User talk:Tony1

Please click here to leave me a new message.

Because of their length, the previous discussions on this page have been archived. If further archiving is needed, see Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page.

Previous discussions:

• Archive 1 (4 August 2005 to 14 October 2005):

---

Cleveland FAC

Tony, thanks for the comments. I'll get around to editing the prose tomorrow, as it's way past my bedtime here on the US east coast, but in the meantime I've edited nbsp's into the article (exactly what purpose do they serve, though? Is it to keep the unit on the same line with the measurement?), and streamlined the footnotes to always come after a period.

Couple of concerns that I didn't get to, though: first, the figures for the MSA and CSA populations came directly from their respective pages on Wikipedia, and from there they trace back to the 2000 census. Are those usable, or should the entire reference be junked as non-verifiable? Second, I know you didn't bring this up, but if you would take a look at the demographics section. The two photos on the left don't work with the current formatting, and I don't want to lose the census data as I think it's very illustrative of the population rise and fall of the city. Do you have any ideas on how those can be formatted?

Many thanks for your help. Take care -- PacknCanes 06:52, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

• I'll be honest -- I haven't gone through the whole thing with a fine-toothed comb yet. Most of the copyediting has been done so far by EurekaLott and Pentawing; I've been more focused on exactly what to include (and then rewriting the sections that I do work on). I'll get around to going through it more tomorrow, but I was a journalism major in college, so I'd like to think that I'll catch most stuff. Probably not all of it, I'll admit, but not even four eyes can do the trick for me all the time. :) PacknCanes 07:16, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

talk page archiving

Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page

Ryan Norton ^{T | @ | C} 08:03, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Hey Tony!

Hey Tony, just checking up and saying you're doing pretty well. I've seen you around a lot and anyways my main point is to say: I'd like to nominate you for adminship. You currently have 1731 edits, and the magic number for most of us is 2000. So when you get that lucky 2000, leave a note at my talk page stating so, and I'll write up your RfA. Cheers! Redwolf24 (talk—How's my driving?) 03:17, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

University of Michigan

I am thinking of nominating the article for FA soon, but I need a final check of the prose before I proceed. If you get the chance, can you look over the article and tell me if there is anything that has been missed? Thanks. Pentawing 04:58, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

• Concerning the comments, much of the history details are in a sub-article (the history section is merely a summary). As for "school vs. university," I am not sure what you meant here. Can you clarify? On the other hand, I am carefully copyediting the entire article per your suggestions. Thanks. Pentawing 18:48, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the clarification. However, I didn't see that confusion anywhere in the article. Exactly where did you see the problem? Thanks. Pentawing 02:17, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

• I went through and did some modifications, including the following:

1. "Proportion" to "size." The original author of that material had that in mind.
2. "Academic members" to "faculty." I am unsure of this, since faculty seems to be a popular term, especially in the U.S. ("academic member" isn't a term that I normally hear). The number refers to all members of the faculty, including non-tenured members. How should I word this?
3. Removed "prestigious" in front of National Academy. Normally, I don't hear this description being used explicitly (though I could be wrong).

As for the headings, I will defer to your suggestions though it seems that academics is a very popular heading in other university articles. If I wish to use academics as a heading, how do you recommend it be used if the heading is used at all? Anyways, I am thinking of nominating this article for FA soon. Should I wait longer before I proceed? Thanks. Pentawing 03:59, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

• • I decided on "academic profile" for the heading instead of "teaching and learning." Anyways, let me know when you are finished. Pentawing 05:46, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

• You left a note concerning the passage about a U-M flag on the moon being "silly." However, I believe it is an interesting anecdote concerning the alumni network of U-M. This is a unique fact which is often noted by people from U-M, especially university administrators and those affiliated with the alumni network. Pentawing 04:32, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Should it be removed then (that is what you seem to be implying)? Pentawing 04:35, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
    • Edits seem a bit silly, so I reverted to the previous version (if you don't mind). However, I would be open to a better version of it. Pentawing 05:00, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the cleanup of the Microsoft lead!

Admittedly that was the toughest part, as I generally can only do more "functional" prose then the "brilliant" variety :). Also thanks for objecting to featured article candidates with poor writing :). Now, I look forward to your objection to my article :).

