Talk:Akatsuki (Naruto)

Tobi Uchiha

Since Tobi does have the Sharringon, it should be safe to say that he is a Uchiha clan member. so shouldn't his name be Tobi Uchiha? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.214.76.123 (talk) 06:21, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

This doesn't really prove anything, as Kakashi has the Sharingan and he is not an Uchiha. --Naruto Tron 21:17, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Tobi is an Uchiha. His full name is Madara Uchiha.-Sharingan1679 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.13.145.124 (talk) 21:57, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

wat are u guys's thoughts on the whole tobi-obito theory? from wat i think, i think tobi is actually obito because tobi doesn't have his left eye. and obito lost his left eye to kakashi. i've heard other theories but the tobi-obito one makes more sense to me.--Bloody rock princess (talk) 18:39, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Although is a good theory, this is still original research.Tintor2 (talk) 18:44, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

ummmm....pein....

We should put up that one of the bodies is dead.....'twas in the latest chapter, proven...--71.173.174.12 (talk) 04:31, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Pein has also proven that being killed doesn't work for long unless all his bodies are dead. So technically he's captured and incapacitated. Should Pein ever get his hands on the body again, then he will be able to revive and use it.

Akatsuki Members File Photo's

Please excuse me if this has already been asked or questioned, but isn't it better to include one small picture of each member, positioned next to their texts? I think this was done long way before but don't know exactly why they were erased.

From what I remember they were removed because they caused the page to have too many non free images on the page. --70.48.172.140 (talk) 00:20, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

~Kudou (talk) 01:52, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Pains Ring

I suggest that we edit the last sentence of the Pain character section to:

"Jiraya notes that the first body Pain appeared in (third from the right) is that of Yahiko. Of the six bodies, none resemble the former Nagato and Yahikos body seems to be the only one carrying an Akatsuki ring."

At least three of the other bodies is not carrying a ring. I have looked through all chapters with the "new bodies", here is were they are shown not wearing a ring: Fat Pain (first from the right): ch 377, p10. Diedara Pain (first from the left): ch 377, p16. Long Hair Pain (second from the right): ch 377, p15 (right hand) and ch 378, p16 (left hand).

This is an noteworthy feature in Pains appearance. It supports Pain being an alias for all six bodies. Finally, it suggests that of the six bodies, Yahikos is the most important.

The ring list in the Wardrope section also needs an edit: "Right thumb: 零 rei, "zero"; worn by Pain." should be changed to "Right thumb: 零 rei, "zero"; worn by Pain (Yahikos Body)." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.181.50.40 (talk) 01:40, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

None of those examples are clear cases of a ring-less hand; either part of the hand is obscured by something, or only one of the hands is visible. You also need to consider the possibility that Kishimoto and his assistants simply forgot to add the ring. Find something more definitive or wait for it to be brought up in a future chapter. ~SnapperTo 03:53, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. Some of those were clear examples of ringless hands. I would really like a second opinion on this matter.

Sure I agree he could have forget to add the ring in maybe one or two images, but there is no possibility Kishimoto would forget to add the ring in 10 consecutive chapters (at least it should be regarded as highly unlikely for Kishimto & co to forget such a thing). Additionaly when Yahikos body reappered in chapter 379, the ring was clearly shown.

Furthermore the right thumb is really the only finger needed to confirm the body not to be an Akutsuki ringbearer (since this is were Pain wears his Akatsuki ring). Here are five examples of Pain not wearing a ring on his right thumb:

Diedara Pain: both chapter 379 page 2 and chapter 378, page 17.
Long haired Pain: chapter 377, page 15.
Fat Pain: Chapter 377, page 10 and page 13.

Yahikos body has been the only body shown wearing a ring. Until there is an image showing one of the other bodies wearing a ring, multiple rings should be regarded as pure speculation. If you like you could refrase the sentance to something like: "Yahikos body is the only one shown wearing an Akatsuki ring" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.243.135.93 (talk) 18:05, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, all right. Since there's nothing on the thumb I've pointed it out. If you find something more definitive (clear view of all ten fingers in same panel [though I imagine that would be rather obvious to everyone if it occurred]), please let us know. ~SnapperTo 22:52, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I will.

