Talk:Mexican peso

Coin images

I am not sure the article is improved with all those coin images. The images need descriptions and images. Please use this TALK space to discuss why each image furthers the article. Discuss descriptions, relevance, etc. Kingturtle 06:19, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

• Hajor - awesome solution! well done! Kingturtle 02:48, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  • Shucks, thanks. Next outstanding task is to find some banknotes of below average tattiness and scan them in. Cheers, –Hajor 04:11, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

• • At home, I have a jar with a bunch of Mexican coins and bills. In fact, I'll probably be visiting a friend in Mexico in a couple of days. Is this stuff worth having here? Samboy 18:47, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I would say that showing banknotes with be a good idea. By the way $20, $50 and $100 coins are issued at special ocassions (to commemorate stuff) and are not used in everyday transactions (they can be accepted at transactions but they are not intended to replace banknotes). The $20 coin I guess is as used as the dollar coin in the US (not that often). --J.Alonso 20:59, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

By the way I just checked Banco de México's web page, the "Monedas tipo C" are the coins used today, which do not include $20, $50, $100 (in fact the $100 isn't even shown at all), and $20 is issued for special ocassions.

Yes, but the issuing of the C series didn't imply the removal of the B series of circulation. So the "old" 20s and 50s (although it's been a long time since I saw a $50) are still legal tender. Just rarer than hen's teeth. There's a page on the new $100s here (the Eng. page might be worth including in the article). I've got an Octavio $20 and a Jalisco $100 in my loose-change dish at the moment. No, they're not intended to replace the banknotes, just to circulate in parallel with them.

Banknote images -- very much needed, but I wasn't sure of the copyright status. Some countries don't mind, others do. –Hajor 21:25, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

The history section is horrible! The Mexican Peso did not even exist until 1864 under Maximillian (and then only briefly). The term Peso is being used where the Spanish 8 reales coin should be used! (and Spanish 8 reales coins were minted in many places other than Mexico) 3 August 2005

Dear Anonymus: I believe you have not done enough research on the history of the Mexican Peso. It is true that the real was used as well and that ONLY during the colonial times (as much as the shilling was used in Britain along with the pound before converting to the decimal system). Peso, originated as a weight measure of silver (of which Mexico was and is the first world producer, which made Spain, in colonial times, coin more Mexican pesos than any other form of currency), and it was equivalent to 8 reals (another meausure of weight), in turn, I believe it was 32 maravedis that made up a real, but that was only used in Spain. Also, the peso existed way before Maximilian, as the agreement on the "sale" of the Northern States and Territories to the US after the Mexican/American war (the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo), shows the amount in pesos. While the emission of Mexican coins were used throught the Spanish Empire before the Independence, after the independence it continued on. Plenty of documents abound that show the use of Mexican peso throught the 19th and obviously 20th century. --129.119.25.31 21:02, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

I have made some updates to the history section, bringing the history of the coinage up to the 1970's. Although the word "Peso" did not appear on any Mexican coin prior to Maximilian, the denomination did exist, equal to 8 reales (usually shown on the coin abbreviated as 8 R). The Spanish Milled Dollar was the coin the US dollar was denominated to, even in the times of the Continental Currency prior to 1792. ErickFlaig 13:59, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Tostón

By the way, the term toston is NEVER used nowadays, as it refers to the 50 cents of the MXP. With the devaluation of the MXP up to 3.000 MXP per dollar, this coin ceased to be used in the early 80's, and the term was lost. With the introduction of the MXN in 1993, the "new" 50 cents coin was created, but it has never been referred to as toston.

In my experience, tostón is alive and well, used both for the 50c coin and the $50 note. –Hajor 21:21, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Maybe it is a regional expression, which is not used in my area. I am Mexican, and I have never heard "tostón" applied to the 50 cents coin, and people my age never use it at all. To be honest, I didn't even know that a toston was 50 cents until I read the article. My dad uses it in his stories as a child buying candy in the good ol' days, with the "old" coins. I assume "tostón" was related to the color of the coin (which has nothing to do with today's new 50 cents coin). To me "tostón" sounds like "quinto"... old words to refer to old coins, not today's coins... people will say "no tengo ni un quinto", but few of them will ever relate it to the new 5 cent coin, and say... "here have a quinto". But again, that may be something regional, and in other places, the old word "tostón" has come back to life, and the new coin has been baptized with that name. And even if my dad talks of the 50 old coin as a "tostón", I can't see the conection with today's 50 peso bank note. On the other hand, even if it is used in some regions in Mexico, my hypothesis would be that the previous generations that grew up in the 50's and 60's are re-applying the "nickname", but my generation, which grew up speaking of 500 peso coins, 1000 peso coins, and even 5000 peso coins (before the new peso arrived) had no notion of its existence. --129.119.25.30 18:33, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

