Talk:Tasmania

Current Discussion

Article Introduction

Is it just me, or do other users think that we should quote the ABS's September '08 population estimate of 498,900 [1] rather than some obscure December '08 population estimate from the premier's office [2]?--Just James ^T/C 10:01, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Put into perspective, the difference is less than 1% between the two figures. Noodle snacks (talk) 10:37, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I would rather use the official A Bureau of Stats data. the premier's approximation is 0.22% higher than the ABS figure, and is rounded. Just imagine the difference if 1,100 Melbournians landed in Hobart overnight! ShearBlue (talk) 07:48, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

History

It seems a bit barbaric to be referring to 'full-blood' and 'half-blood' Aboriginals as though the people with Aboriginal heritage born there and who live there today there today aren't really Aboriginal. Maybe the term should be 'original Tasmanians.' Mdw0 (talk) 06:11, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

There is a fair bit of discussion and confusion about who is an aborigine to the extent that the government legislated a definition as part of the Aboriginal Lands Act. The full-blooded terminology is quite well established a reasonably useful and easy distinction... Anyway substituting 'original Tasmanians' would basically be the same thing but just different terminology and less obvious in meaning... Barrylb (talk) 09:55, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

It was quite well established by the white people, many of whom would never think to say someone was one eighth-caste European. Just because its easy and useful in some respects doesn't make me feel any easier using it. How do the Tasmanian aboriginals feel about the term? Do they have aword that differentiates between original Tasmanians and the later Aboriginal people? There has to be something better - English is far too rich to allow such casual use of a term like 'full-blood.' Mdw0 (talk) 07:16, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I suspect aboriginals have adopted the term from whites, but I am no expert. This page use this term 'full blood': http://www.tasmanianaboriginal.com.au/liapootah/palawa.htm and the site claims to speak for the "Palawa Aboriginal People of Tasmania". This ABC radio interview transcript has a mainland aboriginal person describing himself as 'full blood': http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/lawrpt/lstories/lr311001.htm -- Barrylb (talk) 09:30, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Geography

Somebody once told me that Australia (the country) includes Tasmania, but Australia (the continent) does not. Anything to say about this?? 66.245.74.145 22:28, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

In the following, remember that continent is a fairly ill-defined concept. I could list any number of 'continents' that have tectonic faults running right though them. I would argue that 'Australia the island' is a null concept.

• Australia the country definitely includes Tasmania.
• Australia the continent includes Tasmania, as it is on the same continental shelf.
• Australia the island (if there is such a thing) does not include Tasmania. (or Bathurst Island, Kangaroo Island, Bribie Island, etc). -- Chuq 07:47, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I've just started a re-write of sections of the article. I've just finished the Climate and Geography section. Aaroncrick (talk) 03:07, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Ecology

Isn't there also a form of Quoll (spelt wrong?) indigenous to Tasmania?

That would be the Pademeleon, wouldn't it? Larsn 10:22, 9 April 2007 (UTC)larsn

No. A pademelon is a herbivorous macropod, while a quoll is a carnivorous dasyurid.--Meika 23:20, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

perhaps the "Tasmanian Devil"[3] of "Van Diemen's Land" Sarcophilus harrisii is indigenous to Tasmania, and similar in appearance and dietary habit to a Quoll [4], both are marsupial, 'Quoll' is spelled correctly, yet another English word that the almighty spellcheck is yet to learn :) ShearBlue (talk) 08:00, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

The Eastern Qoull is Endemic. Noodle snacks (talk) 11:09, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Previous Discussions

Controversial issues

• Forestry

FWIW, I agree with the reverts made by Jgritz today - the 131.* (Utas IP) user seemed to be a bit biased towards the Greens, especially if you look at the other articles he/she has created/edited today --Chuq 10:30, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Would love to see more on the forestry issue here though. It is an issue integral to Tas Politics over the last 30 years. It also looks like being a big national election issue in Australia this year. Even in the British papers of late - http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1174798,00.html - Jgritz 10:48, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)

• Same Sex relationships legislation
• Aboriginal and European conflict
• I just added a bit about logging and the Tasmania Together process. I think that because it is a controversial subject there should be infomation about it. Maybe there needs to be a section with controversial issues including forestry.

