Talk:Brazil

Per capita GDP of Brazilian states.

Perhaps someone would include the following map link from "The Economist" magazine's Brazil Survey in April 2007. It highlights the great regional disparities of this continent-sized country. http://www.economist.com/images/20070414/CSU926.gif

Vivaldi4Stagioni 23:17, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

See List of Brazilian states by GDP per capita. Felipe C.S ^{( talk )} 23:49, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Dear Felipe, The difference between the Economist map and the one you refer to is that the former shows the figures according to Purchasing-Power Parity (PPP), a much better way of demonstrating the actual standard of living.

Vivaldi4Stagioni 00:00, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

It might be a good idea to talk about this later. It's a valid point, but let's take care of one problem at a time. Sparks1979 21:13, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Archive

The talk page has been quiet for over a week and the past discussions were taking a lot of space, so I just sent them to "archive 5". If anyone one wants to debate the same topics again, please restart here. Sparks1979 17:00, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Brazilwood (pau brasil) grows mostly along the Atlantic coast and not along the Amazon. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilwood —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.168.127.10 (talk) 22:02, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Text changes (again)

Brazil-American Relations & Industrialization

Hello, I am a student at University of Toronto and one of my assignments was to make an article for Wikipedia. I chose Brazil-American relations and industrialization on which I wrote about. After writing the article however, I don’t think I posted it properly in congruence with the rest of the section in which I posted my article in: Brazilian Military and Foreign Relations. If anyone can please give me some feedback on the article itself or on the manner in which I can better fit my content, that would be great. Thanks.--HoriaG (talk) 11:40, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

The article need of some alterations for a possible Featured Article Nominee. These changes are mainly concentrated in the "Administrative divisions" and "Geography" sections.

• "Etymology"

In my opinion, this section is too short. Something needs to be changed. We eliminate it or expand it.

• "Administrative divisions"

This section can be expanded. The section could be divided in two sub-sections: "Regions" and "States". However, regions aren't administrative divisions, them are geographic divisions promoted by the IBGE for statistical ends, as the similarity of the States.

The current text was written of "geographic" form and occults the history of the political division of Brazil, the territorial levels (captainships, provinces, territories, states, cities, neutral cities, districts), the annexation and loss of territorial areas. The different divisions in the Colonial, Imperial and Republican periods, need to be shown.

An introduction showing the general history of the Brazilian territorial politics, and the "Regions" and "States" sub-sections detailing its subjects, would make an excellent section.

• "Geography"

In my opnion, this section can be expanded. The content is very reduced and the introduction is minimum, the section needs alterations urgently.

The "Climate" sub-section can be summarized. Average temperatures of the cities aren't so important how much the climatic differences of Brazil. The text could give more emphasis to the diversity, like the wet climate of the Amazonian Forest, the Northeast dry climate, the cold climate of the South… Citations of the registered records temperatures already would be excellent. This would better demonstrate the climate of Brazil.

• "Culture"

The "Sports" subsection can be summarized.

Regards; Felipe C.S ^{( talk )} 21:54, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Image changes (again)

"Environment" subsection

Option 1	Option 2
The Toco Toucan is a typical animal of the Brazilian rain forests.	Onça is a typical animal of the Brazilian rain forests.

Option 1

• Support - The onça's distribution goes all the way up to Mexico--it's not an animal exclusive or present mostly in Brazil. The Toucan can, at least claim to be present mostly in Brazil.----Dali-Llama 21:50, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
• SupportOpinoso 00:40, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Option 2

• Support - Felipe C.S ^{( talk )} 21:14, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

"Social issues" subsection

Option 1	Option 2
Located between some of the richest areas of Rio de Janeiro, the Vidigal favela' is testimony to high economic inequality within Brazil.	Located between some of the richest areas of Rio de Janeiro, the Rocinha favela' is testimony to high economic inequality within Brazil.