Just asking here since you talked about Nagato I wanted to know where the hell it says Nagato is Pain in the manga because that was just a speculation by Jiraiya about who he was and he then thought it was Yahiko when he saw him so why is it written in the article that Nagato is Pain if there's nothing to confirm it and as I recall when we were discussing the whole tobi being obito thing we have to have a strong source that says explicitely that for in that case Nagato is Pain before we can write it in the article (last time checked the rules for editing on wikipedia that was mandatory but if someones can prove me I'm wrong than plz do so otherwise I would advise to change the article) 70.81.129.221 (talk) 04:16, 15 December 2007 (UTC)UnKnOwNShInObIdA

Where in the article does it say that Pain = Nagato? Nagato is detailed in Pain's section yes, but nowhere does it say they are the same person. ~SnapperTo 04:18, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Name inconsistency

In the article both 'Pein' and 'Pain' are being used. Please make up your mind and make the appropriate edits. The article doesnt look good now. Survival705 (talk) 14:13, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

At the time you posted this comment, the article only referred to him as Pain. It still only refers to him as Pain. –Gunslinger47 19:36, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Pain may soon outgrow this article...

Or, at least, his individual section. It's becoming pretty apparant that, due to being six characters in one, there will probably be a lot more to talk about with him than with other members. He's already at three paragraphs, and adding in additional details, such as the origins of his other individual bodies (a few of their villages can now be confirmed), or their various combat styles, abilities, and techniques, may inflate his section a lot. While I don't think anything needs to be done yet, it may be prudent to start brainstorming for a solution now. I was thinking a seperate section in this article, or a unique article for the Six Paths of Pain might work, while the Yahiko body wearing the ring remains in the article, but with so much about the character intentionally confusing and mysterious, who knows? WtW-Suzaku (talk) 06:59, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Pain will not get an article until there is conception/reception information on him. If length becomes an issue in this article, we'll simply shorten his entry. ~SnapperTo 18:32, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Ouch. "Information can't be forced into the proper Wikipedia format? Then it's not important anyway." That being said, I don't think Pain has overgrown his paragraphs just yet. Seems to me that none of the Akatsuki are likely to ever get their own article, though, after the Itachi debate. Feebas factor (talk) 19:14, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes that does seem to be the standard now.Sam ov the blue sand, Editor Review 21:31, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Pain/Pein getting his own main article...

Due to the events of this latest Arc, Pain/Pein deserves to have a main article for him, so what is known about him can be expanded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SuperSaiyaMan (talk • contribs) 16:04, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Soon Pain may outgrow his article, but for now, let's stick with WP:CRYSTAL and WP:FICT and keep him here. Sasuke9031 (talk) 18:04, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

References

Hey all, I just saw theres an incorrect ref on the page. [38] Naruto manga chapter 365, page 11 in the context of "The Rinnegan, first possessed by the founder of the ninja world and characterized by a number of concentric circles around the pupil, gives the wielder access to all six types of elemental chakra.[38]". It should be chapter 375, page 11. DarkPegasus (talk) 15:09, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

If that's so, then feel free to make the changes yourself. Be bold in your editing. Cheers, Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 16:50, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

A nice sentiment, but DarkPegasus would be unable to comply. His account isn't old enough. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 07:04, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

By the way, i was reading Chakra page and reliazed that paragraph says there are 5 type of elemental chakra(earth,fire,water,wind,lightning) but as DarkPegasus wrote above, in the manga page, it is written that "six types of elemental chakra". What is the sixth one? fotte (talk) 10:25 , 13 December 2007 —Preceding comment was added at 08:26, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Most likely Yin-Yang, since Jiraiya literally says "Six types of chakra nature manipulation" and Yin-Yang is called a type of chakra nature manipulation by Yamato. JadziaLover (talk) 17:08, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

What would the "Shadow" Element/Chakra Shikimaru has fall under then?

