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Ann Arbor, Michigan

Review commentary

Featured article candidates/Ann Arbor, Michigan

Notified: TonyTheTiger, Pentawing, Taxman, Gsgeorge, Avenue, Jay32183, WikiProject Cities, and WikiProject Michigan.

This is a 2005 FA that underwent FAR in 2007. Since then, it's undergone the classic Wikipedia rot. Unsupported information has been added, links have gone dead, and the MOS has progressed.

I've added a scattering of citation needed tags where appropriate.
- Still working on it (primarily in the History and Culture sections). Pentawing^Talk 04:17, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - done - Hopefully. Pentawing^Talk 01:41, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There are several dead links in the article.
- Redlinks or dead external links? Pentawing^Talk 04:17, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - I'm sorry ... dead external links. Checklinks shows citations 19, 38, and the two last links in the additional sources list to be dead. JKBrooks85 (talk) 04:35, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    - done - Though I should note that the last dead external link pertaining to Urbanoasis.org is still active (I managed to open the file in another browser window). Hence, in the meantime, I have commented that external link out. Pentawing^Talk 02:59, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There are external links in the main body of the article.
- done - Though if there are any I missed, please point them out. Pentawing^Talk 04:17, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The prose is rough in places, but it isn't my main concern.
- I have gone through as much of the prose as I can, though I intend to look at it further. Pentawing^Talk 04:17, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - done - I think I have gone through the entire article. Pentawing^Talk 01:41, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The article needs to be updated in spots. Forex, there's an "As of December 2006".
- done - Seems to be corrected, though someone else might want to look through the article to make sure. Pentawing^Talk 04:17, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

With the number of University of Michigan alumni and students on Wikipedia, I'm sure there's enough interest to save this article ... it just has to manifest itself. JKBrooks85 (talk) 23:42, 9 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Does it make sense to nominate it during the summer, while the students are away? Can I please suggest withdrawing the nomination and renominating it a month from now? Classes begin September 8. Eubulides (talk) 06:57, 10 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I imagine that there's more free time in the summer, when classes aren't going on. You don't have to be on campus to access Wikipedia. :) In any event, I think there's enough alumni and local users that the timing shouldn't matter. JKBrooks85 (talk) 12:02, 10 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I concur with JKBrooks85's thinking; as a student, I know the general rule is that the start of school is much worse a time to begin a major Wikipedia project, compared to during the summer. Otumba (talk) 22:08, 10 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Actually the Wikimedia traffic data always shows a major lull during Northern Hemishphere summers and it picks back up about the time school starts again. Summer is a major detraction from a lot of editing—either from students not being at school or vacations. Also, who studies much when school first starts? The weather is nice and there's too much else to do. :) I did go add a couple citations and I'll try to get some more. Overall though the article isn't in terrible shape, it could do with someone going through and detailing any more concerns besides what have been tagged as being needed already. Those can be searched for easily. - Taxman ^Talk 15:06, 13 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have gone through the article and corrected as many problems as I can for one night. However, I intend to look over the article again to make sure every issue has been dealt with. Pentawing^Talk 04:17, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that I have gone through the entire article and have dealt with the issues raised. Though if issues still exists, can someone please point them out exactly? Pentawing^Talk 01:55, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Done; thanks. ~~Images need alt text as per WP:ALT.~~ Please see the "alt text" entry in the toolbox at the upper right of this review page. Eubulides (talk) 06:57, 10 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Though if there are any that I missed, please note that. Pentawing^Talk 04:17, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thanks, but I'm afraid that alt text is still missing for File:Annarborskyline.jpg and for File:Washtenaw County Michigan Incorporated and Unincorporated areas Ann Arbor Highlighted.svg; please see the "alt text" button in the toolbox at the upper right of this review page. More important, the alt text that was added simply duplicates information that's in the caption, which is not what alt text is for. Please see WP:ALT #What not to specify and WP:ALT #Difference from captions, and look at the examples in WP:ALT #Flawed and better examples. Eubulides (talk) 04:42, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    - I went through the alt texts again and tried to follow the guidelines, though I would appreciate it if someone else can improve on the texts if they are found to be inadequate. However, I can't be able to get the alt texts to work for the images in the settlement infobox, though there are entries for alt text that for some reason are not working. Pentawing^Talk 01:41, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      - That's funny - now the alt texts for the images in the settlement infobox are working. Pentawing^Talk 03:00, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        If you're using the Altviewer, it's often delayed for reasons beyond my control or understanding. Alt text is now present for all images, but there are still two images where the alt text repeating the caption, namely "View toward the southeast of Ann Arbor near Liberty and State Streets ..." and "Ann Arbor skyline as seen from Michigan Stadium". Also, several of the proper names should be removed from the alt text, as they cannot be verified by a non-expert who is looking only at the image (as required by WP:ALT). These proper names include "Ann Arbor", "Michigan Stadium", and "Herman Hesse". The maps' alt text don't convey the useful information that the maps' visual appearance does, namely, just where is Ann Arbor? Other than that it looks good. Eubulides (talk) 13:08, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        Thanks, I see the above changes were done. Eubulides (talk) 17:17, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
File:AnnArborMural.jpg: caption confusing: the mural may depict the five people mentioned when seen in its entirety but this detail just shows one person (either Allen or Hesse, I can't make out which). DrKiernan (talk) 12:14, 11 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- done - The caption has been corrected. Pentawing^Talk 04:17, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Changes look pretty good, Pentawing. I'm going to do a more detailed combing of the article, so let me know if you think I'm going down the wrong track with some of these changes. JKBrooks85 (talk) 10:23, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've dropped a few more citation needed tags in there, and citations No. 23 and 24 don't appear to cover everything in the paragraph preceding it. JKBrooks85 (talk) 07:27, 29 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I've managed to add in the citations where needed. Pentawing^Talk 04:59, 30 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Newspapers in citations should be italicized. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:04, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. Pentawing^Talk 04:53, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There is a dab that needs fixing (see the toolbox), and I wonder if this article doesn't need a check for reliability of sources before it's kept. Have images been reviewed for compliance? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:05, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- DAB has been corrected. If you meant licensing, there are no problems with the images (several of which I had taken myself some time ago). As for the references, I have checked them and do not see a validity issue at this time. Pentawing^Talk 04:53, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The Ave Maria part in the education section reads oddly and feels like it was slowly edited with new information over time. Plus I believe it is now gone. Hobit (talk) 03:35, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- The passage has been edited to reflect the fact that the law school was founded in Ann Arbor but moved out, with the buildings taken over by the Cooley Law School. Pentawing^Talk 04:53, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How's this going? YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 03:16, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have addressed the issues that have been brought up, and so far it appears that no one has brought up any other problems. If no one brings up any further problems, I believe that this FAR should be closed. Pentawing^Talk 04:33, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments -
What makes the following reliable sources?
Current ref 57 is lacking a publisher