Option 1

Option 2

• Support - Felipe C.S ^{( talk )} 21:14, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
• Support--Dali-Llama 21:50, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

"Sports" subsection

Option 1	Option 2	Option 3
File:Abertura Jogos Panamericanos 1 13072007 edit.jpg Maracanã Stadium at the 2007 Pan American Games.	The Brazilian athletes at the 2007 Pan American Games.	The Maracanã Stadium at the Brazilian Championship.

Option 1

Option 2

Option 3

• Support - Felipe C.S ^{( talk )} 21:14, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand this last sports vote--are you proposing to replace both with only one?--Dali-Llama 21:50, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Felipe C.S ^{( talk )} 22:01, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Jesus Christ...Why are you posting the same stuff? The Sports session has already been voted, the pictures have already been choosen.

This article only has pictures of constructions and politicians. What is this obssession with posting pictures of buildings and other constructions?

Give it up. Opinoso 00:37, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Leave the sports section as is for now. Let's let things settle.--Dali-Llama 02:55, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I propose a text change in this: "They have been victorious in the World Cup tournament a record five times, in 1958, 1962, 1970, 1994 and 2002." To "Brazilians have been victorious in the World Cup tournament a record five times, in 1958, 1962, 1970, 1994 and 2002." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tchico (talk • contribs) 00:39, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Template for Brazilian states

I created a template for use with all brazilian states. I followed the model used by Template:Infobox Country. Some pages, like States of USA, Provinces and territories of Canada, States and territories of Australia, States of Malaysia and all Regional blocs already use this model. So, I think that will be good if Brazil use to standardize. If the template is missing some information, there is no problem in add.
But, Felipe C.S prefers use the model adopt by Portuguese Wikipedia. In his opinion, the appearence is better. — Guilherme ^(t/c) 17:39, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Some pages, like States and territories of India, States of Germany, Provinces of Argentina, Regions of Italy and France already don't use this model... Felipe C.S ^{( talk )} 15:05, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Option 1: Template:Infobox Brazilian State	Option 2: Template talk:Infobox Brazilian State

Option 1

• Support — Guilherme ^(t/c) 16:06, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Option 2

• Support - Felipe C.S ^{( talk )} 21:49, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

João Felipe C.S, give it up!

Can't you see NOBODY wants to discuss with you here? Nobody here in interested in your horrible changes in Wikipedia.

Let the article the way it is. You had enough fun here, kid. The article is all done but, as you have nothing else to do here, you spend hours trying to find something to change.

What is your problem, child? Why can't you accept Brazil the way it is? Why do you keep erasing the picture of Ipanema beach in the article Rio de Janeiro and posting a dark image to hide the beach?

What do you have against Brazilian beaches, Black Brazilians, poor people and Brazil's carnival?

Why do you insist in creating a fake Brazil: blond supermodels, cold weather, high-tech cities, rich people??

Why do you try to paint Brazil as a copy of Europe?

I wonder, have you ever been out of your house? You need to travel more, kid. Ask your father to leave you go a little around. Because everybody here is laughing at you and at your non-sense.

All I have to say to you, João Felipe C.S: learn some English and...GIVE IT UP. Opinoso 22:38, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Instead of criticizing and berating other editors, how about participating in the discussion in a constructive manner? I'd honestly recommend Felipe not to reply to this thread.--Dali-Llama 01:17, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Stop hating so much! D4RK-L3G10N (talk) 18:26, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Leader box in country's profile

I added three more, as I saw a number of countries with a more complete list too, like Nigeria and USA. User Green Giant thought it made it confusing, but he agreed with me in the end. Then Opinoso undid it, giving no reason at all, so I undid his undo (!). I can see that he already did some other mistakes here in his mindless correcting berserk, hehe. Untouchable777, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I personally think it's fine to add these titles. If you have two people reverting one editor, it's fine, but always use edit summaries.--Dali-Llama (talk) 18:40, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Brazil is already the 6th largest economy

According to World Bank's International Comparison Program (ICP 2007), Brazil has already the 6th largest economy (PPP). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trabalhosgv (talk • contribs) 00:30, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I believe it's actually 10th if you consider the decimals.--Dali-Llama (talk) 18:41, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

destroys areas the size of a small country each year

destroys areas the size of a small country each year

What is a "small country"? Can somebody improve this? --Taraborn (talk) 23:27, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Minor edits