I concur... I'm also Mexican; I've visited several regions of Mexico, and I've never heard the word "tostón" used for the current 50-cent coins. --Doctor C 22:24, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'm also Mexican and I've heard from time to time people using the word "tostón", so it's not as frequent as it must have been a few decades ago, but it's still seldom used. Vicco Lizcano 19:36, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Decimalization

When was the peso decimalized? Was it in the "monetary reform of 1905" mentioned in the article? Nik42 09:13, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Never mind, found the answer. It was 1864. I'll add a note to the article Nik42 09:17, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Until 1785?

How can one say that "the Mexican peso was the official currency for much of North America until the United States dollar began to be issued in 1785", when Mexico didn't even exist as a country until decades later? Maybe there was a coin called "peso", but "Mexican peso"? Either that's wrong or should be clarified. Itub 01:11, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

And I would think that the British pound would've been about just as dominant as the peso on the eastern side of the continent, with a million Indians in between who wouldn't have cared about either one.Brian8710 06:45, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

The peso was actually far more used in what would later become the United States, due to the fact that there were no British coinage minted in the New World, while there were coins minted in Mexico. That's why we have a United States dollar and not a United States pound, the dollar being another name for peso Nik42 17:06, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Silver

is the 20 nuevo peso really silver? this should require a reference and where can i buy these if the peso declines? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.53.20.183 (talk) 21:11, 22 October 2006

Chester L. Krause, Cliffor Mischler, Colin R. Bruce II, et al. (editors), ed. (2003). 2004 Standard Catalog of World Coins: 1901-present (31st ed. ed.). Krause Publications. ISBN 0-87349-593-4. {{cite book}}: |edition= has extra text (help); |editor= has generic name (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: editors list (link) --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 22:01, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

10c and 20c?

This article states that 10 and 20 centavo coins are still commonly used. Yet, my uncle and aunt said they never saw anything below 50 centavo when they vacationed in Mexico recently. Have those coins fallen out of use, or is it a regional issue, perhaps not in much use in tourist areas? Nik42 04:32, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I live in Mexico and those coins are still in use, altough I wouldn't be so sure as to say commonly. Articles reflect their "presence" in their prices (ej. $1.5, $1.7, etc.) but usually the clerks just round them to 50 cents. A latest fad (in supermarkets) is to ask you to donate those cents to some charity organization (and thus rounding your count to a peso or 50 cents). Vicco Lizcano 19:43, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I added that info to the article. Please review. FYI, some people may attack that with WP:NOR. I find strictly adhering to that rule silly. And any wiki contributor in Mexico can verify that. If there's no source, it's fine. but it would be better if you can find a source, like a news article to back it up. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 00:59, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Here are some official sources (all in Spanish), from five different Mexican states. [1], [2], [3], [4], [5] . In case anyone asks. ;) Itub 01:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I obviously don't speak Spanish. I tried to use Google translate to find things that look like 10 and 20 centavo coins. But I couldn't. Could you give some examples of untranslated quote from the sources? Thanks. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 02:03, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm afraid none of them explicitly mention 10 and 20 cent coins, they just talk about "roundup" for donations. Here's one extract from each of the five sources above:

"El cambio que en muchas ocasiones consta de centavos puede definitivamente lograr un cambio positivo en la vida de cientos de niños que se encuentran en situación de calle” Así lo afirmó Alison Lane, Directora General de JUCONI, al anunciar el lanzamiento del programa de redondeo, que por segunda ocasión se realiza en una importante cadena de supermercados nacida en Torreón, Coahuila, a favor de JUCONI durante los meses de noviembre y diciembre de 2006."

("Change, which many times consists of only a few cents, can definitely result in a positive change in the life of hundreds of children on the street", announced Alison Lane, Director General of JUCONI, when launching the roundup program, to be implemented for the second time in an important supermarket chain in Torreon, Coahulia, in favor of JUCONI during November and December 2006.")

"El presidente municipal Alberto López Rosas en compañía de su esposa, la presidenta del DIF municipal, María Eugenia Díaz de López Rosas firmaron el convenio “En Pro de la Niñez Acapulqueña” con la empresa Carrefour que consiste en redondear los centavos de cada compra que realicen los consumidores, hasta el mes de diciembre."

("Municipal president Alberto López Rosas and with his wife, the president of the municipal DIF, María Eugenia Díaz de López Rosas, signed the agreement "For the Children of Acapulco" with Carrefour. The agreement consists in rounding up the cents of every purchase done by consumers until December.")

