User talk:Jimbo Wales

Christmas

re this edit

this thread began at User talk:Jack Merridew#Christmas but I believe this is a better spot for the discussion.

Cheers, Jack Merridew 05:17, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

“The philosophy of Saraswati Day is that the most important thing for human life is knowledge.”

Why does your not celebrating Christmas have anything to do with systemic bias? Lots of people do celebrate it, including in America, and I am baffled by your edit summary, removing systemic bias means recognizing all celebrations. I imagine their are celebrations in Bali and that when there are you join in. Thanks, SqueakBox 04:46, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

I didn't say that I don't celebrate Christmas (although I don't). A few points;

• I don't think it appropriate to promote such a holiday on that fellow's page. Certainly, there should be an article at Christmas and I'd have no issue with a DYK or some other mention on the main page.
• just about every day is somehow special to some group, somewhere. I don't recall any recognition anywhere on-wiki last Saraswati Day and that would be a whole lot more appropriate to an encyclopaedia; lovely, it's red: see Saraswati and http://www.indo.com/culture/saraswati.html; it's a celebration of knowledge. See why I see systemic bias? It's pervasive.
• the image was not placed the by the user. That page says 'edit this page' and especially encourages things like code fixes, which I did some of. It does not say to mess with the content itself, which mucking with the picture amounts to. If the user had placed the image themselves, I'd certainly not have touched it.
• the image is a lame photoshop job and looks like something off a GeoCities page from about 1996.

Cheers, Jack Merridew 05:14, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

It actually says you can edit the page, it doesn't say you can do code fixes (not that I added the hat anyway). And while a few celebrations are as important as Christmas it is very few. I have now made Saraswati Day a redirect to Saraswati pooja, which certainly is an article in the main space. People are wishing Jimbo a happy winter not a happy summer (as it is in the southern hemisphere) and that's because he lives in America, where I believe Christmas is very popular. Thanks, SqueakBox 15:15, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, it says: my ultimate dream is that some person who thinks it is fun would come along and make it look perfect, or close to perfect. See that link up here that says 'edit this page'? Go for it. It's a "wiki world"! which was what I had in mind. And I didn't know we had an importance scale for celebrations ;) NB: Saraswati pooja would seem to be a different celebration than Saraswati Day. Hindus have a great many. Jack Merridew 15:35, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Whoops, I have fixed that one. And to cover all the Hindi festivals in detail in the main space is absolutely what countering systemic bias is all about. My Hindi colleague in India wished me a Happy Christmas and I wish I were able to know when to wish her a happy festival because obviously I would not wish her a Happy Christmas and given he is an American happy Christmas seems appropriate as a greeting to Jimbo too, and I guess that was someone's way of saying that. Thanks, SqueakBox 15:54, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Let's not miss the point: When I say "Merry Christmas" to someone of any faith (even Christian), I am saying "Christmas has a happy meaning for me. I therefore wish you the same happy feelings that I have." It's not telling them to "go out and celebrate Christmas." ♪BMWΔ 17:31, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, I got another Merry Christmas message from India today and would not have dreamt of responding with a similar because Christmas isn't a mainstream festival there; I'd say "Happy Yom Kippur" to anyone living in Israel. Thanks, SqueakBox 15:59, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia Spanish abuse

I apologize for approaching you for help, but I honestly don't know who to approach. I am very active on the English Wikipedia and have recently started to work in the Spanish Wikipedia to try to spur growth there. I have worked hard to translate articles regarding WP:Awards, but es:Usuario:Netito777, who's even protected his/her own user page, has deleted all such translations and gone so far as to even delete all unrelated redirects, code templates (called "plantillas"), and userboxes I have created. This is abuse and censorship at its extreme. The Spanish Wikipedia has a different bureaucracy, so I'm not sure where to report such a problem. Please help! --Eustress (talk) 04:17, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Just a note: you should leave messages on Netito's talk page, not his userpage. es:Usuario_Discusión:Netito777 is not protected, and has not been since June. J.delanoy^gabs_adds 04:26, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I meant he's protected his userpage, not the talk page (which still seems odd). I'll leave him a message, but he's reverted all my edits without any edit summary--even those that have nothing to do with Wikipedia awards (e.g., barnstars (Spanish "estrellas"), etc.). I need some sysop help! --Eustress (talk) 04:29, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

It is more of an issue involving es.wiki having a different culture, one in which things such as WP:AWARD are not as accepted. It's not censorship as much as it is a different consensus, and there's nothing that the English Wikipedia can (or should) do, as the two wikis are independent from each other. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 04:32, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

How does creating awards to give to others hurt the work if done well? These editors themselves have award pages linked on their userpages, so I don't see this as a cultural issue. This administrator has not only deleted my awards-related pages but also other non-related templates, userboxes, and redirects I have created. My note (with diffs) to the admin is listed on his user talk page here: es:Usuario_Discusión:Netito777#Abuso.

