User talk:Fritzpoll

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Frasier

Howdy. Did you contact anybody for information afterwards? About the bot. I can see you are too busy to worry about coding because of afds but what do you suggest we do about the situation? I'm still having to do a great number of time consuming repetitive edits which could be done in minutes by a programme. What do we do? Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 12:57, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

No, not yet. The AfDs I'm closing are being done because they're quick - the bot is being coded offline. Give me a few hours, and I'll see where I can get to - I literally have the code open. Bear in mind, we'll need a BRFA Fritzpoll (talk) 14:41, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Your bot needed to add referenced data

Fritz I need your bot to add data from a given source to all the unreferenced articles we have on the districts of Vietnam. PLease see the referenced sentences I;ve been adding to places like Buôn Đôn District. I have a great number to do and I could sure use your bot to add them for me. What I need is for you to process the data here and insert the data into those referenced sentences for each article. Basically the sentences here from "As of 2003 to ref list" need adding for each district and preferably read the population, area and capital figures placed in the correct places. Would you be able to help me out? You did say that you would be up for some cleanup tasks, these are pretty beneficial ones as they are districts with a 1000 or so square kilometres and mostly one liners. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 22:22, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I'm on it. Will code up the task later and submit it for approval Fritzpoll (talk) 17:34, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

I could sure use your help on it. I didn;t know though if you ever planned on using the bot again. What I am doing is gradually adding an infobox and translation template to the articles too, the translation template is a bridge to further expansion of the article later. I have also begun making some maps to improve the articles. See Đắk Glei District for instance. If a bot could add an infobox too to any districts I haven't got to so far this would greatly relieve the repetitive edits I would have to do and allow me to try to expand from Vietnamese wiki. I think it is a task that should be cleaned up by a bot rather than manually. Somebody has to develop these one liners into something more substantial! Basically all our articles should have the basics like Buôn Đôn District rather than Hoành Bồ District! Would it be possible for the bot to add something like this. Make all of the articles consistent bascially restarting them with adequate details. I've drawn up nav templates by region all that would need to change would be whatever province it is in and data. You can view the templates at Category:Vietnam district templates Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 18:50, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Well infoboxes don't need adding any longer I added all those manually so thats one less thing to worry about, we just need to insert the data directly from the page listed into the articles and infoboxes. I've nearly done two regions of Vietnam manually but it very hard going! I've been expanding the articles from sub stubs into ones like An Phu so anything which can at least give everyone population/area and capital figures will be a bonus and allow me to concentrate more on translating them and expanding them. The vast majority Fritz look like Duyên Hải District. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 15:25, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Just solving an issue getting to the redirects. Give me another hour - I may be able to do this without a BRFA Fritzpoll (talk) 15:48, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Ugh - having to update the framework I use.... (time slowly ends) Fritzpoll (talk) 18:15, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Fritz can you please try to get the bot coded within 48 hours otherwise I will start getting complaints about the text in the articles without the data. I already promised one guy I'd have in done very soon but there is only so much I can do manually. If you can't do it please tell me and I'll continue trying to get it done manually. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 16:12, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Still on it: Am I replacing existing text or just appending new stuff? Fritzpoll (talk) 16:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

For most of it the empty sentences have been inserted already for me to come along and enter the data. Like Duyên Hải District, it just needs to add the data and in the infobox. However a number of districts haven't got the sentences yet. It would therefore probably have to be done in two stages or probably best thing is to get the bot to readd the text sentences with the data in them. Are you sure it can be done? Can the bot read the district names as on that website they are plain but on wikipedia they are in the native lettering with District after it e.g will be listed as Duyen Hai not Duyên Hải District as on here. The letters are the same except for the little change. There are however redirects from the plain district names that are listed on that website on here, so perhaps it could read it from that. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 16:27, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that was the trick I had to invoke last night - I have it entering in the plain names and following the redirects. I'll output an error log for any that it struggled with. It would be easier to just eliminate the existing sentences and reinsert them. Have the empty sentences all been entered the same way? Fritzpoll (talk) 16:34, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

The articles without any empty text look like Ngọc Lặc District. Yes I think the best thing would be to readd them and get the bot to override the existing empty text, as long as it doesn't overide any I've already added text too!! Hehe. If however it is easier for the bot to overide it all and get it all done consistently I'll have no complaints at all. As long as it can be reinserted and not remove any other existing text such as the list of communes etc or any other info. So basically if Ngọc Lặc District and the others looks like Mỏ Cày District by the end of it all it will be mission accomplished. I'll try to get the second region done manually now, see Category:Vietnam district templates the first two Central Highlands and Mekong are nearly done. It would be best to work through those I'd imagine. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 16:34, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

What I'll do is set up a manual review of it, so that I have to decide what do do based on the article content. That has several advantages, such as not requiring a BRFA, and being able to decide what do do with various articles. Should have it done soon (work permitting) Fritzpoll (talk) 16:48, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

