Talk:U2

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disambig

Pillar needs disambig. Randomblue (talk) 12:17, 24 January 2008 (UTC) Also, programming redirects to "computer programming" which I suppose isn't correct. Randomblue (talk) 12:25, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Fixed both. Feel free to make such changes yourself by using the "edit this page" link at the top of the page. But thanks for pointing it out. Wikipedia brown (talk) 16:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

history

I noticed that the section on Formation and Early Years has no mention of Adam Clayton. The first paragraph does not mention him at all, and in the second paragraph there is a passing reference to him only.

Was he at the band's first practice? (He probably was, because the article mentions 7 people present and only 6 are listed). Nordee (talk) 19:53, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Piracy statements by manager

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7215226.stm anyone want to whinge if I stick this in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.218.53 (talk) 05:25, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

The article is about music piracy, not U2. It's irrelevant to this article. MelicansMatkin (talk) 05:14, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I tend to agree with Melicans. It seems like a one-off headline - ie, manager of the world's biggest band uttered words about piracy - is bound to get coverage, but is it really primary to the history of U2 on this page? If on the other hand, this turns out to be the start of significant involvement of the U2 camp in a larger campaign, or whatever, then we can revisit the topic later. For now leave it out, I say. (possibly it could go on McGuiness' page - maybe. --Merbabu (talk) 05:22, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

U2 has stated their position through their manager. If U2 wish the distance themselves from the statement then I would have no trouble having that in the article also. If he wasn't U2's manager then I am quite sure the media would have ignored him entirely. The comments where made under the guise of U2 I think they should stay. I can't see the need for anymore than one or two lines on this unless a further campaign is mounted (Just like Metallica). If U2 wants to make statements which attract controversy then they should be recorded, not whitewashed by the U2 PR department/fanclub. The full text of the speech is on the U2 website http://www.u2.com/news/index.php?mode=full&news_id=2196 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.218.53 (talk) 07:13, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

It's a statement made by Paul McGuiness on the music industry. It is not a statement made by U2, or a statement about U2. There is no purpose in mentioning it in the article when other, more significant events involving the band are not mentioned. This is an article about U2, not a chronological timeline about everything that anyone who is connected to the band has said. MelicansMatkin (talk) 07:24, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

There's not really any argument over whether it's representative of U2 or not, that's kind of irrelevant. I just can't see how a one-off headline statement (no matter who's view it represents) is worthy of inclusion - wait for more before inclusion.--Merbabu (talk) 07:43, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Dik Evans

Why is Dik Evans listed in "Other personnel" at the bottom of the page ??-- he was in the band for like a few weeks and shouldn't share the same space with Paul McGuinness, Brian Eno, Daniel Lanois and Steve Lillywhite that have been with the band for years and years. I'm just confused why he's there. . . GG The Fly (talk) 05:03, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

hmm - i'm leaning to agreement with you (although it was more than a few weeks - closer to 2 years albeit at a time when the band weren't full time or as focussed as they were once he left). I'd like to hear other opinion first though. --Merbabu (talk) 05:23, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I'd think that including Dick Evans is leaning on the 'too much info' side... this is about U2 and the fact that only people that have done HOURS and hours of digging and reading and following the band very closely even know the importance of that name... if someone is trying to dig that deep into u2, they already have other sources... it's not hurting the page, it's just not vital at all... Jgrizzy89 (talk) 20:05, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I concur with all three of you. I have no objections to it's removal. MelicansMatkin (talk) 20:16, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Anybody else want to weigh in? Thanks for your opinions! GG The Fly (talk) 01:55, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

MISC.

The newest sentence added to the end of "Reapplying for the..." section says that the newest album is due tentatively in October 2008, however the link provided (107) has no info or statement that says October... Also- Dream Theater released a Special edition of Systematic Chaos with a dvd on which they speak about how U2 has heavily influenced their style lately with songs like i walk beside you, prophets of war and forsaken. Also, as a dream theater fan, i know they've covered Bad a couple times live as well.... Worth noting, on both accounts? Jgrizzy89 (talk) 20:12, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Covering Bad would go into the Bad article, preferably only if the cover was released on a DVD or a CD (studio or live). I see no reason why Dream Theatre can't be added to the small list of bands influenced by U2's music, as long as the source is properly cited. MelicansMatkin (talk) 20:15, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Simpsons Episode S09E22