We don't have verification on that. We have confirmation that it is a type of elemental chakra since it works with the chakra trench knives. Current speculation labels it potentially as the "dark chakra" mentioned by Yamato. –Gunslinger47 16:46, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Kakashi told Naruto it would be too complicated for him and would only confuse him more. I personally think it's mostly Fire element, but until it is further explained in either the manga or an official sourcebook then it is undetermined. What chapter does Yamato ever mention "dark chakra"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.171.0.149 (talk) 23:04, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Yamato doesn't mention "dark chakra" he mentioned "Yin-Yang chakra," or more specifically, "Yin-Yang chakra nature manipulation". This "Yin-Yang chakra" is apparently the source for things like medical jutsu, genjutsu, Chouji's Baika no Jutsu and Shikamaru's Kagemane no Jutsu, since Yamato advises Kakashi to wait with explaining "Yin-Yang chakra" after Naruto asked about how these jutsu work. JadziaLover (talk) 01:52, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

"Current" and "Former" Members

I suggest these headings be murged. When the series concludes and Akatsuki is both disbanded and all dead, everyone will wind up being a former member and the headings will bge obsolete anyway. It's part of the in universe reference that the header of teh article is talking about. I suggest a single list of "Memebers" consisting of all known characters to wear one of the ten rings and a cloak (Kabuto and Yura being those not in that category). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.17 (talk) 04:21, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but while I heartily agree, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Sasuke9031 (talk) 06:13, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Even so, contextually, Deidara is a current member durring the Rescue Gaara Arc. The arc still exists, and thus Deidara is not a former member, just a member. I understand that it's speculation to say "Akatsuki will disband or be destroyed by the end of the series" but we're not saying that in the article, all we'd be saying is "these are the known members of Akatsuki from the beginning of the series to the end of the series", it breaks no rules I know of, and it not in the 'in universe' style of continuity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.17 (talk) 05:17, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Well i suppose if you feel that strongly that it does not violate any policy here on Wikipedia then feel free to be bold. Sasuke9031 (talk) 02:12, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

But try not to be a smart ass about it, I dont apreciate that very much.Sam ov the blue sand, Editor Review 21:51, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Exactly how was that being a smart ass?--TheUltimate3 (talk) 22:25, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Man, that Deidara-is-still-alive-in-the-anime was a really bad argument, you know. Wikipedia holds with the most recent information, does it not? The anime is behind the manga, in the manga Deidei has gone to the place beyond, thus he's a former member... According to the stick-to-the-anime logic, we shouldn't update this page until the Americanized Naruto anime gets to this point, which, IMO, would just be stupid. 81.228.148.16 (talk) 18:09, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

That's not what I was saying. What I was saying was that Deidara was alive and a member at some point in the series, so he (in our universe) is still a member. Orochimaru... maybe he could be classified as a "former member" because he does not exist among their ranks at any point that he appears in the manga (except a flashback). You can't look at it from their world when you use 'current' and 'former', you have to look at it from ours, in which all the members are still members and don't exist as anything else. If you feel it necesary, feel free to add a short paragraph explaining the current roser changes in the manga, but I don't think it's needed if each member's entry mentions the circumstances around their death. Wikipedia may use the most recent information, but I think that it also has rules for works of fiction. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.17 (talk) 20:10, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Original Research?

Kakuzu's article states that he integrates various organs, not only hearts... That has never been stated in the manga and Kakuzu never expressed any interest in any other organs but hearts. 81.228.148.16 (talk) 18:27, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Done. I'm sure he could take other organs if he wanted to, but he specifically refers to hearts in my copies of the various chapters. ~SnapperTo 18:41, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Tobi\Madara

In the most recent manga, Pain himself stated Tobi was Madara, and we will never have to bring up the conflict again! HOORAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -Tobi4242 (talk) 23:55, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. If he calls himself "Madara" and the other central Akatsuki call him "Madara" then he's Madara. I'd like to remind everyone that calling him "Madara" doesn't mean that we're saying he's the same Madara who engaged in combat with the First Hokage, just that that name he accepts at this point is "Madara" (so to be safe, don't add the Uchiha surname). For those who would like to contest that "Tobi" is just as accepted, I'd like you remind you that as of now, only the non-central Akatsuki members are referring to him as such, and he hasn't called himself "Tobi" out of their presence. I'll go ahead and be bold, please revert and explain your objections if you have them. AnimeNikkaJamal (talk) 02:13, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree, now that Pain has addressed Tobi as Madara, his name should be changed to Madara. Tobi could be just a code name. it already sounds like a weird name. i mean, everyone has japaness names, and his name is Tobi, it doesn't fit in. So i think it is a code name.

