Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dominique Cottrez

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep 85.211.126.241 (talk) 22:36, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Dominique Cottrez

Dominique Cottrez (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)

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This is a sad and tragic case, and a sensational case, but it is material for a newspaper, not for an encyclopedia. It will no doubt be argued that it must be notable because it has been in all the papers, but that does not follow: the GNG itself says:

...significant coverage in reliable sources establishes a presumption, not a guarantee, that a subject is suitable for inclusion. Editors may reach a consensus that although a topic meets this criterion, it is not appropriate for a stand-alone article. For example, such an article may violate what Wikipedia is not.

This is such a case: per WP:NOT#NEWS, "Wikipedia considers the enduring notability of persons and events... most newsworthy events do not qualify for inclusion." This is more suitable for Wikinews: I would propose a transwiki, but unfortunately license incompatibility means that is not possible. JohnCD (talk) 15:06, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. —JohnCD (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. —JohnCD (talk) 16:54, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:00, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Keep. The women is a self confessed serial killer, clearly notable. How famous, or rather infamous does a person need to be, to be included in Wikipedia? The women is a child killer. This article needs cleaned, wikified and linked into other articles of the same ilk. scope_creep (talk) 22:05, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

• Comment on the face, it's a standard WP:NOTNEWS case - onetime event about lady who killed her 8 children, but the gravity of it makes it an edge case; or does it? Serial killers are fairly common, there really isn't any thing that unusual that I can see, I could be wrong though. Ryan Norton 08:27, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:20, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

• Second relist rationale. The article is a BLP. --Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:20, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
• Keep I understand the problem of having newsworthy events written up as articles immediately. If we dont write it, it looks silly if its notable, and if we write it and its obviously a news cycle filler, it doesnt belong here and makes us look unprofessional. i get that. but she killed 8 of her own children. Hello? I think it is safe to say that there WILL be hundreds of news articles, many books, endless commentary, and her image in every book on serial killers/mass murderers starting within a year. Serial killers are NOT that common. its just that with 7 billion people, we have a larger number each year. even more uncommon are females, and more so than that, females who kill their child, and even more so, females who kill most or all of their children, and even more notable, such females with 8 or more children. I wish people would stop invoking "one event" as if being known only for one event means someone is not notable. would lee harvey oswald have had an article on WP in 1962? no, but his doings in 62 are sure notable now. She is notable for one event, but that one event is highly notable. we wont know how notable she is for other parts of her life until the biographers have written them. i would suggest a rename to something like Dominique Cottrez murders if people dont want her as the subject, but that may seem contrived.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 01:44, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
  • My comment wasn't really a !vote either way; you have some good points. I was kind of trying to think of an alternative to keeping a pure bio article, but I don't see one; as you mention would be awkward to call it "Dominique Cottrez massacre" or something. At that point it is an editorial matter I suppose though... Ryan Norton 08:53, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
• Keep - as #Mercurywoodrose above, I get the difficulty of separating "ephemerally prominent" from "permanently noteworthy", and that that's not always easy without the perspective of time. But is there really much doubt about this one? Eight of her own children? The Fritzl article is under Fritzl case - how about Dominique Cottrez case? HeartofaDog (talk) 16:53, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
• Keep As per above; I like HeartofaDog's suggestion for the pagename as well. Ryan Norton 19:25, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.