In passing I was a little surprised to notice there wasn't a reference mentioning U2's guest performances on "The Simpsons" Season 9 Episode 22 Titled "Trash of the Titans". I mention it from a cross-reference perspective and suggest an insertion. --Behälter (talk) 04:24, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Harmonica

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

An agreement has been made that the harmonica will not be listed as one of Bono's instruments. –Dream out loud (talk) 23:56, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

---

I have been trying to include that Bono also plays the harmonica on several songs, but someone keeps editing it out every time I put it in. In order for people to become knowledgeable about each band members' role, I feel it is important for people to know what each band member plays. Just for general knowledge, Bono has played harmonica on Running to Stand Still, Desire, Angel of Harlem, among others. He actually probably plays the harmonica on more songs than he does with his guitar. So, I think others would agree that adding that Bono plays the harmonica is something that shouldn't be overlooked. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.7.241.92 (talk) 22:45, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I have reverted this addition numerous times because of prior discussions here, here and here, all of which clearly have a consensus that the information is NOT needed in this article. If we were to list every instrument that every band member has ever played, the infobox would be longer than the article. MelicansMatkin (talk) 02:12, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Bono’s guitar playing is a lot more common that harmonica. Rather than write it all out again, I’ve pasted Melican’s recent comments on the topic:

The consensus has been established that the fact that Bono plays the harmonica is completely irrelevent to the U2 article. If we were to list every instrument that every band member has played, the article would far too long. Read WP:TRIVIA. Bono has only ever played harmonica on three songs: Running to Stand Still, Trip Through Your Wires, and Desire. Vertigo Tour performances of Angel of Harlem are irrelevent as the song was only played 13 times on the entire tour. Trip Through Your Wires has not been played in almost 20 years, and Running to Stand Still very rarely in the last 15 years. Contrast that with the songs he has played guitar on: I Will Follow, I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For, Exit, One, Gone, Kite, Desire, Staring at the Sun, When Love Comes to Town, The Fly, the list goes on and on and is far more extensive than songs he plays the harmonica on. The fact that he plays the harmonica on rare occassions is trivia, and it fails WP:TRIVIA. There has been an established consensus among the editors of the U2 article for a very long time that the information is not to be included.

Bono's also played piano on stage (1 song) and even the tambourine. We don't mention those. Please, let's get some perspective. regards --Merbabu (talk) 21:00, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

IP 198.7.241.92, you have been warned about consistently adding this information to the article, including a 3RR warning on your talk page which you have just violated. Please stop edit warring; the consensus is against you. MelicansMatkin (talk) 04:13, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I just happened to stumble across the above discussion when I was searching for information on U2 performing with Maria McKee. I have to say that the above debate is just another example of the Wikipedia editors abusing their authority and acting like a Star Chamber to squash a perfectly logical and valid argument set forth to include Bono playing harmonica in the article on U2. I've used Wikipedia for years and have even authored a couple of articles and I think the larger issue here is that it seems every new article created these days is flagged numerous times, edited, or just plain ole removed by editors who take exception for one reason or another. This also happens a great deal when popular or high profile articles are edited or amended, If Wikipedia is supposed to be truly collaborative, you have to loosen the reigns and give people some freedom to write an article or contribute to one without interference. The above is a perfect example. It seems to me that the addition was relevant, fit the context of where it was inserted in the article, and was grammatically correct. I think those are the types of things that the editors should be looking for. But it seems that all too often, editors exercise their authority because they (in their perceived infinite wisdom) have their own idea of what Wikipedia should be, what it should include and how it should be presented. I always thought Wikipedia was supposed to be something of a coop. But it seems the mysterious "great and powerful Oz-like" editors will find any excuse to disqualify input. What this has done is create a "Why bother?" attitude amongst many of us when considering contributing to Wikipedia. So many of the Wikipedia "guidelines" have just become so arbitrary -- from formatting specifcations; to decisions on what is or is not considered notable, trivia, or opinion; to whether or not an uploaded photo has been properly licensed; and the list goes on and on. Authoring on Wikipedia is becoming more and more of an exclusive club, ironically, the exact opposite of what the initial intent was. Yes, I'll continue to use it as an information source in some cases but the editors have made contributing just too darn unweildy and unfriendly a process. And now, I await deletion of this post, as I'm sure I've violated some guideline or rule by posting in a closed argument, adding to the wrong section, not signing my post, formatting improperly or just expressing my opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.100.248.66 (talk) 19:59, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Continuing debate

Sigh, it appears as if the IP is unwilling to listen to the reasons provided. If any of the editors on here would like to, I invite you to contribute to the discussion which appears to be currently held on my talk page. Hopefully you can explain the situation better than I can. MelicansMatkin (talk) 01:43, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

It should be discussed here on this page for everyone to see - try and direct the editor here. --Merbabu (talk) 01:58, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Done. For reference, I've included below the entire discussion between myself and the IP up to this point in time.