I changed some sentences in order to avoid ludicrous POV and the unencyclopedic "that wasn't our fault" and "Portuguese - bad; Brazilian - good (excelent)" feel which characterize this article and other related articles. Pularoid (talk) 16:08, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Luiz InÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁ...

is it just on my side or the links for articles with characters like "á" in the name are producing bogus links when clicked? (with what seems to be a random number of characters repeated, usually an upper-case version of the non-english character, but I thikn I've seen different a couple of times)--TiagoTiago (talk) 06:28, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Introduction

It's too huge an introduction. Check Argentina or Guyana for instance. Janiovj (talk) 21:18, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Agreed.

Lead section

The article should start with a good introduction, giving name of the country, location in the world, bordering countries, seas and the like. Also give other names by which the country may still be known (for example Holland, Persia). Also, add a few facts about the country, the things that it is known for (for example the mentioning of windmills in the Netherlands article).

If the etymology of a country's name is too long to explain in the lead section, split it out into a separate section (titled "Name" or similar). Naming disputes can also be handled in separate sections.

See also: Wikipedia:Lead section —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mhsb (talk • contribs)

Stop changing the article without asking people's opinion.

You used Brazil's stereotypes such as "carnival, beaches". I am from Brazil and where I live there are no beaches or carnival.

Stop trying to give stereotypes to a country. By the way, why did you erase the part about social issues? Are you trying to hide Brazil is a violent country with millions of poor people?

Stop this or I will ask some administrator to block you from wikipedia. Opinoso (talk) 17:19, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Opinoso, please no threats on Wikipedia. Carlosguitar ^{(ready and willing)} 07:58, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Crime and Social issues

Hi. I recently removed a section on Social Issues, but if someone here is against this change, let's open a discussion here. It's widely understood that virtually every country in Latin America have the same issues with crime and social issues one of the main subjects. Nevertheless, only Brazil and Colombia articles contemplate those section on their pages. I struggled to insert a section about crime in Mexico, but it seems that the editors there are more patriotic than the editors of this article...--Mhsb (talk) 23:03, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Mhsb, disrupting other articles to make a point is point-blank unacceptable. Your accusations about "patriotism" driving editors to "struggle" against you is uncalled for. I kindly ask you to stop this attitude. As we have already told you in Talk:Mexico, we do not, I will make it clear DO NOT oppose a section on crime. We oppose the tendentious way in which you with to present the information. Please do not produce edit-wars in other articles just because you want to make a point. --the Dúnadan 00:33, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Dúnadan]]

Are you going to contribute to this article? If not, I kindly ask you not to disrupt if you are not contributing to the article. What I proposed here is to summarise the introduction, it's simple too big. I am also proposing in removing the section about crime. If someone thinks that this is unreasonable, please feel free to revert my changes, but please, have a discussion here as well. Brazil and Colombia are the only two Latim American countries that contemplate such section. Cheers. --Mhsb (talk) 02:55, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I will be glad to discuss these issues and I agree to summarize the social section as Mhsb suggested. We should keep in mind to not undue weight of this article. Carlosguitar ^{(ready and willing)} 07:54, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I would like to bring to the discussion the topic about social issues. The reason why I removed the section, as I had already explained is that this section is tendentious, thus violating NPOV, it's not acurate. I am not proposing to hide social issues on Brazil, but I am proposing to re-edit the section to a more encyclopedic version with neutral point of view. I pasted below the section for further discussion:

Social issues

Main articles: Social issues in Brazil and Crime in Brazil

Located between some of the richest areas of Rio de Janeiro, the Rocinha favela is testimony to high economic inequality within Brazil.

Brazil has been unable to reflect its recent economic achievements into social development. Poverty, urban violence, growing social security debts, inefficient public services, and the low value of the minimum wage are some of the main social issues that currently challenge the Brazilian government. The rate of poverty is in part attributed to the country's economic inequality. Brazil ranks among the world's highest nations in the Gini coefficient index of inequality assessment. According to Fundação Getúlio Vargas, in 2006 the rate of people living below the poverty line based on labour income was of 19.31% of the population — a 33% reduction considering the previous three years.