(BTW I don't use the search thing here as I don't have that high of an opinion of it, I generally just use google... :))

Ryan Norton ^{T | @ | C} 03:12, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Military History of Canada

Hi Tony, I've been going through the articles on FAC that you're tearing apart quite nicely :). I'm no english major, so I'd like to know what you think of the newly-reworked lead of the Military History of Canada. Mostly I just want writing advice from a professional editor :). Plus, I don't want to waste my time reworking a 50kb article if my changes don't help. One more thing—I worked on the U.S. Navy Marine Mammal Program, addressing most of your concerns, though I'm not sure what the problem is with "The program's roots". Any insight would be most appreciated. --Spangineer (háblame) 04:19, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

FAC/searching

Well, I agree with you about the writing of course (of course its though for me to write FA-standard prose of course :)) :). Anyway, sure, the iMac thing sounds kind of fun and in need of a restructure :).

Also, for searching, you can use something like '"content" site:en.wikipedia.org' on google to restrict yourself to this wikipedia without mirrors - most of the time that works for content and/or finding a page. Although in rare cases if you are looking for a page name the search here can help, its generally not as accurate though :).

Oh yeah - before I forget - the wikipedia search guide is at WP:SEARCH. :)

Ryan Norton ^{T | @ | C} 05:04, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Bach intro

Hi Tony1. Did you mean what I said about the musical family? Maybe I didn't express it well. What I meant was the phrase "one of the most amazing musical families", or whatever it said, is a kind of polite euphemism, because from everything we know it really is THE most amazing musical family, and "one of" seemed to be a kind of shilly-shallying phrase. Since we have no evidence that there's any other family that comes anywhere close, why not just say that it is indeed the most musical family about which we have any records? That was my point, even if I somehow didn't get it across well. Jeremy J. Shapiro 09:21, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Military history of Canada

Thank you very much for your work on this article, it is much improved. Please do note that all of my FACs spend several weeks on peer review, and I always include a request for copyediting as I am well aware that I am quite hopeless at it. If you have any more free time it would be great if you could have a look at Voter turnout, which just cleared PR and is set to be my next FAC. - SimonP 14:19, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

U.S. Navy Marine Mammal Program

Hi Tony, I've gone through U.S. Navy Marine Mammal Program in its entirety, and while my editing skills leave alot to be desired, I've made a number of changes. Do you still oppose its FAC nomination? --Spangineer (háblame) 01:56, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Yikes... and here I thought I was a decent writer :). Great job on this; now we just need to get some more people like you around here so that you don't feel obligated to proofread every featured article candidate that comes down the pike. --Spangineer (háblame) 03:20, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi Tony, I've attempted to address all your outstanding issues on this FAC. What's left that I need to take care of to get your approval? I think we're really close here, and I'd like to get this moving on before it runs out of steam. Cheers! — Johantheghost 10:43, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Federalist No. 10

I've made some changes to this article as you suggested. If you could take another look at the article and respond at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Federalist No. 10, that would be great. Christopher Parham (talk) 06:38, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Hi Tony, I've made some changes to the article per your comments. I'm afraid that I perhaps can't be as helpful as you would wish; see my comments on the FAC page. If you wish the article to adopt your particular preferences, it may be more efficient for you to simply edit the article yourself. Christopher Parham (talk) 18:45, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Click here to leave Peta a message.

Click here to leave RobertG a message.

Click here to leave Wahoofive a message.

Click here to leave Ryan a message.

Click here to leave Nicholas a message.

Click here to leave Carmildo a message.

Generally/Typically

Hi, Tony. I read your reviews on Featured article candidates regularly, as you seem to be one of the few editors there with experience as a copy editor. You obviously know what you are talking about, and I learn a great deal. But help me with this one: You recently commented in the Hamburger candidacy page that there was "a 'generally' that should be 'typically'". Can you explain the difference in usage for me? My dictionary lists them as synonyms. Thanks! BrianSmithson 11:53, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the response, Tony. I generally try to use my words correctly, at least on a typical day. ;) BrianSmithson 02:25, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Texas Ranger Division

My dear Tony, I merely wanted to thank you both for the extensive work you performed at that article and your support at its FAC stage. Allow me to tell you that your contribution was fantastic and comprehensive, and it raised the article's quality as a whole immensely. Your attention to detail and writing style has also been very instructive to me for future contributions. Once again, thank you. I hope we get to collaborate again in the future. Warmest wishes, Shauri smile! 21:14, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

links in microsoft

Indeed - I don't mind one way or the other but another person went through after you de-linked the lowvalue years n' stuff and relinked them again. So I guess they are important to some people :) - thanks again for the edits! Ryan Norton ^{T | @ | C} 02:58, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Microsoft

just go ahead and overwrite my changes - I'll take care of them as they were minor. Ryan Norton ^{T | @ | C} 03:55, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Don't worry about it :). Take a break and maybe come at it at a later time, its not too pressing though, so take your time :). Ryan Norton ^{T | @ | C} 04:13, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Sino-Soviet split