I'm kinda new to the whole editing thing, but I have been trying to make people visiting the U2 Wikipedia page aware that Bono does more than just sing and play guitar; he is also a noted harmonica player. However, each time I simply try to add "harmonica" to: "Bono (vocals and guitar)", someone repeatedly edits it out. I don't think this is a case of a well-formed sentence or a dispute over how the statement sounds, as I'm just adding an additional attribute Bono has to a list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.7.241.92 (talk) 04:03, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I've already explained this on Talk:U2. The consensus is that his playing of the harmonica need not, and should not, be added to the article. Other editors will tell you the same thing. MelicansMatkin (talk) 04:09, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Regardless of the "consensus" with a few random people, if you read what I wrote, Bono probably plays the harmonica more often than he does guitar. It's an important part of songs, such as Running to Stand Still, Desire, Angel of Harlem (on the Vertigo Tour), among others that I can't think of off the top of my head. I don't see what the problem is with adding simply one word to give people a better description of what Bono can do, more than just sing and occasionally play a guitar (that no one can ever hear anyway). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.7.241.92 (talk) 18:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

The consensus has been established that the fact that Bono plays the harmonica is completely irrelevent to the U2 article. If we were to list every instrument that every band member has played, the article would far too long. Read WP:TRIVIA. Bono has only ever played harmonica on three songs: Running to Stand Still, Trip Through Your Wires, and Desire. Vertigo Tour performances of Angel of Harlem are irrelevent as the song was only played 13 times on the entire tour. Trip Through Your Wires has not been played in almost 20 years, and Running to Stand Still very rarely in the last 15 years. Contrast that with the songs he has played guitar on: I Will Follow, I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For, Exit, One, Gone, Kite, Desire, Staring at the Sun, When Love Comes to Town, The Fly, the list goes on and on and is far more extensive than songs he plays the harmonica on. The fact that he plays the harmonica on rare occassions is trivia, and it fails WP:TRIVIA. There has been an established consensus among the editors of the U2 article for a very long time that the information is not to be included. MelicansMatkin (talk) 19:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, using your argument then, you should also remove that The Edge plays piano, as he only does so on October, New Year's Day, Running to Stand Still, and (only on tour) Miss Sarajevo and Original of the Species (the few times that it was played). If you only want to give each band members' main contributions musically, then I insist that we remove the fact that The Edge plays the piano. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.7.241.92 (talk) 23:01, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Once again, your information is incorrect. The Edge has played keyboards on more songs than that. Into the Heart and The Unforgettable Fire are two examples that come to mind immediately. As you can see here, the discussion is now over. I will thank you to not continue harping on about it. MelicansMatkin (talk) 00:59, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Honestly, I'd appreciate it if all of you "uber-editors" would get down off of your soapboxes for a minute and see the crux of the issue here. You seem to contradict yourself saying, noting that the harmonica is not a main part of Bono's so-called repertoire, then we should discount his guitar playing, as well. I'm also confused whether we're talking about when U2 is on tour or strictly album versions of songs. If the touring is the case, shouldn't we include that Bono plays the drums, too since he did so every night on the Vertigo Tour during "Love and Peace or Else"? Or, even more, should we include that Larry is a vocalist, since he sang several acapella songs on the ZooTV Tour and every night on the Vertigo Tour to "Love and Peace or Else" and "Miracle Drug"? Or that The Edge is probably a more proficient bass player than most, as he has played bass on every rendition of "40" since its beginnings? Or how about Bono singing backing vocals on "Seconds"? Adam Clayton has also been shown to sing backing vocals, especially during the War Tour. My point is this: while some things may appear to be irrelevant, your reasoning behind the exclusion of the harmonica and inclusion of other things is inconsistent. If you are basing your actions on simply how many times one of the band members plays a certain instrument, then all of the above examples should apply.