"REDONDEO EN BENEFICIO DE NIÑOS DE ESCASOS RECURSOS"

("Rounding up in benefit of poor children")

"actualmente, se analiza la posibilidad de realizar rifas y de pactar con algunos establecimientos comerciales el redondeo de centavos en las compras realizadas por clientes."

("currently, we are considering raffles and agreements with commercial establishments for the rounding up of purchases by consumers")

"De esta forma ha establecido convenios con los Municipios de Guanajuato, con establecimientos comerciales, instituciones bancarias y organizaciones civiles y sociales, para desarrollar proyectos como la venta de monedas conmemorativas, el redondeo de centavos y la aportación de recursos mediante el uso de tarjetas telefónicas Avantel."

("It has established agreements with the municipalities of Guanajuato, commercial establishments, banks, and civil institutions to develop projects such as the sale of commemorative coins, roundup of cents, and donations through Avantel phone cards.)"

Cheers, Itub 15:39, 11 January 2007 (UTC).

Deleted some bills

I've deleted some bills from Commons. For all we know, Mexican bills are copyrighted. This has left some red links in this article, and possibly others. I thought I'd inform you, so that you can fix it in the way you prefer. / Fred-Chess 17:09, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Mex$

Although Mex$ is by no means unheard of, at least según Google, MX$ seems much more common. Wiki Wikardo 04:51, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Nuevo peso

Somebody needs to fix nuevo peso. I see two solutions:

1. Merge content at nuevo peso to here. And turn nuevo peso into a disambig page There is at least a Uruguayan nuevo peso as seen here. But I am not sure if Mexican and Uruguayan are the only two.
2. Make an article for Mexican new peso, split Mexican peso, merge things at nuevo peso to Mexican new peso. Turn nuevo peso a disambig page as option 1.

I'm sorry to be the one who talks but not acts. But I am busy. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 03:11, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

"Nuevo" Peso's legal tender? "B Style"?

So are the Nuevo Peso coin's (the one's that have N$# that were produced 1993-1995), still legal tender in México?

Also, I've seen them refered to as "B Style Peso" with the pre- 1993 being the "A Style" and the current one's the "C Style". Are these terminologies in use?

Gracias, Gecko G 09:49, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Add the new polymer note of 50 Pesos and 20 Pesos

In November 2006, was launched a 50 Pesos note but hasn't actualized since and still is the old 50 Pesos note. The 20 Pesos with new designs will be launched in 4 days (since I comment this) and will have to actualize the page. I can't speak English well, I'm Mexican. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.240.173.51 (talk) 00:08, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

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WORNG

The us dollar is the offical currnecy in the Usa not the Mexican peso —Preceding unsigned comment added by Child Unit Sam (talk • contribs) 03:36, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism by Dove1950

His claims about the Mexican Peso are obviously false to anyone who looks at them. He claims that the US began using the Mexican peso in 1785, but this is impossible because it did not exist. Mexico, did not exist. In 1785 it was part of Spain. Mexico did not exist as a country officially until 1821, and didn't even declare independence until 1813.

The Spanish Dollar was in fact the currency of the Spanish empire, and thus of pre-independence territories which would become Mexico. Please see the following:

Today the term peso is sometimes used interchangeably to include the historic Spanish eight real coin. This is primarily because pesos were of similar weight and diameter to the eight real coin. However, the term peso did not appear on Spanish coinage until 1864, and it is more accurate to refer to the older coinage as the eight real coin, which was also called the Spanish dollar or colloquially "a piece of eight."

See this and more at Spanish Dollar.

Dove1950 continues to vandalize Wikipedia by adding blatantly false information. There is no discussion necessary here, he is wrong as proven by ALL reliable sources. I ask others to please help me in policing against his vandalism. 74.132.178.84 (talk) 17:38, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

There is no vandalism, simply the restoration of removed content. If you wish to edit this content, please do so, but do not simply remove it.
Dove1950 (talk) 15:01, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Stop placing false and unsourced information in the article, it is considered vandalism. 74.132.178.84 (talk) 17:49, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I have again restored the paragraph that 74.132.178.84 keeps on blanking. I request that this user explains his/her reasons without recourse to the entirely inaccurate statement from Spanish dollar (which I have replaced). The Spanish escudo was introduced in 1864, not the peso, which has never been the official name of a Spanish currency. It would be nice to get a reference for the statement "After a decree adopted by the United States on 6 July 1785, the peso became the official currency of most of North America" as this is not as clear as it could be.
Dove1950 (talk) 22:59, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I have again removed the false statements added by Dove1950, which constitute original research, are unsourced, and false. I have additionally removed his false, unsourced statements added by him on the Spanish dollar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.132.178.84 (talk) 00:10, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

