. -- ReyBrujo 04:25, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

God, are you blind? It was told in the chapter Faster Harder Nightwish that this probably was an April joke. As well, today, the website told that this was a joke. I'm putting back the chapter. AkiShinji 09:54, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

In case you did not notice, I posted this note just as the article went up there after noticing an IP adding the information. -- ReyBrujo 15:04, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Someone erased the information again. Can someone explain why? I'll put it back there. AkiShinji 12:30, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

It was removed by anoymous IP User:129.120.244.17 with the reason Deleted rumors and April 1st joke. While funny, and deserving of notice, it has no permanent effect on the history of the band and should not be on the encyclopedic entry. The Kinslayer 12:43, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

To which I somewhat agree, especially considering no reliable source picked the information, we are using a primary source for confirmation, and the article is near a feature article review due its lowered quality. -- ReyBrujo 13:06, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Another warning - The Nightwish article keeps getting worse in quality which each edit. The Faster, Harder, Nightwish was a joke and at best should only have a small mention in the article. The big section that is currently there is poorly written and fails to read clearly. Unless people stop adding all these rumours and miscellaneous info, the article is going to lose its featured article status. --Leon Sword 22:14, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I will try to shorten the text down and move it. I agree that it shouldn't be a part of the history chapter. AkiShinji 22:17, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I deleted the Faster, Harder section twice - I apologize for not logging in the first time. Regardless, there's absolutely nothing notable about a minor April Fools joke. Nightwish is up for Featured Article of the Day and will never reach it if we continue to erode this formerly wonderful article with irrelevancies. --Fulorian 12:57, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

(Reseting indent) The problem is your preaching to the converted here Aki, it's the one-stop editors that add the junk without consultation. The Kinslayer 08:20, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Misheard lyrics

no reference to their misheard lyrics!? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.122.44.171 (talk • contribs).

I don't know anything about these, I have just seen some links on YouTube (which I have ignored). This means I don't have an idea of what they are. If you think it is good for fans and others to know about these misheard lyrics, please put the information in. - Aki 14:14, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

It's not at all relevant to an encyclopaedia article, but funny nonetheless. Check out the link here about the misheard lyrics of "Wishmaster".UnleashTheWolves 03:39, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Misheard lyrics are inappropriate, and nor are the relevant for the article. [Mathias, 19:53, 5 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.107.13.210 (talk)

Cover Songs

Isn't the Cover songs section unnecessary? If there's not being a single listing, I don't think there should be a cover listing. - Aki 14:26, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

No-one doesn't really seem to care about this article anymore. I'll delete this part. And DON'T bring it back unless discussing it here first. - Aki 17:53, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Uhm. I will not delete it, but if anyone thinks as I do, delete it. And those who thinks different can discuss it after that. - Aki 17:55, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Irellevant images

The bottom of the articles has a column of 4 images that add nothing to the article. The covers are pretty, yeah, but they are not even serving their fair use rationale there. Oppositions to me removing them? --Sn0wflake 18:40, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

No opposition from me, nor from Aki. Note that I merged both discussions as they refer to the same fact. -- ReyBrujo 21:37, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I included these images as they were examples of the Nightwish discography, which was featured in the very same section. If you want to delete them, I can't protest. - Aki 08:54, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

NW

Tonight, I included that Nightwish is shortened NW. As I thought it would be discussion about this (there are so many fake shortenings going on), I added a ref-thing leading to nightwish.com (<ref>[http://www.nightwish.com Nightwish.com]</ref>). Though, today this was erased by ReyBrujo with the comment "no such reference". Take a look at the news on the site I linked to. On several places, Nightwish is shortened NW (by the main administration). - Aki 08:54, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Find at least one reliable secondary source using it, please. That they shorten it a couple of times to make the title fit some text box does not mean it is an official shortcut. -- ReyBrujo 12:17, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Have you even read the link? It is the official website, so I don't think that this is "lying" or something. And it is NOT for fitting. May I give some examples? "15.03.2007 - PARADISE LOST to support NW on the 2007 US tour". Another one? "We have experienced that there have been fake-Nightwish-members for example at Messenger and ii2-channel lately. Those people have pretended to be some NW-member or from the crew or management". What do you need to get satisfied? - Aki 18:14, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