In regards to Bono's "guitar playing" on apparently tons of songs, in your opinion (although again, I am not sure if you mean solely album versions...if this is so, how can you distinguish?...or live versions), his guitar is virtually never on in the first place, questioning his ability to play it well enough in the first place. The only times it can really be heard off the top of my head are Unchained Melody from ZooTV, One during Vertigo Tour, some versions of The Fly...basically only added snippets of songs after all the other sounds have been turned down/stopped being played.

Regardless of how many songs The Edge plays on piano, it is not his main ability, if that is indeed the purpose of the intro section, which I am coming to believe it is. Again, here lies the disconnect. The Edge's featured musical ability is really only two things based on the logic of you editors: vocals and guitar. Bono should merely be lead vocals or add ONE WORD to his introduction, however much that may pain the Wikipedia community.

If you actually weigh what I've said rather than simply dismiss it because you (and, admittedly, others) are obviously on a power trip, you would see where more information could be gained by the public in adding this detail of Bono's abilities. This is an online encyclopedia, correct? Then it should supply as much information as possible, especially when it comes to a section that is specifically made to describe each band members' abilities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.7.241.92 (talk) 01:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

As I've said, I'm not willing to continue the discussion here. If you insist on continuing it, please go to Talk:U2#Continuing debate where other editors apart from myself shall involve themselves in the discussion. MelicansMatkin (talk) 02:04, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree harmonica should not be listed in this article. [Added to show additional support for the established concensus.] Carl.bunderson (talk) 19:03, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Genre

It would be necessary to write on the rock music, the punk and alternative not sufficient hypotenuse. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.141.181.18 (talk) 15:02, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

They played an alternative dance style during the Pop era. Is this notable? --↑ɻ⅞θʉɭђɥл₮₴Ṝ 12:27, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Semi-protection necessary?

We've been getting a lot of anonymous vandalism lately, from a variety of IP addresses. I think semi-protection would be a good idea, but I figured I'd get some other opinions before requesting protection. –Dream out loud (talk) 03:25, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree, semi-protection would be good. Carl.bunderson (talk) 22:33, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

It's been almost 24 hours since I proposed the protection idea, and we still seem to be having problems. After reviewing the amount of vandalism with the articles for which semi-protection was granted, this article seems to be having more of an issue, so I'm going to request protection now. –Dream out loud (talk) 00:17, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

American English

Referring to places by place, country (eg, Paris, France; London, England etc) is American English. It is rarely used in British English or Hiberno-English. Why, as this article is described as being written in British English, are Americanisms like that constantly added in?

(BTW why do people write articles on music topics that are filled with music journalism jargon? This is an encyclopaedia, not NME, Rolling Stone or Hot Press!) FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 00:47, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi, what specifically do you think sounds like a music magazine? The article passed its recent FA review without any comments about it being too "jargony", and the article has not changed much since it achieved FA. If you can point out certain cases which do sound NPOV or excessive, I'd be happy to work with you and other editors to improve them. By the way, if you want to see what real music jargon looks like, please see the 2005 versions of this article in the history tab. Wikipedia brown (talk) 01:10, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Using American English on wikipedia makes much more sense. British English would be just another European language were it not for the power of the United States, just as Spanish would be without the numerical strength of South America. This statement of fact clearly offends the nationalist sensibilities of some people, but that's a different matter. PS 'Paris, France' is a more intelligent use of English than 'Paris in France'. 86.42.109.173 (talk) 09:18, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Small grammar question

The first phrase of the article sounded really off to me U2 (IPA: /ˌjuːˈtuː/) are a rock band from Dublin, Ireland. , shouldn't it be U2 (IPA: /ˌjuːˈtuː/) is a rock band from Dublin, Ireland. ?

No; convention states that bands are to be referred to in the plural, not the singular. MelicansMatkin (talk) 17:37, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that link. and for the prompt reply. Samuel Sol (talk) 18:14, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

No problem at all, and I'm glad that I could help :) MelicansMatkin (talk) 19:04, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

U2 is definitively post-punk!!

