Talk:Goku

Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Copyedit : Write fictional information in present tense. Verify : Cite the areas where necessary. Wikify : Character biography and any other areas where needed.

Archives

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1. September 2006 – October 2006
2. October 2006 – April 2007
3. April 2007 – August 2007

Wizard

Why do someone keep putting the Wizard fight between Goku and Superman? There's plenty of Wizard fights so why does this, out of all the others, is the only one mentioned? It's not canon anyway and many fans aren't happy with it as well. I think it should be taken out.Dark Rain

What fans think is ussually considered irrelevant, as a matter of fact this mention might be some of the most important content in the article (even though the format isn't the best) because it was published in a entirely independent, third party publication wich helps prove the character's "real-world" impact. - Caribbean~H.Q. 03:10, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, but why is this any different from the other fights? There's hardly any of the other fights mentioned in other articles. This is also a publication that retracts their fights too. Dark Rain

Congrats

To all editors of this Son Goku article, I commend all of you to a job well done, on wirting this article, and finding a resolution to squeezing the necessary information compressing it to a suitable size. Well done! But if you still think you can improve it (that's improvee it, not spoil it) then be confident enough to try. After all, articles can always be improved. If you are aware to my contributions, I apogolize for constantly making it larger, and I swear, I tried to do it by that squeezes as much information that I deem important into a compressed space, even trying to find ways to shrink the article, without keeping out vital parts. But you guys have found a great solution to that problem, so I'd like to say thank you very much. Uglyguy2006 21:13, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Thumbs Up to a job well done! UzEE (Talk • Contribs) 21:26, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Go to Dragonball Special Techniques!!! seriously...MysticGohan 04:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Can someone tell me why Goku's Techniques and Special Abilities section is back... I'm working on Dragonball Special Techniques so we can just link to that page, as opposed to adding it to the individual characters pages. 24.121.202.80 21:17, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Appearances in video games section

Unless I forgot something, Son Goku appears in every Dragon Ball game ever released, so this section of the article is rather superfluous. It should be replaced with a single sentence and a link to the much more complete and precise List of Dragon Ball video games. Kariteh 08:16, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree, there's no point in having the full list. You can change it if you'd like. --VorangorTheDemon 05:12, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

GA nominee?

I think it's time that we discuss this. We've all worked very hard on this article, and it's a lot better then it was previously. Or perhaps you can list suggestions for improving? It would be much appreciated. --VorangorTheDemon 05:22, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

While I appreciate the hard work put in this article. There is very little chance that it might pass the GAC anytime soon. The main problems are:

_ Lack of inline citations. All affirmations that could possibly be questionned should be sourced to a reliable source.

_ In-universe perspective. While I hate these tags, this one is right: the article really need real world perspective. See WP:FICT for details. A section about the conceptual origin of the character, its stages of development, another about the critical and public receptions to the character, possibly one about its importance in contemporary culture, all would benefit the article.

_ On a lesser note, the article could use a good thorough copy edit by several experimented users. Like most articles made by a real huge bunch of editors without much concertation, the style isn't consistent.

Good luck, --SidiLemine 09:31, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

You mean experienced users, right?--$UIT 04:46, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Lol! Yeah, that's what I meant. Hasty translation from French.--SidiLemine 12:27, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Its a lot better now, but lets just tune it a bit more to be on the safe side. UzEE (Talk • Contribs) 02:12, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Super Saiyan 2

If Im not mistaking, Goku transforms into Super Saiyan 2 for the first time while fighting Yakkon, in Babidi's ship. He turns Super Saiyan 2 to generate extra energy to blow up Yakkon. UzEE (Talk • Contribs) 02:33, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think so, though one of my friends drew the same conclusion after watching the scene. I'm pretty sure the first time we see him use SS2 was when he fought Majin Vegeta. His hair and eyes didn't change color during the Yakon fight, and there was no electricity. Plus, I think it's safe to say it would have drawn a much greater reaction from Vegeta. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.99.127.210 (talk) 23:11, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Why should this be an issue? It's confirmed that Goku had the ability to transform into a Super Saiyan 2 prior to the Majin Vegeta fight. He even had Super Saiyan 3 before the Vegeta fight, Vegeta states that he knew this when he returns to Earth to help Goku fight Shin Boo (Super Buu). And the Bio was removed anyway, it falls under WP:CRUFT. --VorangorTheDemon 23:33, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Electricity is a sign of Super Saiyan 2 only in the manga. In the anime, Super Saiyan 2 characters often don't generate electricity at all. Kariteh 09:43, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