This is a stupid edit war. Please, get in touch with Wikipedia:Reliable sources and Wikipedia:No original research. What you are doing is making a conclusion based on a guess: "Since they use NW in a few places, it must be official translation even if they don't specifically mention that NW is recognized as a shortening." Read the site's disclaimer: The authors do not warrant the information provided on this website to be complete, correct or always up-to-date. Also, you should discuss until consensus is reached, not just re-revert. That is why this article downgraded its quality since it became featured. -- ReyBrujo 18:41, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I would like to see if someone else agrees that the official shortcut for Nightwish is "NW" before removing it. -- ReyBrujo 05:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I just checked the group Nightwish on last.fm, and found this several times in the first forum thread I read. - Aki 05:38, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Anyone can post in a forum, that is not considered a reliable source. This explains it well: Articles should rely on reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. Sources should be appropriate to the claims made: exceptional claims require exceptional sources. The band's website is considered a primary source, and per this, Any interpretation of primary source material requires a secondary source. You are interpreting, based on your observations, that NW is a shortening. However, forums are not reliable sources, and the website of the band is a primary source, so you need an independent secondary source to verify your claim. Without it, you can add information. -- ReyBrujo 05:55, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Eva sound download on the official site is named "nw - e" in its meta name (not file name).Lelek 14:12, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Haha. This is a classical case of an all-high-and-mighty Wikipedia overruler throwing his pathetic weight around. Plenty of those here. Also, this article fails to mention Nightwish sucks with that horrible Anette. --84.249.212.126 17:05, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Genres

The genres that are up on the Nightwish article's side-thingie right now is symphonic metal and power metal. But, as lots of people are gagging about that Nightwish is other genres, what difference does it make if these are included there? I don't that's very misleading. I'm adding symphonic power metal and gothic metal immediately. - Aki 10:54, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Check the archive, there are several discussions about genre, and consensus was thatthey are not gothic. That they have a few gothic songs does not mean they are gothic. Again, find a reliable secondary source stating they are gothic, and then you can add that information. -- ReyBrujo 12:19, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Now why has progressive metal been added? I really don't much in terms of prog in Nightwish's music. Maybe a little more than some power metal bands but then that isn't exactly difficult. Offski 00:35, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Symphonic metal and power metal fit good enough. leave it be. Zanders5k 21:05, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Now, who has added Powercore? Please, just leave it be. As Zanders5k says, Symphonic metal and Power metal fits good enough. [[]] [Mathias, 21:09, 8 January, 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.107.13.210 (talk)

Yeah, I saw you just remove that. I'm not even sure what the fuck powercore is... ≈ The Haunted Angel 20:24, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Media samples

I made a list of the four media samples on MediaWiki that I could find. If I have missed something out, please put that in. - Aki 09:41, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Otheruses template

Don't know how many times I have reverted this... but Nightwish (song) is a sub-stub which is a direct child of this article and which exists at most for the sake of completeness. There's absolutely no need for it to be in a otheruses template, more so because it is cited both in the article and in the template. --Sn0wflake 14:16, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

New Singer

Could you please refrain from placing any unfounded information on here. The leak to the Nighwish song is actually on their website, and there has been no mention of the dates being moved forwards for the release of the song or of the identity of the singer.

Also, there is no evidence of Vibeke Stene being the new snger ,and in fact has been discredited by both her and her agency. ~Alosel~ | ^(Talk) 11:42, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

It's not unfounded. The Finnish news section of their website says the identity of the new vocalist will be announced today (May 24) 17:00 Finnish time, that's 14:00 UTC. Internet sales and airplay of the Eva single will start on May 25 in Finland. --VpvFin 13:24, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

New singer is Anette Olzon from Sweden: http://mirror.nightwish.com/fi/band/members/facts?id=16. I dont trust my English so much that I would write it down, so somebody else can do that. 62.78.227.229 14:15, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh dear, I was going by the English section which still has the 30th as the date for both :) There has still been a lot of rumour and whatnot circulating ~Alosel~ | ^(Talk) 12:06, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Lineup