--AFA 00:40, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Top 12 Pop Idol

Do we really need links to Reality TV personalities? Haven't they had enough exposure already :) Also, as a Tassie boy living in the UK they have zero relevance to me and I doubt whether they have have any more historical context than the winner of the dance division B at the Devonport Eisteddfod. Top 12 in dodgy TV show doesn't belong on here IMHO. Jgritz 07:27, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I agree. It would be more notable if Tasmania didn't have any top-12 contestants in a reality TV show. - Mark 07:40, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Ah well, take it out if you like.. we just rarely get included so I thought it was good to list them when they *are*. Also note:

• Two of the three were winners of their shows. Regina was a big deal in the local media. Of the 50+ BB contestants this country has had, Regina has been the only Tasmanian (so we have a 100% win rate!). The premier even said it was all Tasmanian's duty to vote for Regina on Big Brother :/ The Mercury rated her winning BB notable enough for its History of Tasmania 1804-2004 specials this year.
• Amali probably isn't notable yet - although bear in mind that, as last year, there will probably be a single release by the top 12 Australian Idol finalists coming out soon. And (sadly) it will go pretty high in the ARIA charts.

-- Chuq 07:52, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

How about making a sub-heading called "Tasmanians In the News" or something. Then if they prove their worth they go into the "Prominent" list. BTW - this is a handy list for the future: http://messenger.imdb.com/BornWhere?Tasmania,%20Australia. I can still remember when Mark Stevens was the first Tasmanian on Young Talent Time...... Now THAT was news... Jgritz 11:24, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Social Context section from main article

(Pasted these here cause I don't know where they should go, but certainly not in the main article - Jgritz)

• Owing to it's isolation, Tasmania is the butt of jokes implying that incest is prevalent

You're from Tasmania? Give me six!

• Tasmania brews two excellent varieties of beer - Cascade and Boags. One is brewed up north in Launceston, the other in the south around Hobart, and there is some north-south rivalry involved. If you're in Hobart, be sure not to drink the wrong one ... although I'm not sure which one that is.

(It's Cascade in the south, Boags in the north. 20-or-so years ago there was a very strong brand loyalty with beer, but now there's so many different brands available it's not as noticable.)

• Owing to it's shape, "map of Tassie" is an Australian slang term for the female pubic region.

Politics and "over represented"

I reverted the phrase "is over-represented in the Australian Senate" back to "well represented" as it was changed some time ago. Tasmania has 12 senators, the same as every other state. If it had 13 and the others had twelve, then yes it would be over represented. If Tasmania had 7 House of Reps seats, that would be over represented (even though all other states have more than that).

Thinking about this, I don't even think "well represented" needs to be said, just "has 12 senators" would do. But I'll sit on that one for a while -- Chuq 07:09, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

The reason that Tasmania has 12 seats as do all other states (not territories) is so that each state is fairly and equally represented. If this wasn't the case Tasmania wouldn't really get a say in what happened in Australia at the federal level. Gloryify (talk) 06:09, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Unofficial Discover Tasmania site

I'm thinking that the unofficial Discover Tasmania site should be marked a bit differently or placed elsewhere - It's has a big green slant that isn't immediately obvious. Jgritz 11:48, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I don't think its appropriate to even have it at all, it is a political site, not a tourism site. -- Chuq 12:07, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If you look at it, you will find that it is more then just a political site. It has a number of links to various things in Tasmania. Besides which, if you just have the government sites, you are only having one side of the story for many of the things that are happening in Tasmania. As such I'll be putting it back, along with some other websites that I find around the place. --AFA 00:59, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

These links would be perfectly suitable if used inline and incontext. Check out Wikipedia:External_links. - "High content pages that contain neutral and accurate material not already in the article. Ideally this content should be integrated into the Wikipedia article at which point the link would remain as a reference." This article already reads like a bad tourism leaflet anyway, let alone becoming a link despository. Generaly I think we should have a politics of tasmania article, where we could thrash out manny of these issues that don't belong in the main article. Jgritz 09:06, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Tas Governement Site Resources

FYI - I just noticed that the all Tasmanian government sites seems to be covered by this copyright disclaimer. Apart from any use permitted by the Act, the State of Tasmania grants users of this site a licence (within the meaning of the Act) to download, print and otherwise reproduce the information for non-commercial purposes only.

Which means there is a vast resource available for use on wikipedia, especially the State Library pages. Hope this helps someone. Jgritz

Economy

• Anyone aware of any articles on this category for tassie? Long standing businesses in tassie in this area are not mentioned in this article, just wondering if anyone has either started/stubbed or come across entries for wilderness air/ the macquarie harbour gordon river boats / etc etc - maybe an entry is worth it within this art under 'economy' as the post 1980's silent achiever? vcxlor 03:53, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
• Maybe consider added this: Tasmania is the world's largest producer (about 50% world wide) of opium alkaloids for the pharmaceutical market and has the highest alkaloid yield of about 9.3 kg/ha [5]

-ChristopherMannMcKay 00:40, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Tasmania map

I have put together a possible map for this article as there are concerns about the old map's copyright status. By the way, these are well founded. I have determined that the old map (the lower of the two shown here) came from this webpage, where it says that it may not be reproduced without permission.