As an addendum, I would ask others to help me revert Dove1950's edits, which by this point can only be termed malicious. Mexico did not exist as a country during the time he claims the "Mexican peso" was the US standard currency, so his claims is obviously false. Since this has been pointed out to him repeatedly and yet he continues to add this false information, it can only be concluded that his edits are malicious. 74.132.178.84 (talk) 00:14, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism by 74.132.178.84

74.132.178.84 insists on the existence of a "Spanish peso", introduced in 1864. No such coin exists. He/she further more insists that Mexico did not exist in 1757, despite the fact that Mexico City (the site of the mint) pre-dates Columbus. Note that 74.132.178.84 is also removing the rest of the paragraph, noting the link between the peso and several other currencies, without any explanation. Who's being malicious? I've held off from accusing 74.132.178.84 of vandalism until now, because I thought he/she was trying (rather ineptly) to make a reasonable point. It now seems clear that this is not the case.
Dove1950 (talk) 15:39, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Dove1950 is lying to further his or her vandalism. I have never claimed the "Spanish peso" existed. The US Dollar is based on the Spanish dollar. As for the existence of Mexico, any person with two brain cells to rub together knows that Mexico did not exist in 1757. It was a part of Spain prior to 1810. You can easily verify this information at Mexico. Dove1950 continues to vandalize this page, inserting false information despite having been shown he/she is wrong. The Mexican peso is not verifiably the base of any currency. Dove1950 repeatedly refuses to produce sources for his/her unverified claims. 74.132.178.84 (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I note that even the Mexican Peso article verifies my point, as it indicates Mexico was under the Spanish Dollar until 1821, when the government of Mexico formally came into existance: "After Mexico gained its independence in 1821, the new government continued the Spanish monetary system of 16 silver reales = 1 gold escudo, with the peso of 8 reales the largest silver coin. Paper money was also issued, denominated in pesos.". 74.132.178.84 (talk) 17:59, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Be careful when making accusations of lying. It may come back to haunt you. For instance, you insist on having the sentence "However, the term peso did not appear on Spanish coinage until 1864" in Spanish dollar. This is false. Are you lying by insisting on its inclusion?
You really should read the articles Mexico City, Straits dollar, Hong Kong dollar, Japanese yen and Chinese yuan. There is plenty of evidence in these articles to back up what is written in the section you keep removing. If you go on with your attempts at dis/misinformation, there can be little doubt that your intentions are malign. You are contributing nothing to this article by your edits and I would ask one last time that you either desist or begin a proper process of discussion and editing.
Dove1950 (talk) 18:17, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Some incorrect information.

I've removed some incorrect information in the article. I reproduce removed sections here with sources indicating the removed information was indeed false. The removed section stated:

"After a decree adopted by the United States on 6 July 1785, the peso became the official currency of most of North America; it also became the foundation for the U.S. monetary system, at a rate of one peso to one dollar. The U.S. dollar was not issued until 2 April 1792, but the peso continued to be officially recognized and used until 21 February 1857. In Canada, it remained a legal medium of payment until 1858."

Here is a point by point rebuttal.

• "After a decree adopted by the United States on 6 July 1785, the peso became the official currency of most of North America"

This is false for several reasons. First and foremost, the Mexican peso did not exist at this time. The area now known as Mexico was at that time part of New Spain, and had as its currency the Spanish Dollar. Second, there was a decree on July 6, 1785, about currency but it did not use the Mexican peso, nor the Spanish dollar, but instead created the US Dollar, and set its denominations. The decree itself can be found in the Journals of the Continental Congress, Volume 29, page 500.

• "it also became the foundation for the U.S. monetary system, at a rate of one peso to one dollar. The U.S. dollar was not issued until 2 April 1792"

The Spanish Dollar was the basis for the US currency system. The first Mexican currency was not minted until 1821, and at the time of minting was the reales. 1866 saw the first minting of a Mexican Peso, following the addition of the text "pesatas" to Spanish currency in 1864. Individual colonies minted and printed their own currency valued in US Dollars, with continental notes being issued earlier than the 1785 resolution.

• "In Canada, it remained a legal medium of payment until 1858."

This is false, as the Spanish dollar was never an official currency in Canada. Canada, as a British territory, was under the British pound until 1841, when the Canadian pound was introduced. Spanish dollars (not Mexican pesos) saw some use during this period due to a scarcity of Canadian pounds, but were not an official legal medium of payment. 1858 saw the creation of the Canadian dollar to alleviate the money shortage problem.