Tobi is a japanese name, a pun on tobitobi, like Obito. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.171.0.149 (talk) 22:55, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Yamato is also a code, but we use it anyway instead of Tenzo. For now Tobi is more official than Madara.Tintor2 (talk) 18:51, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to dissapoint you, but there's the possibility that Tobi isn't and is only lying to gain Pain's fear and loyalty. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 21:04, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

There shouldn't really be a problem for Wikipedia though. Every article I've seen simply states the indisputable fact--"Tobi refers to himself as Madara."—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 22:00, 29 December 2007 (UTC)\

Good point. Also, even if was lying we would not be able to add that at this point because base on the infomation at hand it would be a clear case of original research. --67.70.30.145 (talk) 20:56, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Kisame's age

It was "150 in part I" and "31 in part II" since only the first one had a source, I used common sense to correct it, hope there's no error. --XClaudiox (talk) 19:44, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, nevermind, vandal's work, undoing some edits. --XClaudiox (talk) 19:54, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Itachi Dead?

in the preview of the next naruto chapter, it shows itachi dead. if it is true, then we should put him under former members. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.214.76.123 (talk) 06:11, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Its a preview, it means nothing.

That spoiler is fake. It appeared near Monday or Tuesday and the chapter comes out in Japan on Wednesday. People say it was made last week by Chinese fans.Tintor2 (talk) 10:51, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Itachi is still pretty talkative for a dead man. As with Jiraiya, there is no pressing need to sign his death certificate ASAP. We'll wait for his death to be WP:V. –Gunslinger47 19:57, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I mistook. .Tintor2 (talk) 19:57, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Second official databook confirms Itachi as dead? Looks like verifiability to me. Sasuke9031 (talk) 02:04, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

yea he is dead--Blue-EyesGold Dragon 03:58, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

who said he was dead yet, who knows it can be another genjustsu/illusion a stop jumping into conclusions —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.233.242 (talk) 07:14, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

He died twice and the first one was a genjutsu, what's to say the second one wasn't? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alwayssummerdays (talk • contribs) 18:41, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't doubt that he's dead, but like with Jiraiya we need to be certain. If Sasuke is asking him a question, then that confirms that Sasuke knows he is still alive, thus able to answer said question. 70.138.167.143 (talk) 21:36, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you don't ask a dead man a question. That's just stupid. And who knows? It could be a clone. Jazz Band Member (talk) 12:35, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

yeah itachi killed an entire clan i don't think that Kishimoto would have him killed that easly.Darthwin (talk) 16:39, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Chapter [385] says the entire fight so far has been genjutsu on both sides. Itachi survives. As a side, Madara helped Itachi kill his clan. –Gunslinger47 04:57, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

yes itachi is alive, and i think you mean 385--Blue-EyesGold Dragon 07:03, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Right, 385. Corrected, thanks. –Gunslinger47 22:24, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

has anyone realized this

after getting blown up by deidara, tobi/madara is talking to pain...like he teleported —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.35.58.130 (talk) 22:55, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

I doubt it was that far, especially for a ninja, to have run. If he was still in Hi no Kuni, then Rain is an adjasent country, and is much smaller than Kaze no Kuni. Also, Tobi/Madara is probably really fast, even for a ninja. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.15 (talk) 16:01, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

headband

In the article it is said that members scratch their headband to show that they no longer have allegiance to their village. What about Pein? He is still with his village. 60.50.72.237 (talk) 03:20, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

He is loyal to his Amegakure. He destroyed the original. ~SnapperTo 03:28, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

It could also be A)to gain the trust of other Akatsuki; or B) a mistake by Kishimoto. Either way, it isn't worth worrying about. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 21:02, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Notability/Relevance

I have added this tag to the article, as this article at present does not establish the real-world notability of the subject, as per WP:FICTION and WP:NOT. While I've no doubt that this organisation is notable inside of the Naruto universe, I'm not so sure that it's notable in our universe. If someone can add references to establish this real-world notability, it would be very much appreciated. Lankiveil (talk) 03:40, 29 December 2007 (UTC).