The new map is an OMC map, and according to the Generic Mapping Tools homepage, these can be considered free. Have a look at the upper map. It's quite comprehensive, a bit more so than the lower map except that it doesn't show roads (I could add those if needed). It's also quite big, being a composite of nine OMC maps. Kelisi 18:52, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Roads are definitely needed!!!!! SatuSuro 22:46, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

All right, then. I'll see what I can do. Kelisi 02:36, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

There we go: Roads. Kelisi 01:25, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

There seems to be no furious objection to this map, although there is also no enthusiastic endorsement. Nonetheless, I shall tentatively insert this map into the article and see what happens. Kelisi 21:09, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, what has happened is that a bot has come along and annihilated the old map so that you can't even see it anymore, even though the code is still there (or can someone else see it?). So, we've had our minds made up for us. Kelisi 18:29, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Climate

• The following needs a proper reference. I moved it here since it has remained unreferenced for a while. -- Barrylb 09:52, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

"Tasmania is scientifically recognized as having the purest air in the world, with the CSIRO establishing and operating the World Meteorological Organization Baseline Air Monitoring Station located at Cape Grim in the far north west tip of the island. When the air monitored at the Cape Grim station originates from the open Southern Ocean region, measurements of many of the atmospheric pollutants are among the lowest values ever recorded. The station is funded and managed by the Bureau of Meteorology, which jointly supervises the scientific program with the CSIRO division of atmospheric research. Samples are regularly sent to other laboratories around the world to ensure accuracy, as well as to participate in a range of cooperative programs. See Tasmania's Department of Primary Industries, Water and Environment for more information, as well as the CSIRO."

If you do a search for 'World's purest air' on Google (without the apostrophes), and also a search for 'Cape Grim', you'll find a lot of listings for the same thing, saying that the place is recognized as gathering "Some of the world's purest air". I've not found anything, at least yet, that's I'd consider a definite source to say that the state has teh world's purest air. My thought would be leave it out as a reference, though - we already know we've got the best air here ;) ~Jaguar 15:34, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you could place the paragraph back in the article but modify the line from "as having the purest air" to "as having among the worlds purest air" or anything similar. A source for this claim could be this Age Newspaper article [6] and I also found an Sydney Morning Herald article making similar claims. However so far I haven't been able to find an example of a source that could prove Tasmania has the 'purest air in the world' although I only looked for about 10 minutes. Kyle sb 04:10, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Should we mention it at all? It seems to be a claim that cannot be proven, and other places claim the same purity of air. Also - anyone in Launceston, back me up on this - in winter when most households have their wood heaters going, the air is anything but pure! And to put the final nail in the coffin is the Pulp Mill proposed for the Tamar Valley. --shiyoushi 15:45, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• Is Tasmania's climate similar to England? When I was in England it seemed much colder than Tas. Kyle sb 09:02, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I live in Hobart and I am sure that there are only two incidences of snow in the city, some time in the 1980s and again on the 16th of August, 2005. 220.253.106.212 09:53, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Tasmanian Culture

• It strikes me as strange that where culture is mentioned, we have no reference to Tasmanian visual artists, musicians, composers, musical groups (including the Tasmanian Symphony Orchestra) or the many other cultural areas in which Tasmanians excel. I think that this section needs to be extensively revised. What do people think?Wellingtoncat 20:55, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Common complaint on all australian state articles - due to the interests of and average age of editors I suspect - in most case they have very limited knowledge of the culutral heritage in their states. SatuSuro 12:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Agree with SatuSuro - its a case of systemic bias (see Wikipedia:Countering systemic bias). I can't think of many notable Tasmania's artists, maybe Peter Dombrovskis, Alan Moyle as photographers; The TSO as mentioned is an obvious one; Monique Brumby is really the only modern musician of national note; writers Richard Flanagan and Margaret Scott. I am not aware of any others, but that says more about my range of knowledge than anything else! -- Chuq 00:40, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

• Big problem is that things come and go - there is fashion inculture - the problem is the obsession with contemporary big names - I can think of at least 10 historians of Tasmania that deserve articles (oh If I ever had the time), then history of Uni of Tas - then the poets, the puppetteers, the novelists. I might get around to a sandbox outline for Tas - but I have a long overdue for the same for Perth, WA. I lived on the west coast in the late 1970's - I am convinced most editors on wikipedia were born long after that date! SatuSuro 02:27, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree that there is the problem of "things coming and going" in culture, and I suggest that in no situation is this more obvious than with sportsmen and recording artists. Both subject to coverage by the mass media, both subject to the whim of popular opinion. I think you're right SatuSuro, It has to be carefully considered why someone should be mentioned. Thanks for your list of notable Tasmanians Chuq!

