Talk:Seattle

nirvana

nirvana is not from seattle

  Technically true, Nirvana formed in Aberdeen, Washington. However they are best known (made famous) through Seattle, so that part of the section stays.

References

Guys, Reference no 175 is throwing off the layout of the entire page. Would someone please put it into a TinyURL. Otherwise the page looks very unprofessional. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.79.71.234 (talk) 03:21, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Population

As of April 1, 2009 the population is 602,000 according to the Office of Financial Management (http://www.ofm.wa.gov/pop/april1/finalpop2009.pdf). So please stop reverting it to 589,541 and 598,541, when your not even verifying a source. Tboy206 (talk) 17:50, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Religion section

I removed the religion section because I couldn't find any reliable sources to support the claim that Seattle is the most "unchurched" city in the country. I found plenty of unreliable sources that referenced this, but completely struck out with the reliable ones. I'm also not sure if an entire section is needed just for religion? Perhaps a paragraph about religion could be included in the Demographics section of the article? Something about the percentages of each religion and what not and maybe reference to Mars Hill could be included. Anyways, here's the content of the section I removed:

Washington has been named the most "unchurched" state in America, while Seattle has been named the most "unchurched" city in the country, having more irreligious people than any other major city in the US. Regardless, Mars Hill Church is one of the largest churches in America, and there appears to be a relatively large diversity in religion.

If anyone finds a reference to the unchurched comment, I don't have a problem with it being added back in. --Bobblehead ^(rants) 16:56, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

See also previous section. "irreligious people" was a recent (and I think ill-conceived) substitution for "agnostics and atheists". I don't have a citation offhand for Seattle as such, but this appears to cite for Washington being the most unchurched state. - Jmabel | Talk 18:11, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Here's another reasonably reliable citation (for the region, not the city): HistoryLink Essay on Mark Matthews. - Jmabel | Talk 05:58, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Recent ref messup

Someone has inserted <ref>{{web | url=http://zip4.usps.com/zip4/citytown.jsp |publisher=USPS | title=Zip Code Lookup | accessdate=2008-12-11}}</ref> as a citation for Zip Codes. I'm not sure what they meant to do, but all this does is insert a deletion notice into the Notes section. - Jmabel | Talk 18:08, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

That was me screwing up. Andrew c fixed the problem though. Sorry about that. --Bobblehead ^(rants) 18:21, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Recentism?

Why is the 2001 quake listed as a major event in the history section, but the larger 1872 and 1949 quakes are not? I can see not counting 1872 (there wasn't much of a city there at the time) but as far as I can tell the '49 quake had far larger consequences than the 2001 quake. - Jmabel | Talk 05:46, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Some unsourced sections pulled from the page, for us to source

Part of the Featured article review cleanup:[1]

Spoken word and poetry are staples of Seattle arts, paralleling the explosion of the independent music scene during the late 1980s and early 1990s. Seattle's performance poetry blossomed with the importation of the poetry slam from Chicago (its origin) by Paul Granert. This and the proliferation of weekly readings, open mics, and poetry-friendly club venues like the Weathered Wall, the OK Hotel, and the Ditto Tavern (all now defunct), allowed spoken-word/performance poetry to take off.[2]

Seattle began an economic recovery as a major point of departure during World War II for troops heading to the North Pacific, and Boeing manufactured many of the war's bombers.[3]

It looks like that was the only egregious stuff that needs sourcing. GoneAwayNowAndRetired (C)(T) 17:07, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

The latter is clearly true and shouldn't be hard to cite for. The first is mostly on the mark, though the fact that all of these venues have folded speaks volumes about this scene having peaked a decade or so ago. We could probably cite for everything there (except a claim that the scene remains a staple), but it would probably take half a dozen different sources. - Jmabel | Talk 18:52, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Race

I think perhaps there should be a bit more about racial/ethnic minorities and race relations in the article.

We do mention the anti-Chinese riots in the 1880s; we don't mention anything about what happened to the Japanese (and Japanese-Americans) in the WWII era. Also, we don't mention the importance of trade with Asia in the city's economic history, nor do we mention what for the political emergence of the Asian community in past 40 or 50 years (especially such Chinese Americans as Wing Luke, Ruby Chow, Cheryl Chow, Gary Locke, and Charlie Chong).