OK, look at all the real world context that was put in since the tag. It was warranted then, but it is obsolete. Don't get mad at Snap because he saw what I am seeing and decided to be bold and remove a now obsolete tag. Sasuke9031 (talk) 03:46, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Maybe I'm missing it; could you point me to where it is? My particular concern is that there are no secondary sources, everything in the rather extensive reflist is decidedly primary. I apologise if my edit summary came across as crotchety or rude to anybody, I certainly did not intend it in that way. Lankiveil (talk) 05:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC).

Example: Itachi is a popular character in the series, normally ranking in the Top Ten of the Shonen Jump popularity polls. However, in the latest poll he ranked 11th.

Similar entries can be found in Deidara's and Sasori's sections. While this is probably mostly fan-based information, apparently, according to WP policy (I'm going to have to do some research as to whether this is actually part of a policy or I'm just confused) that is real world context and probably comes from a secondary source. Sasuke9031 (talk) 06:28, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Okay, that's definitely a step in the right direction then. I do question whether Masashi Kishimoto, as the creator of the series, is an acceptably independent source to be considered reliable, but we'll leave that aside for now. Do you have any more real-world examples of how Akatsuki (as opposed to the individual members of this organisation) are notable outside of the Naruto continuity?

I'd also suggest you to peruse Wikipedia:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_an_indiscriminate_collection_of_information, particularly the part that states that articles on fictional subjects "should cover their real-world context and sourced analysis, offering detail on a work's development, impact or historical significance, not solely a detailed summary of that work's plot". Lankiveil (talk) 07:21, 31 December 2007 (UTC).

This article's subject honestly doesn't have much real-world significance, but why don't you go put this tag on the lists of character articles, the setting article, the individual character articles and the Jutsu article too instead of just picking this one out randomly. These villains are one of the most notable subjects in the series and obviously deserve article, so please don't go all willy-nilly with deletionist propaganda. - The Norse (talk) 21:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

But those article already have out-of-universe info. The problem of Akatsuki is that is relatively new compared to all the other things in the series. Examples of info we need are creation and reception. I looked in a lot of sites but I didnt find anything.Tintor2 (talk) 21:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

The only articles who have unsourced outofuniverse or dont even have are Neji Hyuga and Rock Lee that are planned to be merged.Tintor2 (talk) 21:31, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

When do you think the admins will go away and pick on some other article's bones?Sam ov the blue sand, Editor Review 22:26, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Probably never. Jazz Band Member (talk) 12:32, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Zetsu from Kusa

I read somewhere once that Zetsu's from Kusagakure, is this true? Scorpio777 (talk) 20:05, 29 December 2007 (UTC)Scorpio666

It's a fan theory. And no, it isn't. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 21:01, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Minor info?

Is it important saying in what ring does the member wear it? Still it hasnt be proved that the ring position is important. It would be like saying in what part of the body the ninja uses his headband.

Other thing is that the info of the ring is repeated saying the member and the main ring info. I will be bold.Tintor2 (talk) 0:57, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

The characters have stressed a high value and importance to the rings. As of yet it is unknown as to why, but it might have to do with the Biju sealing ritual (as they all stand on the same finger they wear teh ring on). Deidara expressed more concern for his ring than the arm attatched to it after it was blown off, and Tobi assumed he could join just because he found Sasori's ring. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.15 (talk) 15:56, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

character

what does the character on the chair that itachi is siting on read? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.255.50.36 (talk) 00:29, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

It looks like kitsune (狐). –Gunslinger47 04:04, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Orochimarus ring

Stupid question: The article says the ring is "formerly worn" by Orochimaru. Now since the ring is still on what is technically his arm, wouldn't that count as him still wearing it? Lastbetrayal (talk) 04:32, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, never thought of that. I guess it's because it's not on his current body. Jazz Band Member (talk) 12:43, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Maby we could mention something about it in the article... -Tobi4242 (talk) 00:40, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

"Itachis death"