• I suggest that we need paragraphs covering: Visual Arts, Music and Performing Arts, Literature, and Indigenous Culture (Although let me be the first to admit I don't know anything about Indigenous culture so I have no idea what should be included nor where this should fit into the article). I would also suggest some other preliminary additions: Composers: Peter Sculthorpe, Kitty Parker, Don Kay, Constantine Koukias; Dancer and choreographer Graham Murphy (former head of the Sydney Dance Company); Actor Errol Flynn; Painters John Glover, Geoff Dyer (Recipient of the 2003 Archibald Prize); and Tasmania's pre-eminent Wilderness photographer Olegas Truchanas (Dombrovskis' mentor). I recognise that there are many others to be mentioned including early settler and convict painters, composers and poets.

There is also The Southern Gospel Choir (Led by Andrew Legg - An Aria Nominated group, recorded with EMI and with Artists including Guy Sebastian). I'm not sure if people see this fitting in to this section. It is certainly popular within the state. (Wellingtoncat 22:31, 7 December 2006 (UTC))

I should point out List of Tasmanians here as well, by the way! -- Chuq 23:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Chuq! I have updated the list! (Wellingtoncat 02:13, 8 December 2006 (UTC))

• A good test would be Candle Records, Nick Armstrong, Ian Paullin, record shops of the 1970's - Tas Free Press, and for the reall oldies - the Sydney Sparkes Orr case? (which is an article but had no Tas Category with it) Tas History is not just environmental or old buildings - . Or the state film theatre in the 70's or the tas puppet thatre in the 70.s, or the theatre in education people of the 70's but the easy 'heritage things' people cannot easily packaged are the intangibles - the scandals and human weirdness of some of the awkward bits of Hobart and Tassie history - although richard (flanagan) and nick (shakespeare) do catch bits. As I say most contributors are born after these things happened - and do their parents tell them - I dont think so. SatuSuro 05:21, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

9+83

• The Culture section is shaping up very well now, at the same standard of better then the other states of Australia. Knobbly 02:26, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
• Apparently (& arguably, I guess) Tasmania is the only state with a recognisable state dish. Though presumably it wasn't invented in Tassie, would it be worth mentioning anyway?--Tyranny Sue (talk) 07:49, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Fate of Tasmanian aboriginals

• Doesn't the fate of the Tasmanian Aboriginals deserve more of a mention than just a link to the article Tasmanian Aboriginals? After all, from an international perspective I would hazard that this is one of the most notable, if tragic, aspects of Tasmania's history.Ashlar77 20:55, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• I don't like the wording of the new addition to the article about killing all of the natives - but it's accurate, I can't argue with that. Any thoughts? MojoTas 22:30, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I have moved it about, reworded, and added a link to Black War which has more details - what do you think? -- Chuq 23:27, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Nicely done. MojoTas 02:18, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Ocean names

• Interesting article. I corrected only one facet (that was correct in the map, but in error in the text) upon which Australian WP editors (or WP editors from any actual locality) do not have an "authoritative leg up." Australians, perhaps unfortunately due to the common usage on Australian maps, no more "get to decide" the name of the oceans of the world than do the people of, say, Chile, who refuse to use "Pacific" and have their own name for it on all their maps. The group that does is the IHO (see the WP Southern Ocean article for references....this article should not be cluttered with IHO references, I should think!) .

For good or bad (bad if you're a fan of Australian maps and terminology), they have decided that Australia is a continent sitting in the Indian Ocean, with the Pacific along its eastern side. They publish this with carefully delineated borders for these water bodies (see that mentioned in the WP Great Australian Bight article. So, certainly not for Australian use, but for a worldwide English enclopedia, its "Indian Ocean", not "Southern Ocean." The IHO very clearly ruled (after a vote of member nations) that the "Southern Ocean" stops at 60 degrees south, and north of that its the Indian Ocean. Not debatable, unless you want to try to overturn the worldwide and WP-wide acceptance of the IHO as the authority on these matters. Water bodies that Australia does not share with other nations are a different matter, of course. This is how world geographers (and the IHO) avoid having several names for various sides of various oceans. Having done the South Coast Track in Tasmania and looking southwest off the cliffs (an amazing place; huge old growth trees, remote beaches) and saying something to a local about the big Indian Ocean waves and getting an incredulous stare, I know this doesn't make sense locally.....But it's an international encyclopedia.DLinth 19:05, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Area discrepancy

Can someone please sort out the discrepancy between the area of the state as stated in the article on one hand, and the sidebar on the other? Koro Neil (talk) 16:42, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Nature Parks and Zoos in Tasmania?