Poverty in Brazil is most visually represented by the various favelas, slums in the country's metropolitan areas and remote upcountry regions that suffer with economic underdevelopment and below-par standards of living. There are also great differences in wealth and welfare between regions. While the Northeast region has the worst economic indicators nationwide, many cities in the South and Southeast enjoy First World socioeconomic standards, with roughly 23.8 homicides per 100,000 residents. The level of violence in some large urban centers is comparable to that of a war zone. Analysts generally suggest the alarming social inequality as the major reason behind this problem. Muggings, robberies, kidnappings and gang violence are common in the largest cities. Police brutality and corruption are widespread. Innefficient public services, especially those related to security, education and health, severely affect quality of life. Minimum wages fail in fulfilling the constitutional requirements set in article 7, IV, regarding living standards. Brazil currently ranks 70th in the Human Development Index list, with a high HDI (0,800). The social security system is considered unreliable and has been historically submerged in large debts and graft, which have been steadily increasing along the 1990s.

The section has several inconsistencies, several statements are unreferenced. The topic is about social issues, but it creates a link to crime as well without providing any reference to support that argument. Examples:

Several statements extracted from the text are not supported by references, for instance:

• Brazil has been unable to reflect its recent economic achievements into social development
• The rate of poverty is in part attributed to the country's economic inequality
• Analysts generally suggest the alarming social inequality as the major reason behind this problem.

Tendentious argumentation:

• Muggings, robberies, kidnappings[129] and gang violence[130] are common in the largest cities.
• Brazil currently ranks 70th in the Human Development Index list, with a high HDI (0,800).
• The social security system is considered unreliable and has been historically submerged in large debts and graft, which have been steadily increasing along the 1990s

And much more I would lik to discuss.--Mhsb (talk) 11:25, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

The social issues is a perfect session. If you do not agree with the statements, you cannot erase them. This is vandalism and you should be blocked for this. Opinoso (talk) 17:33, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

No, it is far to be a "perfect section", this section is heavy disputed and has problem with undue weight of articles. Opinoso please stop with your personal attacks and threats. Carlosguitar ^{(ready and willing)} 07:09, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

It seems that the user Opinoso didn't understand, literally, anything that I proposed. Let's discuss the section about social issues and them we can move to the introduction arena. I raised several concerns about this section but you did not answer a single one, you just expressed your opnion that this section is a perfect one. Where are the references for your argumentation:

• Brazil has been unable to reflect its recent economic achievements into social development - From what source did you get that? This seems to be original resource and that is not allowed on Wikipedia.

• The rate of poverty is in part attributed to the country's economic inequality - From where did you get that? This is highly debatable and there is no consensus among scholars linking the two issues.

• Analysts generally suggest the alarming social inequality as the major reason behind this problem. - My God! Which analysts? Where are the references?

Please Opinoso, respond my concerns and let's discuss this in a civil manner. You a calling the changes I made in the page of vandalism and threatening of blocking me. Please, bear in mind that this violates Wikimedia policies such as Wikipedia:NLT and Wikipedia:No personal attacks. Please, let's discuss it in a civil manner, be constructive and please, answer my concerns.--Mhsb (talk) 22:30, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Mhsb, I agree with issues that you brought. We may remove this section, reword or summarize to fix the issues which you brought. Carlosguitar ^{(ready and willing)} 07:09, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Changes to the article

Social issues section and Introduction

I am addressing to Opinoso because he/she is the first user to object to my recent edits. I think you misunderstood me. You even didn't read the discussion page, I kindly ask you to do so before making false acusations against me. I changed the article but I asked for the opnion of other users, please the page above. I don't think we should include a section on social issues since most of the countries in Latin America don't contemplate that very section. With regard to the size of introduction, I think it's too long, my edits suits the recomendations of Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countries‎, that I will repeat here:

Lead section

The article should start with a good introduction, giving name of the country, location in the world, bordering countries, seas and the like. Also give other names by which the country may still be known (for example Holland, Persia). Also, add a few facts about the country, the things that it is known for (for example the mentioning of windmills in the Netherlands article).