As it just happened in the last issue, and towards the end at that, the actual death hasn't been confirmed, as Itachi is a master of illusions. I deleted the line signifying his death, and suggest it is left that way until actually confirmed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.171.132.72 (talk) 17:43, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, you can use an edit summary to explain your actions rather than posting here, if you'd like. See Help:Edit summary if you're interested. –Gunslinger47 19:30, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

also dead people dont talk...much--Blue-EyesGold Dragon 23:22, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Well there's that whole "night of the living dead" thing, but that's another story. lol Sam ov the blue sand, Editor Review 20:01, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

lol--Blue-EyesGold Dragon 00:52, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Current/former members

Guys.. I've been thinking, why do we separate the Akatsuki members into current and former members? When the Naruto story ends, Pein and his remaining gang will get killed/captured(eventually, duh). So when that happens, you want to put all of them into former members? Doesnt sound right to me. I have little knowledge about wikipedia but I think this article should not be presented as the events unfolds. So I think we should remove the current/former thingy and just explain how they died for each member. Survival705 (talk) 04:18, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Right now it's a good way to keep things organized. If everyone is killed, we will obviously put it together, and say all of the members are dead. Jazz Band Member (talk) 12:42, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

But the thing is i see no reason to separate them. It does not making any sense because as of now the fate of the remaining members are unknown. The fact that we state 'current members' means we are telling a story rather than writing an article. Survival705 (talk) 15:24, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Guys, remember, wikipedia not a crystal ball. -Tobi4242 (talk) 00:37, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

All the more reason the current/former stuff should be dropped. Alright, so we do not know whether the members will eventually get killed, but if we keep transfering members from the current ones to former members it will get very weird and not very encyclopedic. Again I'm suggesting just drop it and simply explain if they were eventually killed. Survival705 (talk) 03:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia's crystal ball rules detail predicting our future. Besides, not saying both current and former is not violating any rules. It is not unreasonable to think that they will all die eventually even if that may eventually be proven to not be the case, but we don't have to say or even apply that thought. Characters like Hidan in particular have no history outside of Akatsuki thus are never former members in our world because they only ever existed as an Akatsuki member. If someone asked you "who's the immortal Akatsuki guy?" You'd probably reply "Hidan", even though he is incapasitated in the most recent chapters. And the same conversation can go the opposite way. Nearly the same goes for Deidara, Sasori, Kakuzu, Konan, Pein, and Zetsu. Orochimaru also exists as the Snake Sannin, while Kisame also holds his own place among the seven mist swordsmen, and Itachi is the Uchiha traitor and Sasuke's brother above all else. Point is, if people want to know what's going on right now in teh manga, they read it. If they want information on Akatsuki that is organised and most of the time acurate, they come here. That means no speculation, the character's known history, their abilities, maybe the Biju they were assigned to capture (if known), their ring, and lastly how they died (if aplicable). They are all still Akatsuki members, even if they are dead in the current manga chapter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.15 (talk) 15:46, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

He is right. -Tobi4242 (talk) 00:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

It seems that you guys still dont get it. I think just forget about it. You guys just cant see and understand the problem. No wonder this article is a target for a lot of deletionists Survival705 (talk) 04:21, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Six Paths of Pain (Pain Rikudou)

Why has this been removed? Pain refers to his six selves as the "Pain Rikudou", and they are also referred to as the "Pain Rikudou" in the narration on one of the frontispieces. It's pretty significant to the character, as it ties in with the Samsara and various aspects of Buddhism that are present in Pain's character. I'm gonna add it back unless someone has a viable reason not to include it. WtW-Suzaku (talk) 15:19, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I suggest this link as source, if you need one... --Xander89 (talk) 12:36, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

what is a fair use rationale

just curious because it seems like a bunch of bullshit if you ask me. Because every picture i upload on to this stupid website gets deleted and its startin to piss me off. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roxas255 (talk • contribs) 16:16, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Relax. There is no reason to be angry. Your images will be deleted to our liking. Wikipedia is mighty. —Preceding unsigned —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.88.154.1 (talk) 03:20, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

You can't upload or use copyrighted images on Wikipedia unless there is a valid fair use for them appended to the image. This is so that Wikipedia doesn't get sued into oblivion, and it's non-negotiable. If you've questions, I suggest you try out the Wikipedia:Image copyright help desk. Lankiveil (talk) 03:40, 6 January 2008 (UTC).