I find the other claims in this section highly suspect as well, especially given the above history on this discussion list. I will be researching those topics and posting my conclusions here shortly. -- Jolliette Alice Bessette, -- 21:05, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Straits Dollar

After reviewing the history of the Straits Dollar, I have removed it from the list of currencies which are claimed to have the Mexican Peso as its root. While the Spanish Dollar and Mexican Dollar saw some use in the Straits Settlements, the Straits Dollar was eventually based on the Pound Sterling. Prior to the Straits Dollar being issued, all silver dollars were freely exchanged in the colony as it had no official currency. -- Jolliette Alice Bessette, -- 22:51, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Hong Kong Dollar

Researching the Hong Kong Dollar proves it not to be based on the Mexican Peso. Hong Kong instead saw free trade in many foreign currencies which included the British Pound Sterling (most common), the Spanish Dollar, the Indian Rupee, the Chinese Wen and the Mexican reales. Mexican and Spanish coins were not used as a basis for the HKD, but rather had their values translated into equivalent Pounds Sterling during trades (4 shillings 2 pence). When the HKD was established, its basis was in grams of pure sterling, with 1 HKD worth 24.44 grams of sterling, valuing it at 1 shilling. Both the Mexican reales and Spanish Dollar were valued at approximately 94.5 grams of sterling. Pounds sterling continued to be currency at which the HKD was pegged for it's history. This refutes the claim that the Mexican peso was the basis for the HKD. -- Jolliette Alice Bessette, -- 23:02, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Japanese Yen

I can find no indication that the Mexican peso was ever used in Japan, and the claim that it was the model for the Japanese Yen is false. The Yen was introduced as a replacement for the Mon in 1871, and was an attempt to model the currencies in use in Europe. It simplified the accounting system under the Mon by using decimal subdivisions and pegged the Yen to the gold standard with 1 Yen being worth 0.78 troy ounces of gold, or 24.26g of sterling silver. As shown in my previous comment, this is not based on the Spanish Dollar, or the Mexican peso, as at the time they were worth about 94.5 grams sterling. Much like the HKD, the Japanese Yen appears to have been pegged to the Shilling, as it's approximately that of the Shilling. -- Jolliette Alice Bessette, -- 23:10, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Chinese Yuan

I am unable to find any source other than Wikipedia which states that the Chinese Yuan was initially valued at 1 Mexican Peso. I have asked editors at Chinese Yuan to help me track down a source for this statement. If anyone here has a source for this statement please share it with us. -- Jolliette Alice Bessette, -- 23:44, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Reversion of recent edits

The recent edits by User:Jolliette have been reverted because they removed content. The arguments given above are highly unconvincing. To begin with, there seems to be a misunderstanding as to the Spanish currency. There was never a currency called the peso used in Spain. All arguments based on the assumption that there was are spurious. Second, there is clear evidence that the Mexican peso was an important trade coin in Asia and was adopted in several states as the basis for the States' own currencies.

The Straits dollar was not "based" on the pound. Years after its creation, it was pegged to the pound.

The statement above "When the HKD was established, its basis was in grams of pure sterling, with 1 HKD worth 24.44 grams of sterling, valuing it at 1 shilling." is nonsensical. Clearly there was a link to sterling but this does not disprove that the Mexican peso was the original basis.

As to the Japanese yen, what is a "gram sterling"? Yes, there was a peg to the pound sterling, but that again does not mean that the Mexican peso did not serve as the origin for the yen.

The verification for this and more is to be found at [6], although the author is want to use Mexican peso and Mexican dollar interchangeably.
There is a need to clarify the events of 1785, which is why I originally asked for a citation. I'm afraid that the link Jolliette gave does nothing to say one way or the other as to the origin of the first U.S. dollar.
Dove1950 (talk) 11:15, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I've added a link to a pdf from the Bank of Canada which sets out the legal status of foreign silver (including Mexican) in Canada. Unfortunately, User:74.136.211.15 saw fit to remove it, as he/she is often wont to do. Can I request that this use desists from frequent removal of content. It is unconstructive and will not improve Wikipedia one jot.
Dove1950 (talk) 21:59, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Sir, you are adding false information to Wikipedia. Your source only mentions the Mexican peso once, to mention the effect the 1994 crash of the Peso had on the exchange rate of the Canadian dollar. You can search the document yourself. I think you never read it, and are trying to fill Wikipedia with lies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.136.211.15 (talk) 06:20, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