Similarly, we don't mention Seattle had one of the stronger chapters of the Black Panthers, nor that it was a pioneer in voluntarily desegragating its schools but has had ongoing controversy over the means of doing so, nor the emergence of quite a number of prominent black politicians (most notably Ron Sims, Norm Rice, and Larry Gossett). Going back further in history: Seattle had an interestingly influential, if small, black presence in the late 19th and early 20th century, including William Grose, one of the most prominent pre-Fire hotel men, and Horace Cayton, quite a notable journalist.

On another ethnic front, no mention here of Seattle as a center of "urban Indian" culture, including the careers of Bernie Whitebear and his siblings and the institutions that they created.

Broadly on this front: the fight over open housing in Seattle is well enough documented that I used it as a case study in the fair housing article.

I'm not going to head here unilaterally in what is, after all, already a featured article, but as has been remarked "featured doesn't mean finished." I'd be interested in hearing from others. - Jmabel | Talk 00:37, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Can't disagree with you here. My only concern is that if we start adding too much detail in this article, it won't comply with WP:SS any longer. The sub-articles for this article are more appropriate for indepth exploration of race and race relations within Seattle. --Bobblehead ^(rants) 21:04, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

How about a mention that Seattle's proportion of non-Hispanic whites more closely reflects the American national average than most other American cities of similar size or larger (hence reflecting less white flight)? Just a thought. I understand that mentioning white flight may be controversial and maybe even presumptuous. The suggestion is open to scrutiny. ~~Brandon1978~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brandon1978 (talk • contribs) 11:19, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Weather Graph incorrect

The weather graph is incorrect, it needs to be updated to reflect the actualy record highs and lows for Seattle-Tacoma International airport, which records the data for Seattle. Otherwise, many of the average high/lows and all records are very different as you can be measuring from a multitude of places in and around Seattle.--76.22.21.99 (talk) 19:56, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Sea-Tac Airport is the "official" measuring station for Seattle, so that's what is used. If you have another source that you'd like to use, you're welcome to provide it and we'll considering using it. --Bobblehead ^(rants) 21:00, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

I dont think that the data in that graph is from Sea-Tac's records, because in 1950, Seattle's lowest temperature was 0F in Jan. at Seatac. The graph indicates like 11 or 13F.--76.22.21.99 (talk) 22:43, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

This appears to have been fixed by Jerrod1.[4] Walter Siegmund (talk) 00:29, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes it does. I was going to comment yesterday but forgot.--76.22.21.99 (talk) 18:56, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

I just noticed, but it appears that the graph has been changed again. I feel since all the weather records mentioned in the article pertain to the Seattle-Tacoma International airport, the graphs data should be using the weather averages and records from there. --98.225.48.221 (talk) 16:38, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Citation tags for tribal names

As this came up on the current Featured Article Review, I pulled this here for us to check over. Thoughts? See here for more. GoneAwayNowAndRetired (C)(T) 02:18, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

The tribe seems to agree with Dkh<shttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Seattle&action=edit&section=7up>w’Duw’Absh[5] Problem being, I'm not sure I would count the source as a WP:RS as it is a WP:SPS. The tribe spells Xachua'Bsh as hah-choo-AHBSH but that seems to be more of a phonetic spelling than the "correct" spelling.[6]--Bobblehead ^(rants) 02:26, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Sewardpark.org seems to agree with Xachua'Bsh.[7] --Bobblehead ^(rants) 02:35, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Duwamish (tribe)#More about names seems fairly well sourced and points out that the modern Duwamish tribe is an amalgamation of several groups that once went by different names. There were at least the two groups: Dkh^w'Duw'Absh, the People of the Inside, and Xacuabš or Xachua'bsh, People of a Large Lake. I have the book "Native Seattle" by Coll Thrush. He uses a slightly different system of putting Whulshootseed names into a "practical alphabet". And I don't think he gives the names of the peoples per se. But he does give the Whulshootseed name for Lake Washington, XacH7oo, and notes that this word "gave its name to the Hachooabsh, or Lake Indians, a branch of the Duwamish proper..." He also gives the name for "Inside Place", dxWduW, noting "this word is the base of the term 'Duwamish'..." and that the people of the lower Duwamish River and its original delta mudflat area made up the other main branch of the Duwamish people. I suspect exact pronunciations differed from group to group as well as over time. For what it is worth there is an interesting page at HistoryLink, here, on the pronunciation of various people and peoples. Unfortunately they seem to have opted not to write out any of the Lushootseed. There is an audio file on the pronunciation of Chief Seattle's name. Unfortuantely again, the audio quality is not great, making it hard for me to tell the subtle differences being pointed out. Still there is information about the "glottalized barred lambda", which is claimed to be in the proper pronunciation. Anyway, I'm not quite sure what this thread is addressing exactly, but perhaps these links will be useful. Pfly (talk) 03:35, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