Thanks for your message. It's a long time since I wrote that article and I don't know what state it's in now, and I don't much care whether it's a featured article or not. I wrote it before they days when every article had to have references. Does the Britannica have references? No. But I will see what I can do about it. Adam 09:44, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Image use

Hi Tony. I saw your question at Nichalp's talk page. Chiming in for him, you can download images from other wikis and upload it to commons provided you credit the original uploader in the description page and provide a link to the original image. Also, it would be nice if you inform the original uploader and provide a link to the commons image from the original image page. However, you can do these only if the license is commons-compatible. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 06:03, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi, messaging you after a long time. See here's the problem: If an image is uploaded in the en: wikipeida, it is visible only in the en:wikipedia. If it is uploaded in the de: wikipedia, it is visible only in the de: wikipedia. So you can see we'll be having duplicate images. To prevent this, we have the wikimedia commons: so that images can be uploaded to a common project, that can be linked to all wikimedia projects.

What can be uploaded to commons

1. Free images ONLY: ie GFDL compatible: viz:- PD, GFDL, cc-by, cc-by-sa
2. Free images without English text. Therefore maps, charts etc with (English) text are not suitable.

To upload images there, you'd need to create an account first. If you upload an image from de: to commons, make sure you copy the information verbatim. User:Nichalp/sg 10:47, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Re: Suggestion for Peer Review advice

As I am generally in favor of anything that may increase reviewer participation on Peer Review, I suggest that you place your suggestion to have submitters send a note to other contributors asking for feedback on Wikipedia talk:Peer review for others to see. The one point of concern I see is what to do when a submitter is not aware of any other Wikipedians with knowledge or interest in an articles subject matter. --Allen3 ^talk 16:46, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

RE: sound excerpts and copyright

Hi! Template:Music sample seems to be the fair-use tag you're after. As for your work on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Composers#Guidelines for using sound excerpts, it seems very good to me. Also, it's great to see more audio creeping onto Wikipedia. :) Michael 04:13, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, perhaps Template:PermissionAndFairUse is what you're after? If that's not suitable, I believe a new tag will need to be created. As for the other template, I agree with your concerns. Michael 06:23, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

There is a copyrighed, used with permission, no fair use template, (Template:Copyrighted), but media under such terms is no longer acceptable on Wikipedia. Michael 11:33, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Belgium

Dear Tony, I have submitted Belgium for peer review. I would like to submit Belgium as a FAC. I know you are a usual critique within this club. I therefore ask you whether you could have a look at the article before I submit it. As a non native speaker I have some doubt about the orthograph, style and grammar of this article. Thank you Vb20:36, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Dear Tony, Thank you very much for your copyedit! That's a great job. I love your English and your criticisms are all sound and useful. I have now changed the Belgium article according to your remarks. Don't hesitate to check this up. I'll soon remove the copyedit flag and submit the article as FAC. Yours Vb09:40, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Nominated for adminship

See Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Tony1 and accept or reject the nomination and answer the questions. Lemme know when you've done as such :) Redwolf24 (talk) 23:17, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Oi, you forgot to sign your acceptance. Then add the page to watchlist, and I'll post it at RfA :) Redwolf24 (talk) 02:50, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Green's fine. Now just sit back and watch :) Redwolf24 (talk) 02:55, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Atlantis

Thanks for your contributions to Atlantis, it really helped clean up some of the language and made it a much better read. The article has come a long way in 2 months. Check out an older version. Reflex Reaction 13:28, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Linking query in FAC

Hi Tony, thanks for your suggestion. I read the pages you suggested, and I have to say that I don't think linking a term like lepton twice in the ATLAS article, once in the Physics Program section, and once waaay down in the Data Systems section, doesn't seem to contradict those guidelines. The meaning of the word is important to understand the concept, and someone who doesn't understand it the second time will have great difficulty finding the first link given the length of the article. Or do I misunderstand? -- SCZenz 16:51, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Mário de Andrade

Tony, thanks for your comments at the FAC, and thanks even more for your edits. I understand that you wanted to get to some more edits, but I was hoping you might let me know if there's anything I can do to improve the article. The nomination seems to have stalled, and I'm concerned that it'll archived for no consensus, even though it hasn't really received much in the way of opposition. Thanks. Chick Bowen 17:47, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Bach images from German Wikipedia

Dear Tony1, I think no one will object to the reuse of any Wikipedia image as long as the given license is respected. What is more, the particular images you mention are public domain. The only thing to consider is whether to move them to Wikicommons. Best regards, Qpaly (Christian) 08:43, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Pictures

You can have whatever you like, to me pictures are in children's book, illustrations in adult's and reference books. But I don't feel very strongly one way or the other.