True, but also often in the anime, ALL Super Saiyan forms generate electricity, not only Super Saiyan 2 and 3.--VorangorTheDemon 11:45, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Vegeta states this. "So Kakarot has also surpassed Super Saiyan" So Goku was Super Saiyan 2! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Goku's Rival (talk • contribs)

First Super Saiya-jin

Hi all, first time discussing a Wiki entry. Anyway onto the topic.

In the second paragraph of the forms and transformations section there is the line:

Goku is the first[citation needed] Saiyan in the series to achieve the legendary transformation of Super Saiyan in over a millennium.

I feel the citation needed link is unnecessary. Goku is the first character to perform that transformation in the series. At times that fact is disputed but lets look at the other commonly cited possibilities:

Lets assume as it commonly is, that the manga is the canon source and contradictions in the anime or movies are overridden.

Broly	Mirai Trunks (Future Trunks)
While it is possible he attained SSJ1 off screen before Goku did, the movies are not considered canon and are not consistent with the manga (Or even the anime for that matter). On screen we only meet him long after Goku has himself reached SSJ1	In the alternate timeline Goku succomes to the heart disease and dies. However, previous to that change there is no reason to assume that events transpired differently to the main timeline. Thus there is no reason to assume Goku didn't fight Frieza on Namek and attain SSJ1 there before Gohan and Trunks.

If a manga citation is needed to verify the statement its self, someone who has the manga should be able to cite a page reference for Vegetas' statement about the last Super Saiya-Jin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.198.26.150 (talk) 18:55, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

True. Broly is a character whom was created outside of the original Dragon Ball story, therefore he doesn't count as a "real" character in the continuity of Dragon Ball. The quote is in volume 8 (or Dragon Ball volume 24), I however, don't posess the manga, therefore I can't site the actual quote. There's no way that Trunks achieved Super Saiyan prior to Goku, he wasn't even born until 4 years after Goku's first transformation. And also Mirai Trunks's existence in the primary time line starts the second that he arrives in the time line, not before; which happened one year after Goku's first transformation. --VorangorTheDemon 02:18, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Relatives list

I was thinking that Goku's extended relatives is probably cruft. Like Mr. Satan, Gyuu Maioyu <--(???), and Videl. I think we should keep it exclusive to blood family and immediate family (Chi Chi and perhaps Grandpa Son Gohan who aren't blood). Thoughts? --VorangorTheDemon 23:07, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Though I have no idea what the term 'cruft' means, I think the entire thing should be shortened and the immediate family put together. Otherwise all relationships ( including immediate ) be stated on thier personal page. And unless I'm mistaken I think you got you're time wrong.--[[User:SxeFluff|--69.150.75.230 00:49, 26 September 2007 (UTC)]] 19:48, 25 september 2007

Cruft is a term used on Wikipedia to express the irrelevence of certain information. Or in simpler terms, info that is only important or understandable to fans of the series, and not general readers. And I use the four tides HTML code for my time, so mine is automatically done. Just sign ~~~~ at the end of you're comment, and it converts those four tides to your name (In your case, you're IP address)when you hit "save page". --VorangorTheDemon 16:52, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Temperament

"Goku does not possess the typical behavioral traits of the race, such as extreme aggression and ruthless behavior, this is due to head trauma and amnesia that he received during his childhood on Earth." I wish this wasn't in here. I think Master Roshi said this in Dragon Ball Z, but it's a weird and dubious addition to Goku's life story. In the original Dragon Ball Goku was naturally gentle. The brain damage storyline/theory seems to be contradicted by the behavior of Goku's two children who if anything seem to be even more peaceful than he is. So unless they both hit their heads really hard in a spaceship crash when they were infants too... Also in the Brolly movie Goku is shown crying excessively while the "normal" Saiyen doesn't cry at all.

