Talk:Llywelyn ap Gruffudd

Parenthetical

"(some would say he was the penultimate, but in effect he was the last ruler)"

Is this relevant/ prudent to an introduction? The Krunk 17:58, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

No; it's gone now. Gareth 18:37, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Henry VII

I'm pretty sure that James III would have been surprised by the claim that Henry VII was king of all Britain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.128.53.171 (talk) 21:05, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Translation

The Welsh version says: "Heddiw, mae yna Gwobr Goffa'r Tywysog Llywelyn ap Gruddydd Prifysgol Cymru i'r traethawd gorau ar gyfer y radd o MPhil neu PhD." What does this mean?

"These days, there's a prize in memory of Prince Llywelyn ap Gruddydd at the University of Wales for the best dissertation at MPhil or PhD level." Marnanel 21:27, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Page name

I've moved this back from Llywelyn Ein Llyw Olaf ap Gruffydd, after Seancdaug moved it there, in accordance with the Manual of Style. — OwenBlacker 11:36, Nov 12, 2004 (UTC)

Page name again

I think that was the right thing to do. Llywelyn ap Gruffudd is either known as Llywelyn ap Gruffudd (note the spelling of Gruffudd which you will find in all modern secondary sources) or Llywelyn Ein Llyw Olaf or Llywelyn the Last. I think the English form is acceptable. Seancdaug's form of Llywelyn Ein Llyw Olaf ap Gruffydd is not one I have seen before. — Lyndafis 15:41, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

According to the Wiki standard for articles on rulers, I would have thought that something like Llywelyn III of Gwynedd or Llywelyn II of Wales would be more appropriate for this article. Siswrn 21:48, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

It is very rarely that you see forms like 'Llywelyn II' for Welsh monarchs; they are almost always distinguished by a description (e.g. Llywelyn Ein Llyw Olaf, Rhodri Fawr, Hywel Dda) or by lineage (e.g. Llywelyn ap Gruffudd). Gareth 10:36, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, but Wikipedia has a convention that sometimes goes against common usage. For example, look at the discussion on 'Mary I of Scotland', who is usually referred to as 'Mary Queen of Scots'. Siswrn 22:35, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I've never seen the form Llywelyn II etc used to refer to welsh monarchs, common usage or not Tswsl1989 07:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Name

It's my understanding that "Llywelyn Ein Llyw Olaf" translates to "Llywelyn, our last prince" as opposed to "last leader". Just a minor point though. Tswsl1989 07:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Llyw is Welsh meaning leader/ steerer. When the last of the Romans left the Britons, the Britonic people were gradually pushed Westward into what we now know as Wales. Princeps Wallie literally translates as Leader of the foreigners, which is what the Saxons called the native Welsh. Wales also got it's name from this.

Llyw & Princeps would appear to mean much the same thing but one is Welsh, one is Latin.

Llywellyn & his wife (Queen?) were known as the Lord & Lady of Snowdon. By whom? I'm assuming at this time the mountain was largely referred to by its Welsh/ Britonic name 'yr Wyddfa'? Snowdon being a Saxon name for the mountain. C Williams - Llantrisant 217.134.255.99 (talk) 00:45, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Annexation

There are several assertions that seem a little POV, or at least are written in somewhat of a loose style: "Edward took particular delight in ...", "With equal deliberateness ...", "the most precious religious relic in Gwynedd ...", "Edward was thereby appropriating the historical and religious regalia of the house of Gwynedd and placarding to the world the extinction of its dynasty and the annexation of the principality to his Crown." (certainly not NPOV, very loose, also "placarding" seems overly trite and probably not true, certainly not "extinction of its dynasty" the next para mentions Rhodri for example).

"ended their lives in captivity" sounds like they all committed suicide, assuming that not to be the case perhaps "remained imprisoned until their deaths", some citations are needed on who the relatives are and where they were held captive if this assertion is to remain. The following para goes on to mention all the relatives (apart from Dafydds sons) who remained free and the manner of their deaths (not in captivity) so this seems internally contradictory.

That last sentence is weasely, two uses of "may". Pbhj (talk) 00:39, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Y Berfeddwlad

A minor point, but surely needs correcting on the 1247 divisions Map is 'Yr Perfeddwlad'. This should read 'Y Berfeddwlad'. See: http://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y_Berfeddwlad

Llywelyn2000 (talk) 22:00, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Mother of Llywelyn

The article gives Llywelyn's mother as Senena ferch Rhodri, but Sir John Wynn's History of the Gwydir family names her as the daughter of Caradog ap Thomas. Anyone got any ideas?