The Spanish Wikipedia does not have a place like WP:Requests_for_comment/Example_admin to report admin abuse. I'm hoping Jimbo, or some sysop with global or Spanish authority, can help. --Eustress (talk) 05:07, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Essentially, what happens is that a sprawling bureaucracy to give out awards (similar to the one here) is considered a waste of time in the Spanish Wikipedia, as it is not directly related to the encyclopedia (c.f. what happened with Esperanza). You may want to go to WP:TAB, which is the equivalent of WP:AN in es.wikipedia. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 05:54, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Esperanza was deleted b/c it was "counter to the open and transparent spirit of a wiki." I was just creating (or translating) resources to promote WikiLove. And at least Esperanza got a proper MfD. In this case, one administrator did not like the additions so he deleted everything and then went on to delete extra unrelated additions. I will try to work through es:WP:TAB, but I think something bigger is at play here that merits attention from someone with power. --Eustress (talk) 11:56, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I doubt if that person is Jimbo, though, and probably there is no-one to answer your request here, you should try the es.wikipedia. Thanks, SqueakBox 15:54, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

← I've tried all of your suggestions (pleading for help at WP:TAB, trying to compromise with the administrator) but he and others won't even move the articles in question to my user space. And if no one can help, not even Mr. Wales, then this is a sad day indeed. I mean, I have a real life, so worst case scenario I never edit in Spanish Wikipedia again, but I thought the Wikipedia family was bigger than this and strived to be united. --Eustress (talk) 19:50, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

User Eustress was bloqued (in the es.Wiki) per WP:NSW (WP:POINT) for one week. More information can be found here. Editors should ignore this thread. --Kmaster (talk) 21:34, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Why should this thread be ignored? You've silenced me on the Spanish Wiki and then come over here to try to do the same? That seems wrong. --Eustress (talk) 00:27, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Wow...I've never been blocked before. They say I was trying to sabotage them. I did a whole lot of work, which I felt was deleted without due process. The deleting administrator did not try to help me adjust to Spanish Wikipedia at all (it seems some policies are different over there), so I reported the situation (as suggested here). Due to my reporting, the cabal of Spanish Wiki admins thinks I'm out to take down their system or something and has blocked me, so I can no longer discuss the issue. I was very respectful in my comments (which were few) and was never uncivil. The Spanish Wiki system has failed in this instance.

The larger issue here then (one that I'm hoping Mr. Wales can shed light on) is the state of the separate Wikis. Is there no universal controller over all Wikipedia projects, or are we to just to run some social experiment and see how polarized/unified the separate Wikis become? If they are to run independent, perhaps some article could be created that delineates the differences between the language sites. Because of articles like interlanguage links and Wikipedia:Translation on the English Wiki, I believed policies were the same across projects. --Eustress (talk) 00:27, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Es cierto que no hay ningun control central en los wikis; hasta mas cierto es que no vas a conseguir nada aqui tampoco. Thanks, SqueakBox 01:09, 25 December 2008 (UTC) (Eustress translates this not quite accurately as It is true that there is no central control system in the wikis; but more certain is that you are not going to get any help here either.

The reasons why you were blocked are here, and I'm not here to discuss that with you. I'm not even an admin, how could I have "silence" you? This thread should be ignored because it is solved. You violated WP:NSW and you got blocked. And again, I'm not here to discuss that with you, I'm here to inform what were the decisions taken in the Spanish Wiki. --Kmaster (talk) 02:49, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Its only a week, then you can start editing again. Thanks, SqueakBox 18:07, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

User has been unblocked. Nothing more to see, carry on folks. Raystorm (¿Sí?) 00:16, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Schools

Dear Mr. Wales, best wishes to you and happy holidays. I was hoping to get your current thoughts on school articles. You wrote on Nov 7, 2003:

Let me make my point more clear: arguments about what we ought to if someone really starts to abuse wikipedia with thousands and thousands of trivial articles do not prove that we ought to delete any and every article that's too trivial today.