However many different identities you use, going around making baseless accusations is not going to help you in your quest to remove information from Wikipedia. Please desist from your inappropriate edits and abuse.
Dove1950 (talk) 21:16, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Your source does not support your information. There is no mention of the Mexican Peso on page 23. I have no other identities. I have an IP address. Please stop vandalizing Wikipedia by submitting false information. 74.136.211.15 (talk) 03:55, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Nobody is fooled by your multiple identities so please stop the charade. You could very easily be reported for sock puppetry if you continue. I have clarified the text futher and I look forward to your dropping this pointless attempt to remove content from Wikipedia.
Dove1950 (talk) 16:07, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Nobody is fooled by your continued addition of false information. The Mexican Peso is NOT MENTIONED AS A LEGAL CURRENCY IN CANADA BY YOUR SOURCE. Therefor your source does not support the statements you claim it does. Feel free to report me as a sockpuppet. I'd love to see how you can claim an IP address is "multiple identities". I am proud to defend this article from your false information campaign. 74.136.211.15 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 17:30, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Read the whole booklet. Mexican coins are mentioned several times as circulating in Canada, including on pages 4 and 11. Just for the record, your multiple identities (so far) are 74.136.211.15, Jolliette, 74.132.178.84 and 71.42.153.6.
Dove1950 (talk) 15:48, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I did read the whole booklet, Mexican coins are NOT mentioned on pages 4 and 11. For the record I find it amusing that you think I Have multiple IP addresses (which is impossible), and a User account which I evidently never use. Funny stuff. 74.136.211.15 (talk) 17:45, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

The 8 reales coin was called the peso. Mexican 8 reales coins are pictured in the booklet on pages 4 and 11. The foreign silver made legal tender included Mexican (page 11). The withdrawal of legal tender status is described on page 23. Therefore, the statement is fully justified. Please take your multple identities and make a pain of yourself somewhere else.
Dove1950 (talk) 20:35, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

It never mentions Mexican silver being made legal tender, you can use this for a source on Spanish dollar, but not here. Stop adding false information to Wikipedia. 74.136.211.15 (talk) 23:52, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Gentlemen, please tone it down

We're writing an encyclopedia, not fighting in the streets. I'll note that Dove1950's article does mention the Mexican Peso on the page he mentioned. In either case, please show some respect and manners both of you. -- Jolliette Alice Bessette, -- 17:37, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I have put Dove1950's source for the Canadian use of the Mexcian peso back on the page, as it is indeed correct. -- Jolliette Alice Bessette, -- 17:58, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I searched the whole document for "Mexican"... only two hits, the crash and the index. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.136.211.15 (talk) 16:23, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Then your search feature may be broken, it clearly supports the phrase in the upper right hand corner of the page. -- Jolliette Alice Bessette, -- 18:18, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Response to Dove1950's comments

Dove1950, thanks for your comments on my changes and refutations. I respond to your points below.

Dove1950 writes:
The recent edits by User:Jolliette have been reverted because they removed content. The arguments given above are highly unconvincing. To begin with, 
there seems to be a misunderstanding as to the Spanish currency. There was never a currency called the peso used in Spain. All arguments based on the 
assumption that there was are spurious. Second, there is clear evidence that the Mexican peso was an important trade coin in Asia and was adopted in 
several states as the basis for the States' own currencies.

My edits did not remove content, they removed unsourced, and in a few cases, obviously wrong information. It is not enough to call my arguments "unconvincing", if you would argue the contrapositive, you must do so. First of all, I note I never claim that there was a currency called the peso in Spain. You need to reread my arguments, because if you think I made that claim, you obviously didn't carefully read them in the first place.

The claim that the Mexican peso was the basis for US state currencies is obvious false because Mexico did not exist as a country with its own currency prior to the creation of the US Dollar.

Dove1950 writes:
The statement above "When the HKD was established, its basis was in grams of pure sterling, with 1 HKD worth 24.44 grams of sterling, valuing it at 1 
shilling." is nonsensical. Clearly there was a link to sterling but this does not disprove that the Mexican peso was the original basis.
As to the Japanese yen, what is a "gram sterling"? Yes, there was a peg to the pound sterling, but that again does not mean that the Mexican peso did 
not serve as the origin for the yen.

My apologies for my comment on "gram sterling", I assumed you were familiar with Imperial Measures and therefor would know what a gram of sterling silver was. The HKD and Japanese Yen were clearly based on the Shilling which was worth one gram of sterling silver. This was done at their conception which dispoves the Mexican peso as their original basis.

Dove1950 writes:
There is a need to clarify the events of 1785, which is why I originally asked for a citation. I'm afraid that the link Jolliette gave does nothing to  
say one way or the other as to the origin of the first U.S. dollar.

