User talk:Hhfreund

Welcome!

Hello, Hhfreund, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! Drmies (talk) 04:37, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

• Considering your sandbox, please have a look at WP:CITE on how to do footnotes. Also, if you are thinking of going live, it would be a good idea to re-edit the article for a more neutral tone, and to delete things that on Wikipedia wouldn't be considered notable, proper, or relevant. The award section, for instance: what cannot be verified should probably be cut. Good luck, Drmies (talk) 04:37, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Awards et al

Hello Drmies,

How would I go about verifying my Awards section?

Also, can you give me an idea of a sentence I included that is not neutral and maybe an example of how to make it neutral?

Thanks,

Hhfreund (talk) 04:49, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi, as you used the {{helpme}} template this flags up for attention generally, if you would prefer additional feedback from Drmies then the best way is to drop a note on User talk:Drmies. I took a moment to look through your draft and I hope these comments are useful:

1. For this article the awards are a simple way of demonstrating notability and consequently quite an important section to verify. I suggest you add footnotes to as many as you can that are mentioned in reliable sources, an example source is http://www.billboard.com/artist/jose-luis-orozco/bio/251586#/artist/jose-luis-orozco/bio/251586 where a few awards are listed. I normally try the freely available Google Books and Google News as first ports of call when searching for reliable sources. In this case I can see that this Google News search looks as though a few of the newspaper articles could be useful reliable sources. If you happen to have any magazine articles about him, these could be very useful citations as well even if they are not available on-line.
2. With regards to neutrality, the text seems quite reasonably neutral to my eyes. A minor suggestion would be to change "Orozco is a featured speaker and presenter" to just "Orozco is a speaker and presenter" as any speaker could claim to be featured.
3. The long list of where he has presented seems overly trivial - perhaps you could select some significant examples or just remove the section altogether.
4. Lastly, I noticed two problematic sources which should be removed - answers.com is not considered a reliable source (it is an uncontrolled forum) and Wikipedia itself cannot be used as a reliable source as any open wiki is subject to change and the referenced article may become irrelevant or incorrect.

In general the article looks good to go live. If you would like a final review before issuing it, I suggest leaving a note at WP:Requests for feedback, though this is not a mandatory step.

Thanks, Fæ (talk) 06:37, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

• Thanks Fae--this looks like sound advice. Hhfreunc, drop me or Fae a line if you have any more questions. Happy editing, and good luck with the article. Drmies (talk) 15:25, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Could I reference the website for Jose Luis Orozco as a source for the list of awards? He has most of them listed on his site? Thanks Hhfreund (talk) 03:40, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

His official website? Yes. If you look at WP:V#Reliable sources, you'll see the following: All self-published sources, whether experts or not, are considered reliable as sources on themselves, especially in articles about themselves, subject to certain criteria, though no article should be based primarily on such sources (see below). — GorillaWarfare ^talk 03:54, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

GorillaWarfare - Thanks very much. Hhfreund (talk)

How do I issue my sandbox page as a live article? Thanks

Hhfreund (talk) 05:56, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Do you mean userfy it? Your own personal sandbox isn't for the article space. Also, you can use the official sandbox. Hope that helped! MJ94 (talk) 06:00, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

MJ94: If you look at the page (User:Hhfreund/Sandbox) you'll see that it is, in fact, an article and not a sandbox. Hhfreund: I believe it is explained quite well at Wikipedia:Userspace draft#Ready!. If that explanation is not sufficient, please change the {{helpme-helped}} template back to the {{helpme}} template. — GorillaWarfare ^talk 06:02, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Scratch that. Because your account is not autoconfirmed yet, you will be unable to move the article. However, the article needs more work anyway. It needs to be wikified, for one. Second of all, there are non-encyclopedic contents in there, such as the sentence "It was from his tour around the world that he gained the cultural knowledge he now shares with children through his books and recordings." This is a statement that can't be verified. If he outright said that he gained the knowledge from the tour, then reword it to say this and cite a source. Furthermore, the list of songs is quite lengthy. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Also, you have external links in the article (such as to the National Hispanic University). External links should not be used in the article space, but rather in an external links section. And finally, perhaps using the citation templates will help you format your sitations. Try reading WP:Writing better articles. It has a lot of good tips. Good luck! Feel free to post on my talk page with any additional questions. — GorillaWarfare ^talk 06:38, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Ready to go live

{{helpme}} I have read through the style manual and made the edits that I could. I also took out the list of songs. Any other suggestions or requirements before I go live with the page? Thanks Hhfreund (talk) 05:01, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Re. User:Hhfreund/Sandbox

At the moment, large chunks of that draft have no reference - e.g. all of "Personal life" and most of "Career". Therefore, those facts are not verifiable. If they cannot be verified through a reliable source, they should be removed. Same for 'awards' - either supply a reference, or remove the unreferenced ones.

Awards

References for all facts are always important, but they are especially important for a biography of a living person.  Chzz  ►  05:10, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi HH, a word of encouragement. I think this is a valid article and worth pursuing. Taking on board the comments you have received, it might be worth stripping the article back to those paragraphs that are well supported by sources and consider re-adding other areas after the article is live and when you find reliable sources to support them. This has the benefit of attracting comments and contributions from other editors on the article talk page. Thanks, Fæ (talk) 06:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Fae, Thank you for your encouragement and good advice. I think I will try what you are recommending. This has really been a learning experience. Hhfreund (talk) 22:51, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

I have one last question about Awards section of the page. Most of the awards are listed on his website at http://www.joseluisorozco.com/press-facts.php . Would it suffice to use this as the reference for the entire section? Incidently, I have already listed a few different references, but I do not have a separate reference for every single award. Thanks, Hhfreund (talk) 02:53, 29 August 2010 (UTC)