Put another way: if someone wants to write an article about their high school, we should relax and accomodate them, even if we wish they wouldn't do it. And that's true *even if* we should react differently if someone comes in and starts mass-adding articles on every high school in the world.

Let me make this more concrete. Let's say I start writing an article about my high school, Randolph School, of Huntsville, Alabama. I could write a decent 2 page article about it, citing information that can easily be verified by anyone who visits their website.

Then I think people should relax and accomodate me. It isn't hurting anything. It'd be a good article, I'm a good contributor, and so cutting me some slack is a very reasonable thing to do.

That's true *even if* we'd react differently to a ton of one-liners mass-imported saying nothing more than "Randolph School is a private school in Huntsville, Alabama, US" and "Indian Springs is a private school in Birmingham, Alabama, US" and on and on and on, ad nauseum.

The argument "what if someone did this particular thing 100,000 times" is not a valid argument against letting them do it a few times.

Jimbo, Partial solution to rampant deletionism

As of today, schools articles have gone from being an exemption from the Criteria for speedy deletion to not being an exemption at all and I was wondering if what you wrote in 2003 still holds true. On Wikipedia, I back up my belief in school articles through Wikipedia:Verifiability: the many times schools are mentioned by the people they educate and by newspapers, magazines, and television broadcasts. Being able to delete school articles without even a chance for editorial discussion and research is most disheartening to me, considering it bypasses the entire Afd process. I'm not sure what the harm is in at least redirecting a school article to its school district/locality. And what will happen to the articles for foreign schools where the burden on the editor is even greater? --Jh12 (talk) 05:48, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

No, I would not agree with what I wrote in 2003. I had no idea what an eternal nightmare the schools issue would become.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 16:46, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Schools are still exempted from A7. Hut 8.5 16:57, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I just noticed that. It's confusing because aside from the single word "except," it looks like schools got lumped under the same group as other organizations. Regardless, I don't think there has to be any nightmare when it comes to school articles. If there's consensus for deletion, then the articles should be deleted. The fact that there are debates over school articles is why I think they make terrible Csd candidates --Jh12 (talk) 19:26, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

administrators

Are administrators allowed to make sarcastic comments towards users? The administrators don't see when one of their own has done something wrong. Only one administrator was helpful, only to be blocked later.

I find it strange that you say there may be a "heated debate" here. This seems like the only place. 75.91.169.43 (talk) 23:36, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I guess from your second comment that you are relatively new here; however, what's wrong with taking it up with the Admin concerned on their Talk page, or on the appropriate noticeboard, or asking for review at Wikiquette alerts? It's extremely unlikely that Jimbo is going to have the time to investigate such a vague complaint, but I don't mind doing so. --Rodhullandemu 23:45, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I did take it up with the administrators concerned. Seems like I'm blocked now. Admin "Garden" was very helpful. 75.91.169.43 (talk) 23:49, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Posting from another account when you're blocked is only likely to get this account blocked, too. Did you follow the procedures to request unblocking on your blocked account? Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 23:54, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

(ec)You clearly are not blocked now. You were blocked for eight minutes by a very competent and respected Admin, for all the right reasons, in my opinion. I'd advise you take notice of those reasons, lest it happen again, but I'm glad you found a helpful Admin. We are not ogres, but neither are we endless reservoirs of patience. --Rodhullandemu 23:55, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Nobody is seeing the attack by the other administrator. 75.91.169.43 (talk) 00:01, 25 December 2008 (UTC) Somebody edited or deleted my post about this being my only id. It can be verified. I don't hide. I am who I am. 75.91.169.43 (talk) 00:04, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Duh. Sorry, we aren't psychic either. As an IP editor, your history is completely visible to Admins. But if your problems arise from a registered account, we need to know about that to be able to look at it. Can you help us out with that? --Rodhullandemu 00:09, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Duh?????

This is my only IP, I explained that after "LittleRedRidingHood" accused me of using a different one. I posted another statement about this being my only ID and IP and it didn't show up. The only thing is that it must have been altered in some way. I'll say it again. This is my only IP and ID. I'm not hiding from anything, unlike what I'm being accused of here.