Please see sources:

Britannica Rolling Stone

Feel free to add these to article. Wikipedia brown (talk) 21:40, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Pigeon holing along genres is fraught with difficulty - particularly with a band like U2 with such a long history and diverse back catalogue. There ain't much that's post punk about mysterious ways or sweetest thing. However, U2 were considered a post punk band in the late 70s or 80s. It depends whether we are looking at current classification, or those that were only valid previously. If previously, then I'd support it (unless someone can convince me otherwise).

Related to this, I once added "pop" to the genres. While Sweetest Thing, Mysterious Ways, and Angel of Harlem are extremely pop, some would argue reasonably well that Bullet or Love and Peace or Else are not. Further, what's alt rock about angel of harlem or Love Rescue Me?

So, this and the post punk question beg the question - what are the criteria for a valid U2 genre pigeon hole. If the regular edits and U2 project can establish an agreed criteria, then we can establish a set of genres, and then as a group we can establish this as a firm consensus, which would need very very good justification (ie, further discussion) to remove. Personally, I'd suggest we go one extreme or the other - ie, be strict and have one 1 single genre "Rock", or open it write up "Rock", "Alt Rock", "Post Punk", "Pop", etc, etc. --Merbabu (talk) 08:49, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

U2 and U2 single templates

An anon editor 76.184.84.65 (their contribs) has changed the 2 templates - ie, combined them into a super template. I think both are already too big. I've reverted the changes to the U2 template, and would like to reinstate the U2 singles template. Please respond to this issue here. thanks --Merbabu (talk) 01:29, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Who directed their music videoes

I've been working on the u2 discography page for a while now and i'm wondering who directed all these music videoes. --U2 is alternative rock (talk) 17:59, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Christianity

Why isn't anything said about their christianity in this artical?And with all the christian lyrics in some songs wouldn't that make them a christian rock band? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.151.200 (talk) 20:03, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Influences?

I was just reading the influences part and it says that Arcade fire is a band that have influenced U2. This is not referenced like the other bands mentioned. Can this be verified. Although I'm sure its not impossible that they are an influence on the band it seems to me that Arcade fire are a much younger band than U2 and don't to fit in with the other influences mentioned.Kavanar2 (talk) 11:36, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.67.140.84 (talk) 17:04, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Twelfth Album

There is no official evidence that the title of the twelfth album is called 'No Line on the Horizon' other than fan speculation from a known song title, and a domain registered by Universal. It is speculated that NLOTH might be the lead single, but even that's just speculation, and there is NO EVIDENCE that it will be the album title, other than an article in a British paper that didn't have any sources named, and seemed to pull its "facts" right out of a U2 forum I frequent. Can we agree to keep it labeled as U2's Twelfth Studio Album instead of NLOTH? Digitize (talk) 02:15, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. In fact, I'd go further and remove it completely. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia of notable and stable information. Not a rumour mill, crystal ball or a news. See WP:CRYSTAL, WP:CHILL and WP:NOTNEWS. I suggest asking for semi protect to stop drive by IPs from adding rumours. regards --Merbabu (talk) 02:51, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Experimental music genre

I attempted to re-add Experimental music to the infobox list of Genres, but it was reverted (even after a source was supplied) with a note that the U2 Wikiproject would get fired up, at least I assume that's what the reference was to. I only dispute this because I remember seeing an interview with Bono back in 1993 when U2 was performing in Yankee Stadium, and he mentioned the group's movement into that genre at the time. I can't find that local news reference, but I was able to locate several references to U2 being in the Experimental music genre. This doesn't mean they're an experimental band, just that they have produced music in that genre. Just throwing this out there to see what others think. Dreadstar † 14:30, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

What I was referring to was the fact that there have been debates over U2's genre before and the "rock, alternative rock, post-punk" listing is what was decided on. And even those seemed difficult to agree on. I would caution against adding experimental rock to any article about a band/artist because "experimental rock" is so hard to define and is more an umbrella term than any other I've seen. From what I gather, experimental rock is usually when artists are pushing the boundaries of song structure or composition, or they are using instruments or techniques very alien to music making. U2 doesn't fit into that at all. Even if some sources say experimental rock, I think they are referring to the band "experimenting" with their sound, not the definition that Wikipedia provides for experimental rock. Furthermore, the reference you provided was a Barnes and Noble review of one of their albums, talking about some of their influences. That hardly constitutes enough reason to warrant being put into the band's infobox. Y2kcrazyjoker4 (talk) 13:19, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Can you provide a link to these previous discussions? As I indicated above, there are more references to U2 delving into experimental music, and I distinctly recall Bono talking about it - I'll continue searching for any references to that comment. Dreadstar † 15:39, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