lat=42.27083&lon=-83.72639&datum=nad27&zoom=8

Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:15, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I pinged Pentawing for a look at this last comment. Marskell (talk) 15:58, 26 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I looked at several of the sources, and hopefully will take care of them fully in the article soon. Pentawing^Talk 05:06, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have replaced several of the above citations. However, several of the non-replaced citations (e.g. Topoquest and Airnav) use data that are explicitly labeled as being from a reputable source (US Geological Survey and the FAA respectively). City-data has a publisher, which is now listed. The vt100.net site has a listed author (which is listed in the citation listings), and Emporis (from what I have read) utilizes a rigorous process in ensuring accurate information. Pentawing^Talk 04:06, 2 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fixes still needed:

The article mixes unspaced WP:EMDASHes, spaced emdashes, and spaced WP:ENDASHes; per WP:DASH, pls pick one and be consistent (spaced emdashes are not used on Wiki).
- I chose to use unspaced WP:EMDASHes. Pentawing^Talk 04:56, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I mentioned over two months ago a problem with WP:ITALICS on journals, newspapers, periodicals; it's still not fixed, example: US News and World Reports.
- Fixed. Pentawing^Talk 04:56, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Can't Further reading be alphabetical?
- Fixed, by author's names. Pentawing^Talk 04:56, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Somewhere in MOS, we're not supposed to use # except in charts, should be No., please review throughout ... took the #14 slot ...
- Fixed. Pentawing^Talk 04:56, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If these and sourcing concerns are cleared up, not in bad shape. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:57, 8 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Has there been an image review? If not, one of the image reviewers should be pinged to have a look, since this appears to be close to a keep. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:21, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

- I believe the images have been looked out some time ago already during the review (see above). Pentawing^Talk 04:56, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Status? No edits since November 14; is anyone still working on this article? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:34, 20 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- The problems that have been pointed out are hopefully corrected. Pentawing^Talk 04:56, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - See these sample edits; last access dates and publishers are needed for all web references. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:17, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What is with teh undue weight in history. A big chunk on 1960-70 and a blackout on the preceding century YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (Invincibles Featured topic drive:one left) 04:21, 25 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

FARC commentary

Suggested FA criteria concern are citations, undue weight. Also note the recent change to WP:WIAFA (1c) requiring "high-quality" sources. FAQ? YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (Invincibles Featured topic drive:one left) 23:21, 1 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delist, some unsourced bits. WP:LEAD is too short. Cirt (talk) 23:27, 1 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This kind of delist, the minute an article moves to FARC and when editors have been working on the article, concern me. What "unsourced bits"? LEAD too short is a not a good enough reason to delist. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:30, 1 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 92: / Line 92: @@
 :''Suggested FA criteria concern are citations, undue weight. Also note the recent change to [[WP:WIAFA]] (1c) requiring "high-quality" sources. [[User:YellowMonkey/FAR|FAQ?]] '''[[User:YellowMonkey|<font color="GoldenRod">YellowMonkey</font>]]'''  (''[[User_talk:YellowMonkey|<font color="#FA8605">bananabucket]]''</font>) ([[User:YellowMonkey/Invincibles|Invincibles Featured topic drive:one left)]] 23:21, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 *'''Delist''', some unsourced bits. [[WP:LEAD]] is too short. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 23:27, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
+:* This kind of delist, the minute an article moves to FARC and when editors have been working on the article, concern me. What "unsourced bits"?  LEAD too short is a not a good enough reason to delist.  [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy<font color="green">Georgia</font>]] ([[User talk:SandyGeorgia|Talk]]) 23:30, 1 December 2009 (UTC)