I think someone who has seen all three Dragon Ball series should write a section about the disparities in Goku's character among each show. There are much bigger differences than the head thing. I mean in the first series Goku was very much the son of a Monkey God, not an alien. And don't give me that "he was an alien the entire time" bit. If they made another Dragon Ball show where they discovered Goku was a robot the whole time would that make him any less of a Saiyen when he was in Dragon Ball Z? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.31.64.54 (talk) 22:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

That's why it's stated that Toriyama didn't intend Dragon Ball to be an ongoing story, therefore Goku's history isn't the same as regular Saiyans, or superheroes for that matter. --VorangorTheDemon 12:46, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Does Goku have the ability to go Super Saiyan 2 in Dragonball GT? Cause if so, he never did. Kazi22 11:25, 11 October 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.7.239.237 (talk)

He can transform into SS2, he just doesn't do it in the series.--60 Delta 17:39, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

No one is confirmed to have turned SSj2 in GT, even though there is physical evidence in the series. But this could also just be the part of the vast void of random plotholes created by Toei, everyone argues that both Trunks and Goten also turned SSj2, but no one has ever been confirmed, not even Vegeta or Gohan. And also, this discussion at this time seems like one seen on a forum. We should discuss things about the article, not trivial subjects such as this. --VorangorTheDemon 15:14, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Right.--60 Delta 17:45, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Someone seriously needs to revamp the personality section. --Ramenguitar 6:24, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Why, what's wrong with it?--60 Delta 02:07, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree because we need to know something about Goku's History. Kazi22 18:40, 17 October 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.7.239.237 (talk)

Pages for books

Can someone add the pages for the references in this article? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:24, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:DragonballZ-Episode287 188.jpg

Image:DragonballZ-Episode287 188.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 10:37, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Failed Nomination of this article

I have failed this article for the following reasons.

• Article does not mention the character's actions inside the series the Character takes part in.
• There are not enough references to assert notability.
• There is simply not enough content for a subject that has so much to write about.
• Images could use replacement to better versions.

That about sums it up. This article could become a Good article in time but right now it is not up to snuff. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 21:59, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:DragonballZ-Episode287 188.jpg

Image:DragonballZ-Episode287 188.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 12:46, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Chi?

Since when did K become Ch. Last I checked Dragon Ball was written in Japan, in Japanese, as opposed to China, in Chinese. Can someone clarify this strange and disturbing twist? Because I can watch Seasons 1 and 2 of Dragon Ball Z and find dozens of instances using "Ki" and absolutely 0 using "Chi".205.209.70.128 (talk) 15:15, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I've been wondering the same thing. All throughout DBZ/GT, they specifically say "ki" ("key"), not "chi". One example is Bebi talking as Goku first goes SSJ4: "...kono ki wa...!" -- RattleMan (talk) 16:02, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Viz supposedly use "chi", for what that's worth. Then again, they also use "Vegerot", "Pocus" and a dozen other bizarre terms we'd better ignore. 134.129.203.26 07:49, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok 2 things

one.

can we have both the english and japanese names of goku's techniques because it can be quite confusing for new readers

two. where is there any mention any where on the internet that there is an upcoming live action film? —Preceding unsigned comment added by S02178 (talk • contribs) 00:47, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

There was at one point a full listing of Goku's techniques; you can check the page history to find that. The live-action movie was mentioned on IGN and CHUD, I believe. Not much of the film has been confirmed yet, though. At least, I don't think so--C. ROSS 22:15, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

yeah but what i'm talking about is a english listing of all his moves in english

as well as japaneseS02178 (talk) 03:48, 14 December 2007 (UTC)s02178

Again, just check the page history--C. ROSS 17:48, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Goku appears in every movie, that's why the list was removed.

Superman "fact"

Someone keeps re-adding the "fact" that Goku is an "anime version of Superman". I removed it because that statement, although mostly true, is purely opinion based. Also the sources provided don't actually cite a connection to Goku; the sources are only examples of how Superman is similar to Goku.--VorangorTheDemon (talk) 11:37, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Goku jap/dub difference?