The thing to remember is that the article is about the band as a whole and the genre(s) mentioned should reflect that, rather than trying to mention every sub-genre the band dabbled in or even mentioned in referencing themselves at some point. If you can find a good reference (ie. "Around the time of Achtung Baby the band was in an exploratory phase and Bono described them as delving into "experimental music" )" go ahead and mention it where appropriate but that still wouldn't be a reason to add another genre to the box. Personally I don't even like the "alternative rock" or "post punk" tags (it's hard to get less "alternative" than the most popular band of the era), but I can understand why they apply; on the other hand U2 is no more an experimental music band that Led Zeppelin was a reggae band. Jgm (talk) 15:44, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

This genre is significant to the group's history in several ways, first it's mentioned in reliable sources [1][2]; it was talked about (by Bono and others) at the time, and the move in that direction helped to "alienate" some of their fan base. But I'm not hung up on including it, and will bow to consensus on this, but we may be doing a disservice to our readers by not including significant genres that a band has explored, which does not make the group into an "experimental band"; certainly calling Led Zeppelin a reggae band would be false, but inlcuding that as a genre doesn't make them fall directly under that category. If that's the case, then the genre should just be rock, just to keep it basic. I'll leave this to the editors here to figure that out. I've also posted a request on the U2 Wikiproject page about this, wouldn't want to get them all fired up by leaving them out of the discussion...or whatever... :) Dreadstar † 16:06, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

To return to your example about Led Zeppelin and reggae - they might have explored that genre for a few songs, like "D'yer Mak'er", but that alone is not enough to constitute the reggae genre being added to the band's infobox. That section is pretty much reserved only for labels the band itself should be bestowed with. You can certainly add reggae to the infobox of "D'yer Mak'er," but not Led Zeppelin. To go full circle with U2, their albums Achtung Baby, Zooropa, and Pop are all certainly alternative rock albums with eletronica and dance influences, so I'm not sure why we wouldn't keep alternative rock in the band's infobox. And if we wanted to indicate the band's experimental phase, I'm not so sure experimental rock is the right term (I mean, just read the definition of it in the article). I would think something like alternative dance is more appropriate. By the way, Jgm, I think you are confused by the meaning of alternative rock now - it doesn't mean that music is an "alternative" to the more mainstream music. It has just come to envelope a lot of rock music as a whole. And back when it had a different definition in the 80s (more in the same vein as college rock), U2 probably fit the definition even then. Y2kcrazyjoker4 (talk) 17:15, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Beautiful Day

If I am correct, wasn't Beautiful Day selected as the track of [the year] 2000? I'm pretty sure that this was stated on a previous version of the article. Skimming through the page, I believe this snippet of info has been removed. As I am unwilling to re-add it myself (through fear of being wrong), can someone confirm this and take the necessary action? Thanks. A Prodigy ^(t•c•m) 19:07, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

By "track of the year" I guess you mean the Grammy for song of the year and/or song of the year, both of which "Beautiful Day" indeed won. This is reflected in the article for the song, the album, and in the List of U2 awards article. Now what action was it you were thinking of? Jgm (talk) 19:57, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh does the song have it's own article? I never knew that, never mind. I didn't know these things at first. Forget I even brought this up XD. A Prodigy ^(t•c•m) 20:00, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Proposed change to the lead

I was reading over the lead and although it does a great job of summarizing U2 succintly, I felt it glossed over a few important items. So I'm proposing some changes and throwing this out there to see what everyone thinks. I added a note about the band's song content and then moved up their accolades to the first paragraph to make the last paragraph about their political impact. I also tried to note what kind of band U2 was early on and how they progressed through the years.

U2 (/ˌjuːˈtuː/) are a rock band from Dublin, Ireland. The band consists of Bono (vocals and guitar), The Edge (guitar, keyboards, and vocals), Adam Clayton (bass guitar) and Larry Mullen, Jr. (drums and percussion). U2 have sold more than 170 million albums worldwide and have won more Grammy Awards than any other band. In 2005, the band were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in their first year of eligibility. Rolling Stone Magazine listed U2 at #22 in their list of the 100 greatest artists of all time.

