Talk:Phoenix Lights

Neutrality

I took the box for npov off, since this entry here is the first on the talk page. If there is a neutrality issue, please put the box back up, but also make an entry on the talk page to say what the issue is. Jmlk17 20:49, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

There was no NPOV dispute at all. It was placed by a Anon User. Martial Law 23:18, 10 March 2006 (UTC) :)

Alright...thanks Jmlk17 00:57, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

As of March 2007
Actually I have some problems with the neutrality of this article as well. The writing style leans heavily in support of USAF explanations. Regardless of what the truth may be, the article should only present verifiable info, and not draw conclusion on it's own. But I'm also saying that verifiable info includes what witnesses have said, and what the USAF has said. Then if there is verifiable info about what decisions were made about it, and who made them, great. Include that. Statements like and it was easily seen that the lights vanished in line with the outline of the mountain are not appropriate. Also but the USAF identified them is kind of weasily. I'm putting up an NPOV tag myself. x 22:38, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The article seems to be written using UFO proponent websites as sources. I doubt they meet WP:VER. Articles should rely on reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. Sources should be appropriate to the claims made: exceptional claims require stronger sources There is plenty written by mainstream sources on the Phoenix Lights. Why not use those as sources instead? --- LuckyLouie 01:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I've tried to add more support to other explanations, but it still probably comes up short.Bubbles4sale 06:44, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

The NPOV tag was removed with no clear explanation as to why, and the isses I've brought up here have not been addressed. In terms of sources, that's not specifically a NPOV issue; the issue is how the information is presented. Too much of it is more an inline debate than an objective encyclopedic article. I've placed the tag back. x 13:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

The article contains all pro's and con's, detailed explanations of what many people claim to have seen and what officials later explained. It is well balanced and neutral at the end, well written too and cites many sources. So the only conclusion is to remove all tags! Thank you. Please do so if there are no further objections. --89.247.30.41 01:26, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Um, first paragraph... why is Fox news criticized for taking the stance that the US Goverment, and therefore every other news agency, took? I disagree with the flare story as well, but dont act like Fox is the one perpatrating it. I know you guys at wiki really hate on fox/conservatism, but this is just ridiculous 136.160.191.18 (talk) 20:09, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

And the thing thats most ridiculous about accusing fox news for saying it was flares is that later in the same article there is a huge paragraph explaining the likelyhood of it being flares!!!! As i said, you guys notoriously favor liberalism here, but this is just on a whole new level. I mean what are u guys taking donations for, to donate them back to the obama admin? Come on guys, have just a little integrity. 136.160.191.18 (talk) 20:34, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Ongoing Activity

There is still ongoing activity going on in Phoenix. Go to the external links, such as the UFO Casebook link, and the Jeff Rense link. Martial Law 23:20, 10 March 2006 (UTC) :)

Due to the ongoing activity, should the article be renamed The Phoenix UFO Incident ? Martial Law 21:02, 12 March 2006 (UTC) :)

The normal use of the phrase "The Phoenix Lights" refers to the particular phenomenon reported March 13 1997. I think there should be a specific article for that event, that can then link to article(s) about subsequent events.x 16:45, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Everyone needs to stop referring to these events as "lights." It reduces the size of the object(s). The "lights" that everyone is referring to are the visible aspects of energy; we don't know what kind of energy, but clearly something that is in the visual light spectrum. This energy is being emitted from something that is an "object." As the object is in the sky and is unidentified, it is an unidentified flying object, which is what UFOs are. Therefore, this entire incident should be referred to as the "Massive UFO Incident" of Arizona (MUI) because there are certainly going to be more Massive UFO sightings in the future. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.124.151.5 (talk • contribs)

We should not be supposing UFO sightings in the future which can not be proven so it is not a legitimate reason for calling it Massive UFO incident anyway.

We don't know exactly how large the object really is yet or whether these were multiple objects so the term massive would be inappropriate. We know there were lights. Nothing else has been proven. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.62.209.10 (talk) 18:49, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

The "disputed" tag

I inserted the "disputed" tag on this article because it is so horrendously unencyclopedic. Examples? Let's look just at the second paragraph alone, which is as follows.

''At about 18:55 PST, (19:55 MST), a man reported seeing a V-shaped object above Henderson, Nevada. He said it was about the "size of a (Boeing) 747" [1], sounded like "rushing wind" [2], and had six lights on its leading edge. The lights reportedly traversed northwest to the southeast".

• • This man is significant to this amazing story, but he is unidentified. Why isn't he named? Why isn't there a link to a reputable site that names him?
  • A specific time is given for this man reporting something. Who did he make this report to at that specific time?
  • He said (in that specific report) it was about the size of a 747? Where is there a copy of that report that can corroborate that description?
  • He said it sounded like "rushing wind" and a link, supposedly in support of that claim, was given to an external site. But guess what! That specific site we are taken to says the following:
    • "All witnesses agreed on several common factors ..... it moved silently......they distinctly had 'strained their ears' trying to detect a sound emanating from the object. It was perfectly silent."
  • All witnesses said it was silent. That's on the link which is supposed to corroborate a claim that it sounded like rushing wind.
  • Did it traverse "northwest to the southeast", or from the northwest to the southeast?