Hello.

I am wondering if there are any Wiki articles for nature parks and zoos in Tasmania.

In December 1998 I fed a kangaroo on a school trip, and am trying to remember the name of the park. I think it may have been near Claremont, because we went next to get some chocolate at Cadbury's.

--Bronwyn Gannan (talk) 05:19, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Hello.

Just letting you know that the park you are after is most likely Bonorong Wildlife Park. See http://www.newnorfolk.org/~bonorong/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.147.182.25 (talk) 19:28, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

• Agree - that is the closest to Hobart, and has also been running for a long time. Noodle snacks (talk) 11:10, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

A few issues—this article needs serious work

• The caption for the infobox map is a bit lame: it implies that the other states and territories are at least named on the map. Otherwise, the map is really about Tassie in relation to the other ...", isn't it?
• The caption for the caravan pic is not good. Do I see the whole state? Expecting a google earth pic from the 19th century ...
• I've copy-edited the lead; there is still a strange emphasis on local government areas and what is included in the Hobart area. The lead needs to prepare readers for the topic as a whole, so you might consider removing some of that and replacing it with a summary statement a few sentences long about the history (including the fact that it was a British colony until 1900 and then joined the federation?), and possibly something about the economy. There are many more important things to include in the lead.
• Can this awkward clause be fixed so the pipes are not misleading ("hidden")? "Through war, persecution and the introduction of ...". [See the "exercises" link below for the solution under Part II.]]
• "by a small party sent from Sydney, under Lt."—is there a section link that would be more useful? The Sydney article is rather general. "History of Sydney" article section dealing with these times?
• Overlinking: wind? apples? sheep? captivity? hotel? train? Are they suddenly technical? The linking is generally poor, esp. deceptive links and targets that could be more specific. Try these exercises?
• MoS breaches all over the place.
• Needs much more copy-editing.

Not much to be proud of yet. Tony (talk) 08:20, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Agreed! However, all state and territory articles are poor.Aaroncrick (talk) 09:17, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Victoria is not too good. The other states a little better. Haven't looked at the NT or the ACT yet. Aaron, are you in a position to work on this one and do you know of other regular editors who might be able to as well? There's no particular rush, though. Tony (talk) 09:51, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I could. Well, there are no other regular Tasmanian editors anymore and I gather that the main WP Aus members would rather fix up their own state/city first. Aaroncrick (talk) 20:10, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Nah speak for youself ... all is not lost (yet) SatuSuro 09:24, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

European Red Fox

This does not deserve a whole section in the state article, It should be no more than one sentence, there are heaps of other introduced animals causing nuisance or not, such as fish, cats dogs rats or deer. Fork or spin off European Red Fox in Tasmania to its own article. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 23:21, 17 January 2010 (UTC) The Red Fox section contains several misleading statements: The Eastern Barred Bandicoot is not extict on mainland Australia, small populations still exist in the wild and in captivity. This animal is listed as endangered on mainland Australia. To suggest the Red Fox is responsible is incorrect, habitat destruction such as the removal of 95% of native grasslands is the primary cause of the Eastern Barred Bandicoots survival plight. Domestic and Feral cats and dogs, grass mowing, fire, poisoning and generally mans interference has led to the serious reduction of Bandicoot numbers. The Red Fox has certainly contributed to the loss of Eastern Barred Bandicoots but is only one of many factors. The Eastern Quoll is not officially listed as extinct, sightings still occur on the mainland, however, none of these sightings have been confirmed in recent years. To be officially confirmed extinct any animal under the guidelines of the IUCN must be unconfirmed through sightings or hard evidence (road kill etc) for a period of fifty years. Diplodwatcher (talk) 23:43, 23 January 2010 (UTC) There is no such animal as Rufus billardieri, the Pademelon or Rufus wallabies scientific name is Thylogale billardieri.Diplodwatcher (talk) 23:57, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Table in Climate

Is that meant to be mean maximum and mean minimum temperatures? Noodle snacks (talk) 07:59, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Yeah. —Aaroncrick (talk) 08:58, 1 March 2010 (UTC)