I don't see what you're getting at. Sticking to the topic and away from sarcastic comments not relevant is better. I know that you're not an ogre and not psychic. 75.91.169.43 (talk) 00:16, 25 December 2008 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki/User_talk:J.delanoy 75.91.169.43 (talk) 01:56, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

malitious deletions that I've see shouldn't be done either, especially by an admin stalker 75.91.169.43 (talk) 02:20, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

I have been in contact with Jimbo and nothing I have said here or elsewhere is considered harassment or attacking. 75.91.169.43 (talk) 04:04, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Hi!

I'm an Iranian and I can't donate to wikipedia because my country is prohibitted but I translated your appeal to Persian and I am here to say: all the Persian wikipedia's memebers are sad because they can't help wikipedia/wikimedia…Kind Regards --Komeil 4life (talk) 00:24, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Per above user i should admit if you don't see so many Iranians in donor's list it not because we don't like to donate it is because there is no safe way to transfer money to wikifoundation .so we all try to help wiki by our edits and articles.--Mardetanha ^talk 00:29, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

Wishing you the very best for the season. Guettarda (talk) 00:31, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

More Christmas greetings

Frankenstein created a monster which, as portrayed by Boris Karloff, grew beyond his control but was wholly innocent in intention. That is a somewhat clumsy metaphor for Wikipedia, but nevertheless, we have reached the position of being something of a leviathan, which has brought new problems, as those who would seek to weaken us continue to find new ways of exploiting the cracks in the structure. On the whole, however, this should only serve to resist the jealous and the nay-sayer wherever we can. Meanwhile, and in festive tone, I recommend A child's Christmas in Wales and the related song, which always creases me up. It is possible for soul music to come from Wales (in more ways than one, hopefully). --Rodhullandemu 01:01, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

Hello Jimbo Wales! I just wanted to wish you and your family a merry Christmas! May this Christmas be full of great cheer and holiday spirit. Again, merry Christmas! Ashbey 00:58, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

If you don't celebrate Christmas, then happy holidays!

Photo in Your appeal

Hello! In your appeal is your photography, which is (c) all rights reserved, not creative commons, or other free licence. I think, it is bad, when you say "Wikipedia content is free to use by anyone for any purpose", "all dedicated to sharing knowledge freely" and give non-free picture to them. Merry Christmas --Wyksztalcioch (talk) 14:13, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the image is BY-SA. So, it's just that someone erred on the side of caution.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 12:36, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

File description page updated. Cbrown1023 talk 17:27, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Merry Christmas from Promethean

O'Hai there Jimbo Wales, Merry Christmas!

Jimbo Wales,
I wish you and your family all the best this Christmas and that you also have a Happy and safe new year.
Thankyou for all your contributions to Wikipedia this year and I look forward to seeing many more from you in the future.
Your work around Wikipedia has not gone un-noticed, this notice is testimony to that
Please feel free to drop by my talkpage any time to say Hi, as I will probably say Hi back :)

All the Best.   «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l»  (talk)

Feliz Navidad

A vos y a todos los tuyos. Thanks, SqueakBox 19:43, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

A Persian User page?

Dear Jimbo.happy new year.do u like to have a persian version of your userpage? Bbadree (talk) 19:54, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

SMK Semera

Hello Mr. Wales! I need your help! (Well, not specifically YOUR help, but you will do!) Please kindly refer to SMK Semera. Do you think it should get deleted? Thanks.--Mark Chung (talk) 05:00, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

If I were voting, and I am not, I would vote delete.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 12:38, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

wikimedia back up servers

im just wondering, Mr. Wales, does wikimedia store everything on backup hard drives in case the main ones crash? don't all hard drives wear down after a while and break?Herius (talk) 16:41, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

appeal of ArbComm decision

Jim, in a recent post, you said : "I will be strongly inclined to overturn on appeal any decision of the ArbCom that did not include a public discussion and vote."[1]

So, I make an appeal to overturn this recent ArbComm decision: "Encyclopedias are generally expected to provide overviews of scientific topics that are in line with current mainstream scientific thought."[2] This ruling was not discussed publicly, and not publicly voted upon (there was however a limited discussion around WP:MAINSTREAM). I consider this ruling a violation of WP:NPOV, a core policy of Wikipedia, and I see "mainstream" as an example of WP:Weasel word. History has shown that no statement, even from what was considered "mainstream" science, is the ultimate truth; no statement should thus be presented as the truth on wikipedia. (Note: this ruling was instrumental in the decision to ban me.)

Thanks in advance for your consideration. Pcarbonn (talk) 20:36, 26 December 2008 (UTC)