OK mate I appreciate that. I doubt it would need a lengthy approval though. As long as the district articles at the end of it consistently contain the referenced data extracted from that page it should be OK. Once that is in place I can work towards developing them further. As long as it doesn't overide any other information in the articles it should be OK. 16:51, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Long term goal is to have all of the districts up to An Phú District length. The move twoards adding consistent initial data is the first step, the rest will need writing manually I'm afraid, unless of course your bot is from Saigon and can translate? Hehe Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 16:55, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

(e/c) :In the medium term, I'm going to write some software for you to help you perform tasks like these. Watch this space...maybe we'll discuss it by e-mail Fritzpoll (talk) 16:56, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

That would be awesome although I'm pretty dull when it comes to computer programming, you'd need to educate me well! I bet you knew more at the age of 5 than I do about coding! Yes well I also have the Template:Departments of Cameroon to all start too, again using the data from a single statoids page. I just wish there was more people with bot know-how on here that were running bots in the mainspace either generating articles or cleaning up existing ones. Most of the bot editors on here only seem to run bots which drill people messages or make minor edits with links etc. I'm not a lazy person, far from it but with the tasks I do on here with geo articles it sure gets frustrating that I haven't the knowledge to programme something auto-generated to assist me, I can't expect others like yourself to do jobs all the time. Ultimately I wish I could genetically engineer a super editor combining both our talents and just unleash it on wikipedia! Hehe. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 17:11, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

If you can use a template, you'd be able to use this program. You won't see the code behind it, or have to fiddle with it. Do you use Windows? Fritzpoll (talk) 17:22, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes Windows XP. For example I just made Template:County-level divisions of Gansu. I now need to administer this nav template at the foot of all the articles listed in there. I know this could quite easily be programmed to be added by auto generation, however my lack of knowledge now means I have to do it manully. You know stuff like that. Some of it is very simple but very repetitive maintenance work that I do. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 17:40, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

uCoz

The article about uCoz has been deleted groundlessly.

First of all uCoz is not a software. It is a service (hosting and CMS). If you want to identify the notability of a service, you must know how many people use it. So, if you measure notability according to the number of press releases and high PR articles, you make a mistake. Because it is an indirect indication which depends on PR activity but not notability. You can see the number of uCoz users by the Alexa rank for the following domains: ucoz.com, ucoz.net, ucoz.org, ucoz.co.uk, ucoz.de, ucoz.es, ucoz.ru, ucoz.ua, ucoz.kz, ucoz.lv, ucoz.cn, at.ua, 3dn.ru, my1.ru, clan.su, moy.su, do.am. Now uCoz has 716189 active users (top.ucoz.com). So, isn't this number an indication of its being a mass service? Meskalyto (talk) 15:41, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

I closed the AfD based on the discussion at that venue. Please refer to deletion review if you have any problems with this close, as I'm presently a little busy Fritzpoll (talk) 15:49, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Closure of the Yvonne Bradley DRV as endorsed without prejudice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2009_March_11#Yvonne_Bradley

In case you wonder, "Without prejudice" means that the DRV isn't considered fully conclusive; it maintains the status quo, but if, for example, the article is improved and whoever is responsible (you? me? beats me, but I think it doesn't matter) doesn't agree to let it come back in) refuses, then a new DRV could be filed based on the condition of the userfied article at that time.

Some seem to think that the job at DRV is to determine if the admin closing made a mistake. It's not. It is to give articles another review, and always that review should be of the best available version. An admin can make a perfectly correct close, but if new evidence appears establishing notability of a deleted topic, DRV should reverse the decision.

This was my first XfD close. Should I be preparing for the egg-in-the-face? --Abd (talk) 22:01, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Be prepared for one. Not sure it's deserved though. Fritzpoll (talk) 22:04, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hip Hop culture and Islam

What the heck is up with this afd? The discussion was closed as keep, but the article is a red link and isn't even in the deletion log. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 22:16, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

No idea, but it was moved. See my comment at User_talk:MacGyverMagic#Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion.2FHip_Hop_culture_and_Islam Fritzpoll (talk) 22:48, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

• I did it mainly because of WP:BLP issues. Claiming someone is from a certain religion or ethnic group without providing the sources to back it up can cause complaints and other problems in the current political climate it is asking for trouble. Because the article topic relied on this connection I chose to userfy rather than delete. - Mgm|^(talk) 12:20, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Yes, but on what basis did you do either? The AfD closed as keep - under what process are you removing the article from userspace? Fritzpoll (talk) 12:21, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
• I'm gonna assume you meant to use the word 'articlespace' in that last question. I applied Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Remove unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material which says unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material can be deleted without discussion. No amount of consensus can counter that policy; if I wanted to I could've deleted the entire article based on that, but I decided to give the author a chance to fix it. By userfying, I followed the AFD outcome to keep the material even though policy didn't require me to do that. -- Mgm|^(talk) 12:32, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Right, gotcha. Not got a problem with that - was just desperately confused, and foolishly not understanding, hence my questions! Fritzpoll (talk) 12:34, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
• I'm glad I was able to clear it up. If you think another user would be more active in fixing the page, please feel free to move it elsewhere or inform them of its userfication. If after a couple of weeks there's no improvement, I'm not going to be lenient anymore. - Mgm|^(talk) 14:01, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Deletion of Talk:Yvonne Bradley

