Talk:The Clouds

Socrates Image

We should switch to the image used on the italian page. Ravenous 15:40, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

"One of the first instances of self-referential or post-modern literature?!"!"

Can we please remove that line? Maybe say, this is interestingly self-referential or surprisingly modern or something like that? Besides, I'd like to see a source for you claim. (Eeesh 13:34, 28 January 2007 (UTC))

I agree; it is a rather dubious claim to make that a pre-modern text is post-modern. So, I altered the line.

Also, IIRC, most Old Comedy had a parabasis where the Chorus leader spoke in the voice of the writer - nothing special about the one in the Clouds other than that it refers to an earlier failure. Ephialtes 15:01, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Interpretation section needs cites

Moving the whole "Interpretation" section to Talk for now.

Interpretation

The Clouds, straddling the lines drawn by Aristotle between comedy and drama in the Poetics, is actually a metaphor for the folly of mankind before the majesty of the Cosmos; all characters, including Socrates, have pride and vanities; all are flawed, and the lampoon is against human weakness itself, which provides the comic aspect of the play. The metaphor of the oven mirrors in the world of men the Clouds. The Clouds exist beyond the world of men in the play, and are the "truth" Aristophanes is brillianly expounding - we recall Chaerophon's complaint at the end that "It is hot in here, like an oven [sic]" - the Oven, fueled by the Clouds, is the "test" that mankind must pass through (for in the play all of society is being tested, and fails); the Clouds are the catalyst of the test.

Incidentally, we notice several references in the play to esoteric knowledges (Strepsiades, in destroying the Academy, goes on to mock Socrates for "looking to the moon," which had been referenced earlier as one of the characters complained about Athens' calendar being innacurate in regards to the New Moon); Aristophanes would have been aware of these things, and was likely mocking the hypocrisy of the various circles of Athens, especially those who claimed to be "initiated" into deeper mysteries, which Aristophanes is demonstrating to be mere folly in comparison to the reality of these mysteries, namely, the Clouds and the Universe itself.

Thus, the play can be seen as being a Cave of caves, an allegory comparable to the Cave in Plato's Republic, but transcending it.

-- Without cites, this section has the appearance of being unacceptable personal opinions / original research. Please provide good cites for this material before re-adding to the article. Thank you. -- 201.50.254.243 14:02, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Just Clouds?

It would seem to me that the title is just "Clouds" not "The Clouds"?-[ Coolhandscot 02:25, 20 March 2007 (UTC) ]

The name itself is only the substantive, as you wrote. ( Νεφέλαι) Anyways, the translation can be with, or without article. The normal is to traduce in the first way.... or would you say Man rang the bell? My personal interpretation of the meaning of this translation is that clouds are gods, so they are defined and personalized, that's why "the" should be there. I hope you had unterstood what I said. --Brisk 90 (talk) 11:13, 19 June 2008 (UTC)