The band formed in 1976 when the members were teenagers with limited musical proficiency. U2's first few albums, their sound rooted in post-punk, saw modest success. By the mid-1980s, however, the band had become a top international act, noted for their anthemic sound, Bono's impassioned vocals, and The Edge's chiming, textural guitar playing. Their success as a live act was greater than their success at selling records until their 1987 album The Joshua Tree increased the band's stature "from heroes to superstars," according to Rolling Stone. U2 responded to the dance and alternative rock revolutions, and their own sense of musical stagnation by reinventing themselves with their 1991 album Achtung Baby and the accompanying Zoo TV Tour. Similar experimentation continued for the rest of the 1990s with mixed reception. Since 2000, U2 have pursued a more traditional sound that retains the influence of their musical explorations, while attaining both critical and commercial success.

Much of the band's music features social and political commentary, often combined with religious imagery. Throughout their career, as a band and as individuals, they have campaigned for human rights and social justice causes, including Amnesty International, the ONE Campaign, and Bono's DATA (Debt, AIDS, Trade in Africa) campaign.

Y2kcrazyjoker4 (talk) 15:47, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

A few comments: I applaud your effort to beef up the lead with more of a sense of the band's history and import but I think it would be best not to try to discuss particular albums/tours in the lead; it should suffice to mention that the band reached several peaks of popularity in the late 1980s and early 2000s and successfully maintained currency and popularity over several decades by recurrently modifying and updating their sound and approach. Or something like that. I oppose the use of "post-punk" in the lead as that term is ill-defined and the linked WP article is a mess. I'm not sure I buy the "often" applied to "religious imagery", I'm also not happy with "traditional sound" which is subjective ("traditional" compared to what? Chuck Berry?) and not really meaningful, as at this point the band defines the mainstream as much as anyone. Jgm (talk) 16:16, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

The current lead has gone through many discussions, reviews, refinements; the most important of which was several FAC processes (ultimately successful). That it has been so stable for so long is a testament to it's quality. Indeed, FA status was awarded on the basis of the current lead, and much of your newly proposed information - and/or very similar material - was removed by consensus. Much of the new additions are vague (indeed, "traditional" means what? - tribal drumming?) and border on POV and flag waving. I agree with Jgm's points. --Merbabu (talk) 21:43, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I didn't add the word "traditional" to the article just now. It's been there as long as you have been trying to get the article featured. If we both disagree with the "traditional" wording, how is it that it's been in the lead for a long time and hasn't been changed at all? I guess people are finding it hard to rewrite? Y2kcrazyjoker4 (talk) 13:52, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Post-punk is a vague term, but the band have countless times referred to themselves that way, as have critics. I think it's safe to say they encompass the genre, however one would define it. I can understand someone raising an eyebrow over "traditional sound", but I can't think of another way to describe it ("stripped-down"? "back-to-basics?"). Maybe we can say they "returned to their traditional sound". What are your reservations about the lyrical content when I mention "religious imagery?" Finally, the information about specifics albums and tours has been a longtime foundation of the article lead, and I think it should remain that way, since those things are the band's defining, most popular works. Y2kcrazyjoker4 (talk) 16:57, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Jgm and Merbabu. See the lead before the FAC: [3], which was somewhat similar to what you propose. The discussion during the FAC review resulted in trimming and tightening of the prose, and I don't think it's a good idea to revisit it (if it ain't broken ...). Some of the language that you put forth is indeed vague, but I can see where you got it (other parts of the article). I think those parts should be changed, rather than adding the imprecise language to the lead. Overall, I'm very reluctant to have major changes made to the lead at this point unless there's new information added, or vital information that was somehow overlooked, or the prose is noticeably improved. But don't let this dissuade you Y2kcrazyjoker4, there's a lot of other improvements that can be made to this article and other U2-related articles. Wikipedia brown (talk) 03:00, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Inconsistency of history subsection titles

Shouldn't we be consistent in the way we name the history subsections? Most of them are all named after the band's albums or tours (which really don't seem to say much about what that point in the band's history meant), and then the last one is oddly named after a quote from Bono. Shouldn't we choose either/or, rather than mixing and matching? Alternatively, we could split 2000-2008 into two parts, one for each album/tour, and name it like such to match the previous sections. Y2kcrazyjoker4 (talk) 15:53, 14 August 2008 (UTC)