If the etymology of a country's name is too long to explain in the lead section, split it out into a separate section (titled "Name" or similar). Naming disputes can also be handled in separate sections.

See also: Wikipedia:Lead section

So, "by things that it is known for" what I meant is that Brazil is known overseas by its beaches, beautiful women and the carnival. If you have a personal opnion on the matter, you are violating the NPOV and this is not good argument. Please, I am trying to discuss the changes on the article pacifically, don't make false acusations, don't call my edits of vandalism. I kindly ask for your proposals here in the page. Cheers.--Mhsb (talk) 02:32, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Mhsb, stop erasing important informations and adding unsourced stuff.

Did you do an international reaserch to know what Brazil is know for? Where are you researches to say that "country is famous worldwide for its annual carnival celebrations, soccer players, beaches and its abundant wildlife".

Where are you reaserches?

By the way, this is an encyclopedia, and we should avoid stereotypes. We must focus in the truth, not what a country is known for.

Why are you trying to do stereotypes to Brazil such as "beautiful women?". Brazil has no more beautiful women than the rest of the world. Why are you trying to sell this idea? Where is your reaserch saying that Brazilian women are prettier than the other Human being?

I am from Brazil and where I live there are no beaches or carnival. Most Brazilians cities DO NOT have carnival celebrations

Millions of Brazilians live in the interior of the country and do not have any contact with "beaches".

I do not fit in your stereotypes and most Brazilians don't either.

How about "abundant wildlife". Are you talking about Brazil or just a few big towns like São Paulo or Rio?

Millions of Brazilians live in small and quiet towns, where this wildlife style does not fit.

Are you trying to sell the idea that Brazilians do not work and party all day?

Most Brazilians work hard and do not have time to party all day as you are trying to sell. Mhsb, if you don't work, party all day in the beach, play soccer, you are a minority.

Don't try to fit Brazilians in stereotypes.

By the way, why are you erasing the social issues information? Are you trying to hide the bad things of Brazil?

You argue that Latin American articles do not have social issue session. This is not an excuse.

You cannot erase entire sessions here without asking people's opinion.

Stop trying to impose your ideas. Stop giving stereotypes to Brazil.

By the way, if you want to write in Wikipedia, be sure you can write in an acceptable English:

"Brazil is the only portuguese speaking country in Latin America". You must write Portuguese.

It makes me sick to see people trying to sell the idea Brazil is a country where nobody works, everybody party all day naked in a carnival parade.

Most Brazilians don't do this and do not agree with this.

Mhsb, if you do not have the capacity to discern reality from fantasy, should be exempt from writing in Wikipédia.Opinoso (talk) 17:20, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Again Opinoso is making personal attacks, saying that I do not have the capacity to discern reality from fantasy, a clear violation of Wikipedia Policies. The modification I proposed for the Introduction complies with WikiProject Countries‎ but it seems that you simply negleted my arguments. Please, I ask you again to remain civil! I think that the introduction page is too big and so does the User:Janiovj. I made some proposals to reduce the size of the topic but all you did was to revert my changes and correct my grammar. You didn't understand the meaning of the phrase "abundant wildlife", creating a strange link with "wild life", which has a different meaning. You asked me why am I erasing the social issues information, which evidences the fact you haven't read anything that I proposed. I kindly ask you to make a constructive discussion about the matter. BTW, stop editing my page. Cheers.--Mhsb (talk) 22:47, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Third opinion

To his credit, when Mhsb said "abundant wildlife", that does not refer to a "wild life style", but to an abundance of plants and animals of many types and species, which I think you would agree that Brazil does have.

On the other hand, I think it was wrong of Mhsb to make significant changes (such as drastically shortening the introduction) without *first* discussing it. Major changes to format and content should not be done without discussion. Bishop^ (talk) 21:37, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I moved the comments from User:Opinoso from the page Talk:Mexico to here since his comments on that page is unconstructive for that article.--Mhsb (talk) 22:53, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Mhsb is disturbing many articles. In Brazil he is erasing information, including non-sense stuff in the article and creating an edit-war.