I just changed the image in the template on the article to their new lineup. - Aki 22:28, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Several users had reverted because the old image is free, and so I had done as well. This is related to our Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria, point No free equivalent Although the other image is outdated, it is free. There had been several discussions about similar topics (like Wikipedia_talk:Fair_use/Archive_4#Up-to-date information more important than license?), and it is usually stated that, if the change in the image could be fixed by adding an image of the change by itself, it should be done. In other words, we can keep the free image of Nightwish and add an image of the singer in the article, especially if free. Finally, note that promotional images of the band are usually deleted because free versions can be obtained. Articles like Lacuna Coil, Dimmu Borgir, etc, have images that do not show in full the artists, however fair use images, complete or newer, are deleted because they are not "impossible" to obtain. -- ReyBrujo 23:35, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Can we switch the main image over to what is used on their MySpace page? It has all the band members, including the new singer. Just a thought.

http://a653.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/55/l_6f001281dc1ecf7a16b13502be313fec.jpg

Sidelko 17:43, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Recently a new band member has been signed for a tentative one year contract. Can not remember his last name, first name is William. He goes to my college. Seriously, no shitting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.190.35.226 (talk) 22:32, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Languages

I know nothing about the Finnish music scene outside of a few Nightwish songs, so I was curious about something and was surprised to not find it in the article. Are Nightwish songs originally recorded in English, or are they (like other foreign artists) recorded in another language (in this case likely Finnish) and re-recorded in English? Furthermore, is this worth encyclopedic mention? JeffHCross (talk) 05:45, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Why would they record in their native language? Maybe they'd write it then translate it into English but as far as I know, most bands I listen to write and record in English. The only one I know for sure is Stratovarius, another Finnish band, who have an interesting view on metal sung in Finnish. Clicky! Offski (talk) 08:43, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Most Russian bands, as far as I have seen, originally record in Russian and then it's exported in English. Same goes for French, German, etc. As I said, I know nothing about the Finnish music scene. If it's common for Finnish bands to record in English, then that's good information to know. But that's why I asked. English isn't an official language of Finland, so I didn't want to assume that they originally recorded in English. That's also why I wondered if it was worth mentioning, because if it's a common thing for the scene, it's immaterial. Otherwise, it may be worth mentioning. JeffHCross (talk) 23:01, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

They do write in English originally, except some songs (that are kept in Finnish), such as Kuolema tekee taiteilijan and Erämaan Viimeinen. I don't believe this to be unsual enough to be mentioned in the article. We might though mention how they write and perform some songs in Finnish, a quite small language - since this is unusual. - Aki (talk) 17:50, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Included. - Aki (talk) 18:07, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup

This article severly needs cleanup if it is going to keep FA status. I counted 12 fact templates, 7 dead links, and tons of other issues. If it is not cleaned up in 7 days I am going to submit for a reassesment of FA status.
Thank you,
Skeeker _[Talk] 23:01, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I've been going through the History part a few times, and right now I'm going through the whole article top to bottom. Anyone willing can help me find sources on Google or whatever. - Aki (talk) 17:57, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Success

A little comment on the reverse: "(cur) (last) 02:23, 7 January 2008 ReyBrujo (Talk | contribs) (59,282 bytes) (Reverted to version as of 23:07, 6 January 2008, level 1 headings should not be used in articles, and we don't need to "create" even more sections for the history. And reference needed for the success) (undo)". It is clearly seen in the "Chart" section that DPP is their most successful album yet. - Aki (talk) 12:01, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I believe it is the most successful album, however we need a reference, otherwise we are judging data which is considered original research. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 01:27, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Is there a possibility to refer to the Chart section, since it has the correct references? - Aki (talk) 11:22, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

We need a reliable source saying, explicitly, that Dark Passion Play is their most successful album ever. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 11:31, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Origin

Is this where the band heir from (Kitee, Finland), or the bandmembers? For if it's the bandmembers, it should include Sweden too (Anette Olzon). 83.227.250.153 (talk) 16:30, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Singles

Master Passion Greed is currently listed as a single in the main nightwish article. I don't think this is correct, at least not yet anyway. It is not listed on the disciography on their official website. Does anyone know anymore information about this? Darrkwings (talk) 23:54, 10 January 2008 (UTC)