Talk:Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Difference between revisions

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Tracklisting

I have changed the tracklisting to a another format (using the Train of Thought page as reference).

As "The Shattered Fortress" is said to have Steps X-XII in the AA Suite, I've put those up but left the section names blank.
_~~N a N 20:27, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

All right, that's cool. Thanks. BT^C 20:43, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Change the name to 12 Steps Suite. Don't have the source, but Portnoy said on the Eddie Trunks show that it should be referred to as that. Does anyone have a source? Perpetualchange (talk) 18:36, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree it should be moved, here's a link to the interview. black ngold29 20:09, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Song lengths

Is this site a reliable source?

http://www.daveling.co.uk/diary.htm

It is what is currently being sourced for the song lengths. However, the song lengths aren't really being assigned to a song, so is this a keeper or no, since it has the song lengths of this album?

Backtable^{Speak to Me}about what I have done 04:17, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That appears to be a personal blog, which is not a WP:RS. black ngold29 04:20, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I thought as much. It's not reliable. Backtable^{Speak to Me}about what I have done 03:11, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I found this on Encyclopaedia Metallum:[1]. Is that a reliable source? User:Dexxrot —Preceding undated comment added 07:01, 15 April 2009 (UTC).[reply]

I doubt it; it probably comes from the same source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.134.187.77 (talk) 01:05, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Encyclopaedia Metallum is a nice site, but it is not a reliable source. Sites where people can freely edit content are not reliables source for wikipedia. I used to source it too, but I learned eventually. Backtable^{Speak to Me}about what I have done 03:08, 16 April 2009 (UTC

It seems the track lengths have come back, this time with a source cited, that seems to be nothing other than that same link posted on Mike Portnoy's forum, which I do not think was confirmed by him. Unless I'm missing something, I think they need to come down again.

Removed. It's difficult to warn anyone about this because it is so many different IPs adding them. black ngold29 17:07, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

These constant additions of the song lengths are sickening me. I don't understand how people disregard the warnings so much and either add no source or add an unreliable source, both of which drive me mad. When will it end!!?!??! Backtable^{Speak to Me}about what I have done 02:31, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've requested semi-protection of the page, hopefully they'll release the lengths soon. black ngold29 03:17, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's good. You may or may not know that I previously submitted this page to be semi-protected back when the problem with the song lengths was still fairly fresh. It was denied. Hopefully, with more of these events happening, the proposal will be accepted. I would love it if this page got semi-protected. Thank you for doing that. Backtable^{Speak to Me}about what I have done 03:32, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome! It got semi-protected! Yes! Backtable^{Speak to Me}about what I have done 02:36, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is this sufficiently confirmed? http://faq.dtnorway.com/question/1101 - it comes from the promo itself. 88.90.215.130 (talk) 00:02, 24 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What promo? I don't believe that site is officially affiliated with the band. black ngold29 00:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The promo of the album. That the site has. Due to it being an official dream theater fanclub. Hence - officially affiliated with the band. But if you don't believe me: http://dtnorway.com/bcslpromo.jpg Noxon (talk) 13:01, 24 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That does add some credibility to the song lengths, but I wouldn't go on wikipedia and add the song lengths just yet. The album is a promo album, and not a final draft. Song lengths are still subject to change for the final draft of the album. Backtable^{Speak to Me}about what I have done 22:28, 24 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

But now there's an "approximate" length on many of the songs, instead of the absolute ones that are proven above, based solely on a review coming from the -very same promo-. Either change it to the details on the promo, or remove the tracklengths altogether. If the promo turns out to be "unfinished" (something that is EXTREMELY unlikely at this point), it's easy enough to fix later. Therefore i updated it now to contain this information. You'll also see that these numbers coincide by the numbers from Dave Ling. How much more confirmation do you need until you accept that this is it? Noxon (talk) 01:09, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Aw, crap. Maybe I shouldn't have rejected that photograph. I'll consult the main editor about this photo and see what he says. Backtable^{Speak to Me}about what I have done 02:43, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(undent) I agree with what Backtable has said so far. I suppose at this point it seems that no matter what we try the lengths will find a way onto the article. Technically there still isn't a reliable source (no picture is reliable thanks to Photoshop), but I would rather have the lenghs from the picture than the approximate ones that are in there now. black ngold29 03:11, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just to keep this page up to speed, I added a sentence that the lengths are based on the promo album and may not be final. As I said above that source is probably not technically reliable, but for a temporary addition (the album is due out in 57 days, and we should have track length confirmation even sooner) I think its inclusion is an acceptable compromise to all of the controversey around the section. black ngold29 06:05, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Content change request

{{editprotected}} I will start by thanking User:SoWhy for the lock of Black Clouds & Silver Linings it was much needed, unfortunately it is now locked with the track lengths cited to a personal blog which is not a WP:RS, nor does it actually list which songs are which lengths, as it simply gives a list of numbers. The lengths have been added/removed for a few days now, but it was only recently somebody provided that site as a reference. Discussion on the talk page above and hidden messeges (in multiple places) have been ignored. If you could remove the lengths for that reason it would be appreciated. Thank you. black ngold29 13:39, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Blackngold is right. I already pointed out in my summary for editing the page earlier (I'm on a different IP address right now) that the link is NOT a reliable source, because it's a personal blog. Sure, all of the track lengths add to approximately 75 minutes and 22 seconds, which is plausible as Mike Portnoy stated that the album is around 75 minutes long, but the personal blog is more likely to be opinionated rather than factual.