Spanish renaissance, especially ecclesiastic architecture was more influenced by French pilgrims visiting the numerous Spanish shrines any Arab influences that remained were suppressed, (think inquisition). How the Alhambra survived is a miracle. Philip II recalled Spanish architects from Florence to design Escorial c1570,which is based on a Roman palace (I've forgotten where, probably Spalato) Spanish architecture then became a little more restrained sort of high renaissance and mannerism, but I'm not wandering into tangents off subject, people can look these things up for themselves if they are interested. Regarding the Arabs in Sicily, their architecture tended to be geometric etc., baroque is scrolls and flows, I would discount great influence there too, even if I did think it, it's not mentioned in any of the ref. books on the subject, and one thing is for certain here, any own opinions are always found out. Regards Giano | talk 09:49, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Rfa/commas

Hi, No I'm actually a fan of commas! They're sadly underused in much of the writing I come across. Dlyons493 Talk 11:49, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

The personal requests you asked

From the peer review for Architecture of Mac OS X you asked me:

Two personal requests: What's the difference between 'crash' and 'hang'? AND How do you key in the curly apostrophe—I can only access this by keying in (ampersand)rsquo(semicolon), and would love to do it in one keystroke.

• Well, basically,...a crash is usually recoverable, while a hang isn't. When an application is crashing, it is not responding and not doing what you normally expect it to. A hang, on an operating system using cooperative multitasking will most likely make the entire system hang, and you will need to restart the OS (resulting in you losing unsaved work, we've all been there...!), but on OSes such as Mac OS X and Windows XP which use preemptive multitasking, a restart should not be required because the task/program having trouble can be terminated.

• To be honest, though I'm not proud of saying this, I'm too sure about your second question. I don't use the curly apostrophe, I think the easiest way to get it, really, is to use the Special Characters palette (I see you're on Mac OS X, so yes, this is instructions for Mac OS X). Go into the Finder, and select 'Special Characters' from the Edit menu. On the sidebar, in the palette, open the Punctuation section, in there you'll find the curly apostrophe. Click on your target of where you want to insert it (wikipedia edit box, textedit, word document, etc etc), and click the Insert button in the palette.

If you don't have this option in your Edit menu, then you must be using OS X 10.2 or an even older version, and I think if I remember correctly those versions don't have the special characters palette, but instead the old Key Caps program in your Applications folder that might be able to do it.

I hope this is what you wanted.

If you need any more help, or have any more questions, feel free to ask.

— Wackymacs 19:17, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your responses to my two questions. Let me know how your OS X Architecture article goes. I wonder whether you can safely omit 'Mac' from 'Mac OS X', after the first occurrence? Tony 19:29, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

• Yes, it is often referred to as OS X, now that everyone knows of it (in the computer world). Some even write it as OSX, but I think OS X looks better. However this isn't official, Apple only seem to ever call it Mac OS X. — Wackymacs 19:34, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Maybe you've seen the article on iMac. Various people have been tinkering with it, and I put it through Peer Review a month ago (although nothing much came up). I'd like to get it to FA standard by the end of November. Tony 19:39, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

• Well, I've seen all the Mac articles here, I've been making a huge effort towards the Apple Macintosh article, which was a recent Article Improvement Drive nomination, and it got through, and had a week's time of being improved. I think the Apple Macintosh, summarizing the history and all the aspects of the Mac (history, cult, software/hardware, etc etc) is more important than the iMac article, and then once Apple Macintosh is FA standard, then I'll be interested in doing iMac.