The whole article is dodgy, and these anomalies I list here result from only one paragraph. I would attempt a fix, but knowing how quickly it would be reverted I won't bother. So I've attached the tag instead. Moriori 02:20, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

The man that said it generated a sound which he equated to that of “rushing wind.” was the first person to see the lights. The next witness, the one in Paulden AZ, was the one who said it was silent. ONEder Boy 04:12, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Somehow you missed the point. The article says 'sounded like "rushing wind" [2],' . Obviously, that [2] is intended to be a link to evidence supporting that quote. However, that link actually denies that quote, saying "All witnesses agreed on several common factors ..... it moved silently......they distinctly had 'strained their ears' trying to detect a sound emanating from the object. It was perfectly silent." OK? Moriori 04:44, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

I think I've figured out what you're saying and I attempted to make it better. I'd appreciate any help you could give in rewriting the article to make it better. ONEder Boy 22:02, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

The only way this can ever be made better is by excising all supposition and unverified and unverifiable claims, and giving a bit of balance. For instance, what would you say if I amended the reference to no sonic booms to read "Although that was more almost three times the speed of sound, no sonic booms were reported which indicates the lights had no physical properties"? (The actual quote is in light italics and my addition in bold italics). Moriori 23:25, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea. Actually, any help that you could offer would be great. I haven't had a whole lot of help in writing this article save for Martial Law and some other people copyediting. ONEder Boy 23:36, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

UFO pix

Go to UFO Casebook's homepage to see a TUBE shaped UFO. Martial Law 20:51, 14 March 2006 (UTC) :)

Since this is a videotape, there are language issues. This was shot on 3-13-06. Martial Law 20:52, 14 March 2006 (UTC) :)

The picture should be removed from the article and replaced with a genuine one - this picture is a recreation that was made for the cover of her book and bears little resemblance to the hundreds of actual photographs and videos, which show a long slanting line of lights.

Rename Article

Due to the still ongoing activities, see Re.:UFO Pix above, the article should be titled, The Phoenix UFO Incident to reflect this fact. The incident started in 1997, and, in spite of what others have stated, the incident is still ongoing, Jeff Rense is also getting pixes of UFOs photographed over Phoenix, Arizona. Martial Law 21:05, 14 March 2006 (UTC) :)

Investigation

I have personally investigated this incident while getting a $60,000 trailer fixed. The "flare explanation" is a true farce. Was also trying to locate one Peter Gersten, who was running CAUS at the time. I have caught a UFO on "film" as it was passing a auto dealership. That pix is now my Wall Paper, and seen one near Willcox, Arizona as well. I did not find "The UFO Lawyer" at all. One witness I had discussed this matter with stated that the(polite) expletive had flown over her house. Another stated that armed jets were seen chasing, yes, chasing UFOs, not dropping (polite) expletive flares, and that the govt. had better quit the expletive and tell the expletive truth. Only being honest, yet complying with Wikipedia:Profanity and WP:NOR. By the way, the UFO was one of those "classic lights". I have also seen on TV (Have Satellite TV) the farce that was perpetrated when two DPS officers had a BIG "Alien" in handcuffs and shackles placed on TV. Martial Law 06:54, 18 March 2006 (UTC) :) Bold text

Military Activity

There were alleged reports of air force planes being launched to intercept the object but actually provable reports that say the military was active that night. as well as the air force saying there were only a couple of calls to report the object, However on the contrary the police stations and millitary base were flooded with calls from people and this triangular craft was seen by thousands of people some air force pilots themselves that say "these were not flares" as well as pilots who say the same thing. Also one has to think, the air force would never release flares over civillian cities.

For more information on the investigation go here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiEPbTBm60I

I was in the Marine Corps stationed at Marine Corps Air Station, Yuma AZ at the time of this event. I saw it and didn't think too much of it at the time. I thought it was strange though. It is not unbelievable that it would have been flares because that whole area from around southern California all the way past the east side of Phoenix is a training area for the Air Force as well as Marine Pilots; however, based on the speed and the perfect formation over such a large area of land, I don't believe they were flares. I also don't believe in aliens so I wouldn't call it a UFO made by extraterrestrials either. It was definitely an Unidentified Flying Object of some sort though. (Derik) 72.135.6.78 23:50, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I think people are making large assumptions when they say the military would or would not do something that might endanger civilians or be seen by thousands of civilians.

Someone said something similar in the documentary "The Phoenix Lights". They said the military would never fly in formation like that over the state and then right over Phoenix. My thought was you seem to be trying to make the argument that the government is covering up something and then you say the government would never do something. It's an odd thing to say to me if the person believes in UFOs that are extra-terrestrial.

You might say they want to keep things secret but it's too big of an assumption to eliminate the possibility the military was doing an exercise. You need to keep your mind open for that possibility instead of shutting it down because you want it to be an extra-terrestrial UFO.