Basically, to sum this all up: Sure, you may have found a source for the track lengths, but that source, which is a personal blog, is NOT reliable. A more reliable source would be from Dream Theater's website or Roadrunner Records' website. Am I wrong? I hope this cleared things up. The track lengths should be removed. -207.233.110.70 (talk) 17:49, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 23:34, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Damn editing disputes! Geez, there were even warnings posted not to add them! Dang anonymous users ignoring the warnings! By the way, I requested the other day to that protection page that this page would be semi-protected, but it was declined. This sucks that this page has to be immune from editing for seven days, all because of some petty little fight started by an anonymous user that ignored the warnings! Damnation! By the way, sorry about the anger expressed in this post. It was not directed to anyone on this talk page (keyword: this talk page). Backtable^{Speak to Me}about what I have done 03:11, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I don't see reasons for this article to be fully protected. --ProgressiveAeternus ^(talk) 13:36, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As much as I hate the fact that it's fully protected, I'm not against the decision. The editing dispute went on for a long time and this is an appropriate solution to that dispute. It happened on the Cynic (band) page with some genre format disputes, and that basically solved the dispute. Peace. Backtable^{Speak to Me}about what I have done 01:28, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Past Tense

{{editprotected}}

A video will be shot in March for the album's first single...

This sentence above taken from the article should be in past tense.RockyMM (talk) 07:53, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done, thanks. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:26, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Leak section?

The first two songs on the album were leaked today or yesterday, on the Mike Portnoy forum there's a thread where an admin says that a radio station broadcasted them and then put the podcasts on the web. I dont know if that's a reputable source and if it is, I don't know if the album should get a leak section. I know other albums like Octavarium got a pre-release leak section, was wondering if this album should get one. Just checkin. Austin Joseph Billings 01:36, 20 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dragonfly298 (talk • contribs)

I would like to see a better source than a forum, even if it is Portnoy's, before I'd support adding that. black ngold29 01:41, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

mmmk, it might show up on some news sources or maybe the dt website soon. thanks :) Austin Joseph Billings 01:44, 20 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dragonfly298 (talk • contribs)

I have a link to the radio station that linked them and have heard the songs. I can post it if you all think that would be a good enough source. 141.225.76.23 (talk) 02:15, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I actually got the songs myself, but I'm not sure what radio station posted them. Link us and that may be a good enough source Austin Joseph Billings 02:36, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

http://ww1.rtp.pt/multimedia/index.php?prog=1068 4-16 has one song 14 minutes in. 4-17 has a song 16 minutes in. 141.225.76.23 (talk) 02:42, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And the links are now removed. 141.225.76.23 (talk) 19:38, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

They're definitely out there now. If someone can find a definitive link saying so, I'd say it's worth mentioning.142.68.216.249 (talk) 03:26, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It seems obvious at this point that they are spreading, but unless we can get a WP:RS to back that up it shouldn't be added. Most have probably noticed the above section about track lengths, but I don't even see a source that's as substantial as the one we're using for those. black ngold29 06:10, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Best of Times

It's been stated by both Mike Portnoy(in the Eddie Trunk interview)and Jordan Rudess(in the DT Norway interview) that the song "The Best of Times" was written about Mike Portnoy's father. There should be a page for this song that states this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheMuffinMan92 (talk • contribs) 17:25, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There are guidelines for notability which the song must meet before it has its own article. If cited, you are welcome to add that info to this article. black ngold29 17:29, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Legit review of the album, anywhere to fit it in?

http://www.metalhammer.co.uk/news/dream-theater-album-review-black-clouds-and-silver-linings-track-by-track/

Richard Wilson, author of their official book 'Lifting Shadows off a Dream'. Surely that's a legit source. Worth putting it in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.45.143.146 (talk) 15:15, 25 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that looks pretty good (both the source and the article itself). I will add a summary of it as soon as I can, but if somebody else wants to go for it please do! black ngold29 15:20, 25 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, so we know, thanks to metalhammer, that the songs are, in this order: over 16 minutes, about 8:30, just over five, over twelve, unknown, and over nineteen minutes. Why are we still in doubt that the personal DT blog's 16:10, 8:35, 5:25, 12:49, 13:07, and 19:16 are the right track lengths? It's too much of a coincidence for an "unreliable source" to be that accurate before the public even knew so much as the length of A Rite of Passage. 64.91.201.195 (talk) 02:21, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Deluxe Edition

According to Roadrunner, there's going to be a very limited run of the album with a special packaging, the complete 3 CD special edition, a DVD which allows fans to remix the album, a mouse mat, a ticket (100 of which will win a meet and greet with the band), a lithograph of the album art, and the vinyl edition.

http://roadrunnerrecords.co.uk/release/Black+Clouds+%26+Silver+Linings

If someone could update the page with this in the correct format, that would be great. 142.177.58.68 (talk) 22:35, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 114: / Line 114: @@
 ::Well, so we know, thanks to metalhammer, that the songs are, in this order: over 16 minutes, about 8:30, just over five, over twelve, unknown, and over nineteen minutes. Why are we still in doubt that the personal DT blog's 16:10, 8:35, 5:25, 12:49, 13:07, and 19:16 are the right track lengths? It's too much of a coincidence for an "unreliable source" to be that accurate before the public even knew so much as the length of A Rite of Passage. [[Special:Contributions/64.91.201.195|64.91.201.195]] ([[User talk:64.91.201.195|talk]]) 02:21, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
+==Deluxe Edition==
+According to Roadrunner, there's going to be a very limited run of the album with a special packaging, the complete 3 CD special  edition, a DVD which allows fans to remix the album, a mouse mat, a ticket (100 of which will win a meet and greet with the band), a lithograph of the album art, and the vinyl edition.
+http://roadrunnerrecords.co.uk/release/Black+Clouds+%26+Silver+Linings
+If someone could update the page with this in the correct format, that would be great. [[Special:Contributions/142.177.58.68|142.177.58.68]] ([[User talk:142.177.58.68|talk]]) 22:35, 27 April 2009 (UTC)