Fritzpoll, normally the Talk page of a redirected article would not be deleted, it should stay in place. Would you restore it, please? This whole thing became a bit of a mess because of the userification. Userification is common when an article is deleted, but not when it is Merged. A merged article can actually be worked on in situ, or on a working copy someone makes, it doesn't take an admin.... Once the Talk page is restored, I could do some things to keep all Yvonne Bradley discussion in one place (basically redirect the attached talk page of the userfied article to the mainspace Talk page, copying the current Talk there.

On the other hand, if there was nothing on that old talk page of any substance, forget it, just, please, let me know. Thanks. --Abd (talk) 22:17, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Nothing of substance. Feel free to create. Fritzpoll (talk) 22:49, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. --Abd (talk) 01:46, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Restoration of Yvonne Bradley

I should be grateful if you would do the honours and restore the improved Yvonne Bradley article to Wikipedia mainspace.---PJHaseldine (talk) 13:22, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I would like to hear from Geo Swan first, please. It is his userspace, after all. Fritzpoll (talk) 13:25, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

The article isn't quite ready, there are sections which seem polemic, unencyclopedic. It still needs some cleanup; hopefully, though, there are enough sources showing independent notability for it to go back. While theoretically it could be restored without cleanup, if there is enough there to establish notability, it's less disruptive to first satisfy the inevitable objections of biased presentation, etc. So I support waiting for cleanup. It should not take long. Patience, PJH. --Abd (talk) 18:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I recognize that restoration, in the article's current state is certain to trigger controversy, possibly an additional {{afd}}. I would perfer to avoid as much controversy as possible.

I continue to think the best approach would be for those with a good faith interest in this article to continue to incorporate additions that would satisfy those who looked at the article who have expressed good-faith concerns, but who would support the inclusion of an improved article. I would prefer to ask for restoration to article space only after more additions have been made.

As earlier, the recent flood of unexpected {{afd}}s leaves me too little time to do much work on this article this week.

Thanks for asking. Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 20:12, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Will refrain from assessing the article for a return to articlespace on the basis of these comments Fritzpoll (talk) 20:37, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

My advice to Fritzpoll is to be bold and restore the article.

Fannying about with concerns that it "is certain to trigger controversy" should not be an issue. Please get on and do it.---PJHaseldine (talk) 21:37, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry - not at this time. Fritzpoll (talk) 21:52, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

OK - when?---PJHaseldine (talk) 21:55, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I'll answer that, though of course FP is more than welcome to correct me if I don't get it right. When the article's return to mainspace won't trigger a disruptive AfD. AfDs and DRVs take up massive amounts of editor time, when consensus isn't clear and so debate rages. It is far better to avoid this if possible. You are thinking about one article. We are thinking about the whole project. All of us, here, want the article to return when it's ready. If Fritzpoll were to take your advice and go ahead and restore it, it's just a fact: there would be another AfD, more disruption, and this time a new close by a new admin. Would the decision be better or worse? What I've been trying to tell you, PJH, is that you got a good result from the first AfD. You were lucky. It could easily be worse. Let this go, work on the article in user space, accept or at least consider carefully the advice of senior editors, or editors who are seniors (moi), or anyone, for that matter, seek consensus, don't worry if every last fact of interest is in the article but cooperate to make sure that whatever is there is very solidly sourced, and to make sure that there is sufficient evidence of independent notability, and make sure that the language is encyclopedic and not like some opinion piece or in a chatty style, etc., and then, when it is ready -- could be a few days, depends on how much effort is put in -- the article will go back, I'm sure; if you think it is taking too long, ask me to consider a new DRV. I closed the old one, you know, and there was a method to my madness. I won't do it, though, unless I consider it necessary, because I really do trust Fritzpoll, and you should, too. --Abd (talk) 22:46, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I am going to respond to this question on User talk:Geo Swan/Guantanamo/review/Yvonne Bradley, and give Fritzpoll back his or her talk page. Geo Swan (talk) 22:06, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks - it's on my watchlist anyway, so I'll chip in if necessary. Fritzpoll (talk) 22:11, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I, too, will respond there. --Abd (talk) 22:46, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

INre Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Casanovva

Please userfy this article to me at User:MichaelQSchmidt/sandbox.Casanovva so I may continue its sourcing for return to mainspace in 18 days when principal filming begins. Thank you. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 19:35, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

 Done at User:MichaelQSchmidt/sandbox/Casanovva Fritzpoll (talk) 20:41, 18 March 2009 (UTC)