Stealth Blimp Theory

Should we not have a section of this page devoted to the theory that the Phoenix Lights were a secret military airship, as described in this article: http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/black_triangle_020805.html

PHOENIX LIGHTS RETURNED IN 07

another sighting of the phoenix lights has returned in the past week and close up footage was taken by residents and also fox skycam also captured the lights during a video

The new videos look much different. I wouldn't be so quick to group it with the '97 Phoenix Lights. The new ones can be explained as flairs. The sightings in '97 seem to be much different. For instance, they lasted longer. They were in a still line, not free falling on a parachute. They are much different.-Slipgrid 02:44, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Not exactly convincing. I agree with Slipgrid. Jmlk17 07:01, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

TELEVUE 32mm Plossl telescope is not a telescope.

The article says that the lights were observed by an amateur astronomer with a "TELEVUE 32mm Plossl telescope" however the Televue item described is an eyepiece and not a telescope. Picky maybe but lack of technical accuracy tends to undermine credibility. Maryyugo 23:42, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

03.21.08 Sighting of Phoenix Lights

Fox 10 News in Phoenix, Arizona just aired a report about someone who videotaped a sighting of the Phoenix Lights, 11 years, and 1 week after the original date of 03.18.97. I can't find reports anywhere. I am going to look it up and report back. Just wanted to put the word out there. Layalzebub (talk) 05:17, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Recent event?

Should this page be tagged as a current event?72.198.2.87 (talk) 21:09, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

The Lights In The Sky...

--71.75.138.2 (talk) 16:30, 25 April 2008 (UTC)--71.75.138.2 (talk) 16:30, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Flares?!

Please tell me why, because the article linked to the A-10 Warthog does not, why on earth a high-speed, close-support, military aircraft, one of the most advanced in our arsenal, would ever be dropping flares over civilian populations in a clearly discernable, slow-moving pattern? To cite this as a reference requires, to my mind, at least a comparable assertion in the article on the A-10 itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.140.187.73 (talk) 07:18, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

• From what I understand, it wasn't actually dropping them "over civilian populations". It dropped them way off in the desert (hence the disappearance of the lights being explained by their dropping over the mountain--they were behind it). The flares just happend to be visible to the city. Also, what does a "clearly discernable, slow-moving pattern" have to do with anything? It's not like that's unusual, or out-of-the-ordinary. Are they supposed to go out of their way to make it an undiscernable, fast-moving pattern? Shnakepup (talk) 16:13, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Well it would make sense that any kind of aircraft, especially something designed just for CAS would have flares and therefore have to train in using them. If an enemy were to lock onto to an A-10 or any other plane with some kind of missle, either shoulder fired or aircraft, the A-10 would drop flares to confuse the missle and mis-guide it. The heat given off by the flare would do this. However, our military is very very technologically advanced and i seriously doubt they would endanger thousands of lives potentially by dropping these over populated areas. Regardless of where they actually were dropped, they would take wind and other things into consideration so as to not harm the citizens. Personally i think this event was due to some sort of still secret military project —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.160.191.18 (talk) 20:40, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Truth about the phoenix lights

They were a hologram created with energy beams from 2 galaxies. A hologram that can not be seen past. They are GOD as earth knows it. GOD is trillions and trillions of brains thinking against evil. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Torchofaz (talk • contribs) 06:04, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

More Questions?

Collective thought is our future —Preceding unsigned comment added by Torchofaz (talk • contribs) 06:10, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

=optical phenomena

im thinking that using that phrase is a way to forced(akward) attempt at "neutrality". lets break this down. the lights were flying, they are yet to be identified, and we can assume that they are some sort of object. UFO will do. Using the phrase UFO does not imply little green men from mars. it implys that its flying and we dont know what it is. only the ignorant attach the little green man part. 74.192.29.148 (talk)im too lazy to sign in thanks —Preceding undated comment was added at 17:32, 12 November 2008 (UTC).

no flares!

All, don't you think after the Stephenville Texas sighting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_Blimp) we can safely conclude the "flares" explanation is bunk? This object was picked up on radar. Flares don't generate a radar return. Those entries should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hyper formance (talk • contribs) 19:58, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Those entries should stay. The plane dropping the flares generated the radar return.216.115.60.247 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:00, 11 March 2009 (UTC).

Im gonna assume this was the person who also implicated Fox News as the ones who originated this theory. Please take that off of this article, as this is probably one of the most important UFO sightings ever, and also one of the most well documented.

Bad or misused source

In the "explanations and skepticism," it is correctly noted that the second part of the 1998 event was explained by the USAF as being "slow falling, long burning flares."

It incorrectly suggest that this source concludes "[m]ore recent investigations have come to the same conclusion." It's true that more recent investigations, of more recent events, have come to the same conclusion, but that source does not suggest that the event in 1998 was flares. The source specifically talks about a January 9, 2007 event, that is not even reference in this article. The bad block is below:

The second event has been more thoroughly covered by the media, due in part to the military's backing of the explanation. The USAF explained the second event as slow falling, long burning flares dropped by an A-10 Warthog aircraft on a training exercise over Luke Air Force Base. An investigation by Luke AFB itself also came to this conclusion and declared the case solved.[23] More recent investigations have come to the same conclusion.[24]

24.209.227.186 (talk) 16:29, 24 September 2009 (UTC)