Is it worth noting the difference in character of Son Goku in the original and the dub? I find that this article discusses the original Goku, which if left alone is perfectly fine because it IS the original. However the dub Goku was somewhat more inspirational (in my opinion only though, so no sources there sorry). In the dub, Goku was someone who fought to protect, in comparison to his original counterpart who fought for the fun of it. A good example is when he defeats Vegeta for teh first time in DBZ. In the original, Goku let him go because he wanted a chance to fight him again without any help. But in the dub; he let him go because he was a merciful warrior, something Vegeta would berate him for. Then again, in the original; Goku comes off as more of a goofy character, and so it adds to the comedy when Goku 'unintentionally' converts many of the villains into heros because he lets them live to fight them again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.21.154.109 (talk) 07:13, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

The difference in his character for the dub as opposed to the original can't really be sourced, also it would violate WP:OR. --VorangorTheDemon (talk) 16:03, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. As per WP:NOR, we cant add this. But I must say that your research is pretty much interesting. Actually I didnt know these things. UzEE (Talk • Contribs) 18:42, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

It is rather noticable, usually there is a change of character between mangas and their anime counter-parts, but not usually in translations. But no I don't have any sources. If the GT series counts, theres an example where Pan has a flashback of her at the beach and being afraid of the sea. In the original, Goku reassures her, saying that people has probably peed in it anyway. But in the dub, he reassures her stating that he was once afraid of the sea himself. Its not DB related, but the best anime-manga difference in character I can think of (other than Fullmetal Alchemist, where almost all of the characters are COMPLETELY different from their anime/manga counter-parts) is Onizuka from GTO. In the manga, he becomes a teacher so he can hit on young girls, whereas in the anime; he becomes a teacher so he can change the teaching system. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DrTheKay (talk • contribs) 13:19, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, but regardless, unless someone from FUNI gives an interview to state the stuff that's different (and why), we can't add it. Also if we add comparisons from Funi, then we'd have to add stuff from the Ocean dub, Malaysian Dub, ect. It would be a mess, not to mention would violate WP:NOR completely. For example, in my opinion, Vegeta is crazier and more sadistic in the Ocean Dub then in Funi because of the things that he says, but that's simply my opinion. The purpose of Wikipedia is to take actual facts and report them, not to take actual facts and manipulate them so that they justify our own veiws. --VorangorTheDemon (talk) 13:36, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

In other words, articles would quickly fall into the CRUFT-Cleanup-CITE cycle. We are pretty close to getting Goku to a good article I dont want to take any risks. I would say Vorgangor has worked to much on this article to get it into this shape and I agree with him on this case. UzEE (Talk • Contribs) 14:05, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Vorangor's strange edits

What is all this? Why de-italisize foreign terms? That goes against WP:MOS guidelines. Why change the abilities section to an inconsistent name (ie, different header than the other character articles)? Since when is the Fusion not a technique? And why claim something from the Daizenshū without citing the page(s)? Vorangor, please explain what you want to do before these edits are inserted. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 01:26, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

They actually aren't strange edits, and since its apparent that you haven't read the section's title correctly, it is not titled "techniques", it is titled "abilities". Techniques and abilities are not the same thing, techniques refer specifically to his fighting while abilities refers to a lesser detailed, more universal look at his character, not only the fighting aspect. Also my main issue with that section is that the section is pretty much a list of his techniques (something that we all decided on long ago fell under WP:CRUFT), just in a different format (being paragraph format). As for the de-italicizing, that wasn't intentional. As for the Daizenshuu "refs", I don't own the Daizenshuu and I don't actually know anyone outside the internet that does, I however have met people on-line that do own it, and use it as reference in discussions. As for the fusion thing, like I said via Edit summary: Fusion is not an ability, it is a technique, which I have already established isn't the same thing. Transformation is an ability, creating energy waves and being able to manipulate his ki is an ability, the actual techniques ("Fusion" being a technique) are not. You seem pretty pissed off, but I'm simply editing with the same intensity that you do; both you and I seem to have annoyingly anal editing styles. Cruft is a serious issue on these articles and I'm doing my best to eliminate most of it, and listing off the techniques falls into that category. --VorangorTheDemon (talk) 12:36, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand what you're talking about. What have I misunderstood? If you are going to cite the Daizenshū as references, give the {{page number}} and/or {{ISBN}} but please don't place the sentences where the sentence(s) are already referenced (even with <ref>{Source}</ref>). You say the de-italisising wasn't intentional, so why did you do it? There is no more cruft here, I destroyed all of that. If you take off his abilities, Goku can't be categorized as a Z-Fighter, we need them as a source for the categories. And I don't get why you keep saying fusion isn't a technique/ability, when Goku himself says it is (Dragon Ball Z manga, vol. 23, chapt. 275, page 135. ISBN 978-1-4215-0148-2). Here's the difference between technique and ability. Dende even says fusion is a specialty of some race called the Metamors. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:39, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