Actually it does say "one way". As the claim in the article is that this very law instated the Mexican peso as legal tender, and yet the law does not in fact state that, it disproves the claim that the Mexican Peso was made legal tender by this law. Additionally since the Mexican peso was not yet created by 1785, it could not be made legal tender. The Mexican peso was not minted, nor conceived prior to Mexican independence from Spain. -- Jolliette Alice Bessette, -- 17:54, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Nice try, but having an argument with yourself is not going to convince anybody. As to your responses, the statement "The HKD and Japanese Yen were clearly based on the Shilling which was worth one gram of sterling silver." is clear fantasy and strongly suggests malicious intent. The other responses are little better.
Dove1950 (talk) 20:18, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I have proved the assertion above about the worth of the HKD and Japanese Yen. If you would like to rebutt my arguments, do so, do not respond with ad hominem. I will ignore your baser comments, and hope you respond with logic and well reasoned arguments. -- Jolliette Alice Bessette, -- 21:29, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Jolliette clearly has the wrong numeric information

• Jolliette: When the HKD was established, its basis was in grams of pure sterling, with 1 HKD worth 24.44 grams of sterling, valuing it at 1 shilling. Both the Mexican reales and Spanish Dollar were valued at approximately 94.5 grams of sterling. Pounds sterling continued to be currency at which the HKD was pegged for it's history. [7].

The first statement is about right. I have Krause, Chester L.; Clifford Mishler (2004). Standard Catalog of World Coins: 1801–1900. Colin R. Bruce II (senior editor) (4th ed.). Krause Publications. ISBN 0873497988. as my reference. The earliest HKD/JPY was 0.78 troy ounce of pure silver from an alloy that is 90% silver. 1 troy ounce = 31.1034768 grams, so 0.78 tr. oz. =~ 24.26 g (of pure silver). So your first statement is correct. But it not equal to 1 shilling. 1 shilling in mid 1800s was 5.6552 grams of 92.5% silver.

Your next statement about the Mexican real and Spanish dollar was also incorrect. 8 Mexican reales or 8 Spanish reales in most of the 1800s was 27.07 grams of 90.3% silver. 27.07 × 90.3% = 24.44. Where does your 94.5 come from? How many different types of grams are there?

Your third statement is also wrong. [8] states that from 1863-1935, it was a period when "Silver dollars as legal tender". Not sterling, not pound.

Sterling silver says it's 92.5% pure silver and my catalog shows that British silver coins in the 1800s are indeed 92.5% pure silver. It is clearly a different standard from the peso/dollar/yen group. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 21:58, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your response and corrections Chochopk. I'll have to go over my math again, it is possible I made a mistake somewhere. I will work out everything again and verify. -- Jolliette Alice Bessette, -- 22:26, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Value of HKD relative to Peso

I've started a new section, I hope no one minds terribly. Here is my math and reasoning:

 
  Sterling Silver = 92.5% pure silver.
1845: Hong Kong pegs Spanish and Mexican Reales at 4 shilling 2 pence.
  4/20 + 2/240 = 0.208333 pounds sterling.
  0.208333 * 0.925 = 0.1927 pounds pure silver
1863: Hong Kong dollar first issued, pegged at 24.44 grams pure silver
  24.44 grams pure silver = 0.0538 pounds pure silver
  0.0538 pounds pure silver = 0.0581 pounds sterling silver

For reference:
  1 shilling = 0.05 pounds sterling silver
             = 0.04625 pounds pure silver
  1 pence    = 0.00416 pounds sterling silver
             = 0.00385 pounds pure silver

So yes, you're right, it isn't equal to one shilling, I must have been tired or hasty when performing my previous calculations, but I will note that it is also not based on the Mexican silver coin. The HKD is worth 1 shilling, and 2 pence. The Mexican peso at the time was worth 4 shilling 2 pence. Both are simply pegged to a common standard of pounds sterling which does not suggest the HKD is based on the Peso, but rather was based on an exchange of pounds sterling, and divisions there of. -- Jolliette Alice Bessette, -- 22:43, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Here is the Japanese Yen:

 
  Japanese Yen is introduced and valued at 24.26g pure silver
  24.26g pure silver = 0.0535 pounds pure silver
                     = 0.0494 pounds sterling silver

Here I was correct as the Japanese yen is indeed worth roughly 1 shilling. The minor sub pence discrepancy is due to the Japanese utilization of the gold standard instead of the silver standard. So the value of the Japanese yen was 1 shilling, as approximated by the ratio of the price between gold and silver (1 yen = 1.5grams gold) -- Jolliette Alice Bessette, -- 22:53, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

In the 19th century, 1 pound sterling did not mean 1 pound weight of sterling silver. At that time, 66 shillings in silver coins weighed 1 pound, not 20. Armed with that piece of information, you will realise that your maths is off by a factor of more than three.
Dove1950 (talk) 23:11, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