I must ask, since you're really good at copy-editing, can you copy-edit Xanadu House, the first article I wrote for Wikipedia. It needs quite a rewrite, and I've tried to get it to FA twice and failed. — Wackymacs 19:44, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

• OK thanks, that's fine. There's no rush. :) — Wackymacs 20:01, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

• Thanks for that bit of minor editing so far, I must admit its not be best piece of work ever. I wrote it rather quickly, and a rather long time ago. It is however a really great topic, and would be ideal to become an FA once its been rewritten and sorted out. — Wackymacs 20:50, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Luto again

Hi, Tony. Have you noticed that Lutoslawski is currently scheduled to be the front-page article on Sunday 6th Nov? I've made some of the changes to the intro you suggested a month ago. Did you ever find references for the Bartok/Stravinsky/Prokofiev influences? - and Luto's influence on other composers' style? They should go in the article before the go in the intro. If you have any references let me know them I'll try and dig them out: I may have time to write something over the next week or so (unless you have time to do it yourself). The only thing I can think of from the top of my head where he influenced others is the use of the "curlew mark" for unsynchronised repeats of small phrases in late Britten (e.g. Death in Venice, String Quartet No. 3), and I've never seen that cited as a direct Luto influence. --RobertG ♬ talk 10:20, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

The lead "snapshot" for the front page is just a Wiki page; it may be protected, but since I'm an admin (and it seems you may be one too soon) I can edit it nevertheless. So I figured there's no hurry to do that, I can copy the lead over towards the end of next week when we're sure it's stable. --RobertG ♬ talk 08:37, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

RfA - a response

I looked over your RfA board and was wondering whom you are referring to (User:Giano or User:Bishonen). However, I don't know what to say about this since I normally don't become involved with these things. The fact that one of your antagonists is going about convincing others of their case against you (if I read correctly) is something I don't condone, but you have to realize that sooner or later conflicts are going to arise. I can't stomach conflicts myself, but I have to keep that in mind whenever I get involved with Wikipedia (an open environment with various egos fighting against one another). Nevertheless, I will be willing to support your candidacy due to your good works here at Wikipedia (and the last thing I want to see is a good user like yourself leave the project and hand this whole endeavour to the mob). I am hoping that you will not leave Wikipedia completely, that if push comes to shove you should instead take some time off and then return (a "Wikibreak" as some call it). On the upside, the RfA board doesn't appear borderline (36 support votes to 9 oppose at last count). I can't see how this could fail unless one of the people you mentioned is indeed trying to sabotage it. If there is something I missed, please fill me in on it. I'll try to help if I can. Pentawing 01:54, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Reagrding your RfA

Greetings—I've run into you once or twice as part of the composers project but unfortunately I spend less time there lately, so I don't think I've interacted with you much. However, I have seen your work about and think that on the whole it is excellent; Wikipedia needs editors who have a strong eye for quality prose and factual accuracy, and who can fairly judge the merits of an article. I've seen plenty of examples of your work on that and on that basis I endorsed your request.

However, I do think a calm approach to disagreements is important for adminship and on the basis of your recent comments on FAC and elsewhere I had to change to a neutral stand. Your editing skills and knowledge make you a real asset to the project. But people are understandably uneasy at the prospect of granting adminship to someone who reacts harshly, even under provocation. (And yes, I can clearly see what would have led you to frustration.) I've seen your stated intent to leave the project in the event that your RfA fails and I think that would be a real shame, and a great loss to Wikipedia. Particularly considering that you hadn't expressed any great desire for admin rights in the first place: it's a loss for a good editor to spend too much time on admincruft, too, and if it weren't sometimes frustrating not to be able to carry out the occasional admin task without having to ask for assistance I wouldn't want people who are almost entirely content editors to become admins at all!

I do hope you'll reconsider your decision to leave. Whatever embarrassment you may face as a result of it will blow over and be forgotten. Particularly if you see how your words may have come off to others as frustrated for their own reasons as you are for yours, whose emotions are running high and nerves wearing thin trying to get through the FAC process. (I've done it only once myself, and as someone sensitive to criticism, it was stressful for me even though relatively speaking I didn't get much in the way of opposition.) The points you make are valid, and your criticisms needed, but you've come off harshly and I know at least one of the other editors feels like you've been dismissive toward her, whether that was your intent or not.

If you truly do shun conflict and wish not to be immersed in it, perhaps withdrawing the nomination gracefully and quietly addressing the concerns of your opposition on their talk pages attempting to seek resolution would be a step toward that, and no one with any sense would hold that against you. I would hate to see you leave the project on bad terms over one incident that got out of hand; it would be our loss as well as yours. Respectfully, Mindspillage (spill yours?) 02:44, 29 October 2005 (UTC)