• The section Pfly alludes to has been partly rewritten (for clarity) and is now simply called Duwamish (tribe)#Names. - Jmabel | Talk 05:05, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Seattle an isthmus?

I reverted this edit because I'm a nob and got isthmus and peninsula confused (it's early, I haven't had my caffeine yet). While the land Seattle is on does technically qualify as an isthmus (narrow strip of land connecting two bigger land masses), I've never actually heard/seen it being called an isthmus. Is there a reliable source out there that calls it an isthmus? --Bobblehead ^(rants) 16:48, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Nevermind. Found a USGS source and updated the article. :) --Bobblehead ^(rants) 16:59, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I think this is common knowledge. If anybody can point to a map and say two big clumps of land (north and south Seattle) are connected by a narrower clump of land (Downtown, Capitol Hill, Mount Baker), then it's not implausible to assume that it's located on an isthmus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brandon1978 (talk • contribs) 11:24, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Seattle does not sit on a true isthmus. A true isthmus connects two separate land masses. Sherwelthlangley (talk) 06:37, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Improving Seattle page

I am thinking about adding a link on the Seattle page to connect to the "Puyallup Fair" page. Xwiki22 (talk) 00:48, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

What for? Puyallup is a fair distance from Seattle.--Bobblehead ^(rants) 02:22, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

HAD pro basketball. How is this still relevant?

This information was added by an anonymous user earlier today. I respect Sarek's judgement too much to engage in an edit war over this, but I'd like to see some discussion. Seattle had NBA and WNBA teams. We no longer do. How is mention of them still relevant? TechBear (talk) 13:42, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Because one of them played in Seattle for 40+ years? And we still have WNBA in the Seattle Storm; they never left. GoneAwayNowAndRetired (C)(T) 14:29, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

The addition made by the anonymous user, which I deleted and which Sarek reinserted, says that Seattle HAD a WNBA team. Anyway, looking over the whole section, I see that both teams are already mentioned and that the Sonics' departure is already noted, making the added paragraph redundant. I will redelete. TechBear (talk) 14:35, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

seattle is the (seattles best) coffie capitle —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.168.211.159 (talk) 22:38, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Mayor's Office is Nonpartisan

In the right sidebar it says Greg Nickels (the current mayor) is a Democrat; while technically true, the position of mayor is nonpartisan and he was not elected as a Democrat, so this is slightly misleading and might be better explained or omitted or replaced by "nonpartisan" here. 98.232.92.243 (talk) 00:31, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Gov't and politics

I question the bias of this section, it seems to portray the politics of the region in a negative light "leftest" primaraly being a negative term and does not take into account the large Green and Reform party presences, who voted Democrate in order to beat the Republican Party in the presidential election. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Severbeck (talk • contribs)

You seem to have fixed the "leftist" issue, so thanks for that. Other than that... If you can find a source for your Green and Reform assertions, then it can be included either here, or on the sub-article Government and politics of Seattle. --Bobblehead ^(rants) 17:51, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Images in article

We have (depending on what you count) somewhere between 8 & 10 pictures in this article that are basically skylines. Might we sacrifice a few of these to add a few other images of some neighborhoods, buildings, parks, etc.? - Jmabel | Talk 05:32, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Let me note that some of the skyline photos are outdated, particularly the ones from West Seattle. Not a major difference, but the old ones don't contain the WaMu Center (now Chase Center). On the note of a more diverse set of photos, I think Gov. & Politics could use a picture of city hall. Under Transportation, I think a picture of the King Street/Amtrak/Sounder station could be one good candidate. The Neighborhoods section could use a photo besides the skyline, maybe one of Magnolia or something. Sherwelthlangley (talk) 06:43, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