How can you not understand that most of the "abilities" section falls under WP:CRUFT? Simply listing off technique names was decided on to fall under WP:CRUFT ages ago. You're the one who I understood enforced the WP:CRUFT policy the most strongly out of any member working on this project, I don't understand why you're trying to keep crufty material in articles now. Why can't we just say that Goku has learned to teleport or multiply his ki with several different techniques, or he has the ability to transform into several different states that increase his physical abilities? Just stating that he has those abilities eliminates cruft all together. Also as I've already established, the abilities section is exclusively based on his fighting, it doesn't talk about other aspects of his character. No where in the aritcle is it mentioned that Goku is pure of heart, or that with most Toriyama characters, Goku's appitite is massive. It doesn't mention that Goku early on was naive enough to not even know his own age or the difference between boys and girls. This page is becoming simple eye-candy for a fans by simply listing off the names of his techniques that general readers could honestly give two sh*ts about. It is not structured like a Wikipeida article should be. These are the reasons that we have NEVER been able to make GA with any of the aritcles on this project. And if we can find reference to it, we need to expand the article, such as mentioning more about Sun Wukong and intended alternate versions of Goku (Tullece for example, who was intended as an alternate Universe Goku, if Goku didn't become good), or even fan reciprocation of Goku. Also I said that Fusion IS a technique, not an ability. You don't need to have some kind of natural predisposition to perform it. --VorangorTheDemon (talk) 23:02, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

WP:CRUFT this, WP:CRUFT that, ... the guideline says absolutely nothing about removing a fictional character's abilities. What I refer to as cruft is garbage like this, this, this, and this. It appears that you are attempting to degrade the article many (including I) have worked hard on. Yamucha has passed WP:GAC because of improvements that I and others have done there. Trust me, I know what I'm doing. I will take some of your good edits into consideration. Okay? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 00:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

You know what, fuck this. One of the reasons people left was because of you (I've talked to them outside Wikipedia), and now I'm so fed up with this bullshit that I'm leaving too. I've spent a fuckin year so getting these articles to this point and I'm just so sick of this shit that it's finally pushed me to the breaking point. I'll still be editing on Wikipeida, but editing the Dragon Ball ariticles is driving me fuckin insane, I simply can't do it anymore. Goodbye. --VorangorTheDemon (talk) 21:57, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I understand the top edit, but the rest don't even make sense. I'm not trying to be the bad guy here, these changes basically... suck. I'll be more than happy to reinsert some of these so long as you explain why. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:18, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Appearance

I was just looking at Goku clothes, and found that it doesn't state that he wears weighted clothes, as does Piccolo. I saw this in an english cartoon, and found it shocking that it was not on Wikipedia. I'm not sure of the episode, but I think it was in the Cell Saga, but I may be wrong. If anyone with the episodes of the Cell Saga (the best I can do is youtube, and I'm almost positive that information from there will not be allowed), then please help me. If anyone has any complaints, then please let me know! I lack the references and skill needed to edit it.--TriCheeseSorrow (talk) 05:14, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

He did wear weighted clothes for a time during the Piccolo Jr. Saga until the beginning of the Saiyan Saga but that was it. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 16:58, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh, okay. Thanks for the info, now I see why it's not included.--TriCheeseSorrow (talk) 21:00, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Why Can't We Use English Names?

Honestly, using english names would make it easier for non die-hards to understand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kazaan (talk • contribs)

You'll get better reception from members at WP:WPDB, as this may not be the best place. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:56, 13 March 2008 (UTC)