Please, somebody stop him. Opinoso (talk) 19:44, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Some remarks from User:Opinoso

• Millions of Brazilians live in the interior of the country and do not have any contact with "beaches".

I will catch that as (correct me if I am wrong):

• Millions of Brazilians live inland and do not have any contact with "beaches".

This contradicts with several references that cleary state that Brazil's population is mostly concentrated alongside the coast.

• It makes me sick to see people trying to sell the idea Brazil is a country where nobody works, everybody party all day naked in a carnival parade.
• Are you trying to sell the idea that Brazilians do not work and party all day?

Can you please indicate where did I say that???

Below are some references to support my arguments that Brazil is famous overseas by its annual carnival celebrations, its beautiful beaches and its wildlife (Flora and Fauna):

Famous Carnival celebrations:

• http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4749594.stm
• http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7220000/newsid_7225500/7225537.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&asb=1&news=1&bbcws=1
• http://www.brazilcarnival2008.com/

Famous Beaches:

• http://www.gringoguides.com/beach.shtml
• http://www.lonelyplanet.com/theme/beaches/be_copacabana.htm
• http://www.copacabana.info/
• http://www.frommers.com/destinations/brazil/0813020110.html

Abundant Wildlife:

• http://www.vivatravelguides.com/south-america/brazil/brazil-articles/brazils-pantanal-amazingly-rich-in-wildlife/
• http://www.frommers.com/destinations/brazil/0813020325.html
• http://www.surtrek.com/pantanal_wildlife_brazil.html

Famous soccer players:

• http://www.soccer-fans-info.com/famous-soccer-players.html
• http://www.soccerandequipment.com/famous-soccer-players.html

--Mhsb (talk) 00:01, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I think there is a confusion as to what constitutes a source to cite a claim. What you are actually doing is WP:OR. Let me cite, from that same link:

"Material can often be put together in a way that constitutes original research even if its individual elements have been published by reliable sources. Synthesizing material occurs when an editor tries to demonstrate the validity of his or her own conclusions by citing sources that when put together serve to advance the editor's position. If the sources cited do not explicitly reach the same conclusion, or if the sources cited are not directly related to the subject of the article, then the editor is engaged in original research."

Indeed, carnivals and a passion for soccer are distinctive traits of Brazilian culture; and Brazil has an extraordinary wildlife. However, you are claiming that "Brazil is famous overseas because of" such traits. None of your sources make that claim. These traits are known, but so are other characteristics, both positive and negative, and your selection of three traits is rather subjective. Moreover, citing instances does not prove your claim, and some of the sources above cannot pass the reliability test. I could provide 20 international links that talk about favelas, but that does not prove that "Brazil is famous known overseas because of the favelas". That is Original Research.

--the Dúnadan 00:16, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

There is a little problem with the phrase you've used. I never proposed to write to the introduction that "Brazil is famous overseas...", if you scroll up the page you'll notice that I actually wrote:

"Brazil is known overseas...

--Mhsb (talk) 00:44, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

True, I corrected my statement. My claim, however, remains the same. Brazil could be known by a thousand things. Listing instances of things does not prove a claim. Citing a valid reputable source that explicitly states your conclusion, would prove your claim. That is the summary of my arguments above, but feel free to review them. --the Dúnadan 00:48, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if you had a chance to read the article but the article itself contemplates part of my statements:

Brazil's large area comprises different ecosystems, which together sustain some of the world's greatest biodiversity...

...There is a general consensus that Brazil has the highest number of both terrestrial vertebrates and invertebrates of any single country in the world...

(futebol) is the most popular sport in Brazil.[145] The Brazilian national football team (Seleção) is currently ranked second in the world according to the FIFA World Rankings. They have been victorious in the World Cup tournament a record five times, in 1958, 1962, 1970, 1994 and 2002. Basketball, volleyball, auto racing, and martial arts also attract large audiences...