So pretty much take the screenshot yourself and you should be fine. I think.Sam ov the blue sand, Editor Review 17:46, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, no, because a screenshot of a copyrighted (read: almost all) TV show/movie is still copyrighted. --Pentasyllabic (talk) 19:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Scratch that, go to a site with premission to use a screen shot then ask them premission to use it, and you should be fine. I think.Sam ov the blue sand, Editor Review 02:22, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

The Rin'Negan

This article states that the Rin'negan lets Pein control all six types of elemental ckakra, firstly this isn't necessarily true as here may be another reason for this and secondly, this would lead readers to believe that this is the underlying basis behind the Rin'negans powers or that it is the only use of them, there are others such as the super weapon jutsu Pein plans to create —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alwayssummerdays (talk • contribs) 22:39, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

As you have no basis in fact for that, while the claim itself is firmly rooted in the text, what does your speculation have to do with the article? — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 01:49, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

The claim is not rooted deep in the text. Jiraiya comments that the Rin'negan:

-Is the greatest of the Sandou (legendary three eye techniques)

-That They were possesed by the Rikoudou Sennin, who was given them by God, and whose skills and knowledge "Gave birth to the shinobi world"

-That they would be able to save or destroy the world when the time came.

All of this happened on chapter 373, pages two, three and 375 page 11.

While it states he learned all six chakra types, it also states that he learned Jiraiya's other jutsus which were obviously non-elemental. so that statement is wrong and needs to be removed —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alwayssummerdays (talk • contribs) 21:33, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Your facts are flawed: the Rinnegan were called (not "are") a tool of god that could (not "will") save or destroy the world. Furthermore, Jiraiya states that the Rinnegan allowed Nagato to master every technique taught to him, but does not elaborate on what those techniques were. What the article said was correct, but I've reworded it to reflect the ambiguity that's in the chapter. ~SnapperTo 21:56, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

What happened to consensus? Paeinful 2008?

OK, so what, now that it's 2008 you guys think you can get away with Pein instead of Pain? NO!!! Snap or someone who has a script, help. Sasuke9031 (talk) 23:04, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought it was kind of weird that when we finally decide to use "Pain" (which I thought was the popular Romanization?) an IP decides to go militant about "Pein".—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 23:06, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Looks like someone with a script needs to fix this and then we need to request semi-protection. Sasuke9031 (talk) 23:11, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to change it back. If someone wants to use Pein they can try to establish a new consensus. --67.71.77.153 (talk) 23:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Sasuke9031 (talk) 23:26, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

So it's pain, right? SuperGodzilla 2090 23:33, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes we use Pain. We should ask for protection tag. Just check the history of the article. But now I need you to go to Naruto Uzumaki because sby is thinking of deleting the article.Tintor2 (talk) 01:21, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

That AFD is already over. --67.68.153.14 (talk) 02:49, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok but I keep with the idea of a protection tag.Tintor2 (talk) 12:24, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Better do it soon because alot of people are calling him Pein instead of Pain. SuperGodzilla 2090 23:45, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but I have no idea how to do it.Tintor2 (talk) 21:52, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Can anybody else? Supergodzilla^20|90 03:00, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I believe protetion functions are restricted to admins. Sasuke9031 (talk) 04:30, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Yea, you have to request Protection or Semi-Protection of a page by an admin. Use WP:RFPP to make your request. --GhostStalker(Got a present for ya! | Mission Log) 16:59, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

It is done... Sasuke9031 (talk) 16:36, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Major Akatsuki members

I personally think that the big ones like Itachi should have their own pictuer.Ultimaterasengan (talk) 01:39, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Itachi is visable in the group picture. The only one that needs a picture is Sasori.Lastbetrayal (talk) 04:08, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Well unless the back of Konan's head has suddenly become her face, she needs a picture too. Kakuzu's appearance is pretty obscure and hard to visualize in that group photo as well but nothing compared to Konan or Pain but Pain has a picture now.

Good point--Blue-EyesGold Dragon 07:43, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Tobi/Madara Uchiha

After the latest chapter it seems obvious to me that we should merge the info of these two together. It's been pretty much stated that they are the same person in every way possible.--66.229.89.202 (talk) 18:49, 19 January 2008 (UTC)