It appears you are right sir, here are the modifications, taking that into account:

 
  Sterling Silver = 92.5% pure silver.
  1 lb sterling silver = 66 shillings
  1 shilling = 0.01515 lbs sterling
  1 pence    = 0.00126 lbs sterling

1845: Hong Kong pegs Spanish and Mexican Reales at 4 shilling 2 pence.
  1 peso     = 0.03535 lbs sterling

1863: Hong Kong dollar first issued, pegged at 24.44 grams pure silver
  24.44 g    =  0.05388 lbs sterling
             =  3.556 shilling
             = 42.673 pence
             =  1.534 pesos

 
  Japanese Yen is introduced and valued at 24.26g pure silver
  24.26 g    = 0.05348 lbs sterling
             = 3.5299 shilling
             = 42.359 pence
             = 0.9926 pesos

From this we cannot reasonably conclude any relationship between HKD and either Pesos nor Pounds, but it does appear there is a likely relationship between Yen and Pesos. -- Jolliette Alice Bessette, -- 03:21, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid that your calculation is wrong again. I'm not sure how you derive 42.673 pence = 1.534 pesos for HKD, whereas 42.359 pence = 0.9926 pesos. I'm not used to the Imperial unit. I will repeat and reorganize my data in a tabular fashion:

value	mass of alloy (g)	purity	real content (g)
MXP/8MXR/8ESR	27.07	90.3%	24.44421
HKD/JPY	26.9568-27.25	90%	0.78 troy oz = 24.26071 g
1 shilling	5.6552	92.5%	5.23106
1 shilling × 42⁄12			21.79608
1 shilling × 48⁄12			24.41161

So my conclusion is that MXP = 8ESR = HKD = JPY ≈ 4s 8d (by pure content, but some other sources says 4s2d)

See also User:Chochopk/Latin Monetary Union unit for much more numeric detail. [9] also confirms my claim. The page is large, search for the string "27 April 1842 made Mexican and other similar silver dollars the standard". This web page from the Hong Kong authority also says that the HKD was based from MXP/ESD.

• Just because HK was a British colony doesn't mean it had to peg its currency with the pound sterling. Trade is what matters. Political sovereignty does not. Examples supporting my claim including modern day HK (pegged with USD), Cayman Islands (pegged with USD), and British Virgin Islands (uses USD)
• If you were using Mexican and Spanish coins already, why would you define your new currency with a weird number (4s2d) that happens to be equal to 1 MXP/ESD? Obviously HKD was based on MXP/ESD. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 09:15, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree on the Japanese yen based on your information, and my calculations. They do appear to be linked so it seems likely the yen was based on the peso. It is not the same for the HKD. The HKD was traded at an explicitly different rate than the Peso. The peso was pegged by law to 4 shillings 2 pence. My numbers for the HKD are based on this pegging, as it was the exchange used for Pesos in HK when the HKD was established. -- Jolliette Alice Bessette, -- 00:11, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

As an additional point Your source does not in fact say the HKD was based from MXP/ESD. It says instead that "In addition, Spanish and Mexican silver dollars were used for international trade," and that an HKD was issued in silver due to the fact that "The government found it impossible even to collect revenue in sterling". Their reliance on silver dollars is not the same as being based on the Peso. In fact their use of the term dollar suggests more basis on the Spanish dollar, than anything else. -- Jolliette Alice Bessette, -- 00:14, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I have repeated pointed out that HKD = JPY, and you agree that JPY = MXP. This web page says HKD = 4s 2d, and you says MXP = 4s 2d. Please explain to me why HKD ≠ MXP. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 14:28, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Japanese yen

I have added the conclusions derived above about the likely origin of the Japanese yen. However since these conclusions are the derivative of original research and have not yet been confirmed by sources, I have added the Original research warning to the section and tagged the statement about the Yen with a FACT tag. I'll be looking for sources which confirm this basis and would appreciate other's help in clarifying this matter. -- Jolliette Alice Bessette, -- 00:18, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

• Bank of Japan Currency Museum: "silver coins as in the modern western countries ... settling trades with other countries along the Pacific Ocean". This obviously refers to Hong Kong and Mexico.
• Global Financial Data - Japan - "The Yen was initially set at par with the US Dollar."
• BOJ Establishment of the Gold Standard "in Asia the Mexican dollar silver coin was widely used as a trading currency"

From this we can conclude that the yen was created so that the unit is the same as all of its trading partners, including HK, US, and most of Asia Pacific that uses the MXP. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 14:28, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your hard work Chochopk. I advise we remove the disputed tags, and add your sources. -- Jolliette Alice Bessette, -- 19:20, 3 February 2008 (UTC)