--Mhsb (talk) 01:03, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I guess you still do not understand what WP:CITE means. Ignoring the rest of the less-than-reliable sources you provided, let's focus on the first. Maybe a clear illustrative example will help you undestand. What does it say? Well it says: "One of the world's biggest carnival celebrations has officially started in the Brazilian city of Rio de Janeiro."[1]. Well, what can you claim? Well, you can claim that "One of the world's biggest carnival celebrations" is Rio de Jainero's. Nothing more, and nothing else. You cannot claim that "Brazil is famour—er—known overseas because of the carnival. Of the thousands of things by which Brazil is known overseas, the carnival is just one, and your source doesn't make that categorical claim. To use a collection of source to make a point that neither source is making, is WP:OR, and WP:TEND. Is it clear know? --the Dúnadan 01:16, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't think you read the references I posted to support my arguments.... Please, read the references first and make a constructive discussion to the topic. Cheers. --Mhsb (talk) 01:32, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I would be more than happy to cite each and every one of references. Could you cite a sentence from your list of references that say "Brazil is known for..."? (Perhaps a tourist brochure...). Cheers! --the Dúnadan 01:34, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

The article below clearly express my statement about carnival in Brazil:

...In many parts of the world, where Catholic Europeans set up colonies and entered into the slave trade, carnival took root. Brazil, once a Portuguese colony, is famous for its carnival, as is Mardi Gras in Louisiana...

Note that now I am using the word famous...

link: http://www.allahwe.org/aboutus.html

--Mhsb (talk) 01:37, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

You actually mean this link: [2]? OK, good enough, that source (not the rest) can serve as a claim that "Brazil is known or famous for its Carnival". As to why do you select three traits as the paramount exemplary traits above others, that remains to be discussed. --the Dúnadan 01:50, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Exactly! That's why I am discussing it here, otherwise this would be an imposition of ideas right?--Mhsb (talk) 02:06, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I am sorry, but I did not understand your previous comment, especially given the edit-war you engaged with Opinoso. --the Dúnadan 03:34, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Latin America

Latin America is one of the subdvisions of the american continent.Every time that i look to this articule i see Brazil is the biggest economy of latin america,the biggest... of latin america. But this is obviously, because it is the biggest country in Latin America , has the biggest population.So why don't put of The Americas instead of Latin America?Because the continent is only one!America.The USA is trying to sepate the things, HAVE YOU EVER SAW THINGS LIKE FRANCE IS THE BIGGEST ECONOMY OF THE LATIN EUROPE?No you hear things like France is the fourth largest economy in Europe. Continents are divided by geographic not language or some other thing.Like south asia , middle east. Augusto Fontes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.17.99.243 (talk) 02:02, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

First, "Latin America" is a recognized "grouping" of countries. It is as valid a criterion as geography for specifying a particular group of nations. The term has a great deal of historical weight and current usage, unlike your made-up "Latin Europe". It largely serves to differentiate the Spanish- and Portuguese-speaking countries from "Anglo-America", the places where English is primarily spoken. Even as distinguished a publication as The Economist has a section on their web site for "Latin American Economies".

Please don't create controversy where none exists. Brazil may have the largest population in Latin America, but that doesn't mean it's the biggest of everything. Mexico has a higher GDP per capita, for example. Bishop^ (talk) 16:27, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Latin America is a geopolitical region characterized by language, culture and similitudes in economy. It is used by the United Nations, the World Bank, the IMF, etc. --the Dúnadan 03:19, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I think I got the point of 201.17.99.243, but unfortunately I disagree. Latin America is a well established concept in any literature the same way we call the residents of the USA of Americans. One would say that a Latin American is an American as well, but this would create further confusion because everyone knows that Americans are the citizens of the USA.--Mhsb (talk) 06:31, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Population alongside the coast

Hi... Some people are getting wrong. Saying that most of Brazilian population lives alongside the coast does not mean that they live in coast cities. The statement (correct) means that, considering the dimension of the country, most of Brazilians are concentrated in an area between the coast and an imaginary line we could draw 1000 kilometres inside. This area is less than 50% of the territory, although it is bigger than many countries. But we are comparing areas of a single country.