There are tons of photos on Commons, if someone wants to choose different ones. I hesitate to do it, because so many of the possible photos are ones I took. - Jmabel | Talk 06:12, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Weather Graph Again

Since this is such a highly rated article, the records should all be brought from the same place. Considering that the article mentions records from Seattle-Tacoma International Airport, it is best that we use the records from there (also in light of todays incredible 103 degrees, which has now found its way onto the chart, despite the data coming from somewhere else) --76.121.4.143 (talk) 02:40, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I have changed to read the official records now. --76.121.4.143 (talk) 16:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

of which 7.5% were non-Hispanic *

Every sentence seem to end with the above phrase. Is it really necessary? I initially though of deleting it, but then thought it would be better asking the purpose. Seriously, is it worth qualifying every statement with "of which put a number here % were non-Hispanic". Lets pull it out unless its a Seattle lingo

As of the 2005-2007 American Community Survey conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau, White Americans made up 70.5% of Seattle's population; of which 67.9% were non-Hispanic whites. Blacks or African Americans made up 7.8% of Seattle's population; of which 7.5% were non-Hispanic blacks. American Indians made up 0.9% of the city's population; of which 0.6% were non-Hispanic. Asian Americans made up 13.5% of the city's population; of which 13.4% were non-Hispanic. Pacific Islander Americans made up 0.4% of the city's population. Individuals from some other race made up 2.8% of the city's population; of which 0.2% were non-Hispanic. Individuals from two or more races made up 4.2% of the city's population; of which 3.7% were non-Hispanic. In addition, Hispanics and Latinos made up 6.2% of Seattle's population.[175][176]

i oppose the omision of not saying how many of the whites are not of hispanic origon thats a important thing.we must say that line people want to know how many hispanics are in there cities.in the future non hispanic white population will not be the majority of the US. 99.164.107.144 (talk) 02:44, 20 November 2009 (UTC) necropolis20

Population

The population numbers are inconsistent since they are for different dates and have different sources. 66.224.233.253 (talk) has edited based on State of Washington numbers.[8] Wikilinked Table of United States Metropolitan Statistical Areas (in the infobox) is consistent with the other cited source, i.e., 3,344,813.[9] I think we should use the census.gov numbers throughout since we link to tables based on those data. Those data are timely enough for our purposes here and are a consistent source for all US cities. Walter Siegmund (talk) 04:40, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Neighborhood map needs to be included

there needs to be one of thos maps that shows neighborhoods like there is for Other cities like Akron ohio.

.21321021654321320.0251684650 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.124.153.98 (talk) 16:59, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the edit this page link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). Walter Siegmund (talk) 05:23, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

The tricky thing on this is that few Seattle neighborhoods have official boundaries. - Jmabel | Talk 06:09, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

The map at right, which ShadowDragon and I did, might be the closest thing we've got; it's map of prominent places, though, rather than neighborhoods. I could try doing a neighborhoods map. - Jmabel | Talk 06:15, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

The Seattle City Clerk's Neighborhood Map Atlas is public domain (see Commons:Template:PD-Seattle-Neighborhood-Atlas), but doesn't seem to have any one map that would serve this purpose. - Jmabel | Talk 06:19, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

This map is generally considered the best available map of Seattle's neigborhoods: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bigstickinc.com/images/largeview_seattle.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bigstickinc.com/seattle_map_large.html&usg=__H82PNIfz8Z4eEtNjdQgSdYCA9nk=&h=781&w=520&sz=217&hl=en&start=1&sig2=8LnftukQkDfl0cMeU6FRzQ&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=wqGk3vuwGJSEWM:&tbnh=143&tbnw=95&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dseattle%2Bneighborhood%2Bmap%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4GGLL_enUS317US317%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1&ei=EjMbS62nGZDStQPo08j8BA (sorry for the huge link). --76.121.4.143 (talk) 04:30, 6 December 2009 (UTC)