Talk:Child sexual abuse

Passage Removal

I've removed the following passage from the Prevalence/South Africa section:

A number of high-profile baby rapes since 2001 (including the fact that they required extensive reconstructive surgery to rebuild urinary, genital, abdominal, or tracheal systems) increased the need to address the problem socially and legally. In 2001, a 9-month-old baby was raped by six men, aged between 24 and 66, after the infant had been left unattended by her teenage mother. A 4-year-old girl died after being raped by her father. A 14-month-old girl was raped by her two uncles. In February 2002, an 8-month-old infant was reportedly gang raped by four men. One has been charged. The infant has required extensive reconstructive surgery. The 8-month-old infant's injuries were so extensive, increased attention on prosecution has occurred.

...not because it's not useful information there, but because the text is copied, wholly unaltered, from copyrighted material (please see Sources under copyright). Interested editors should contribute the information it contains in unique prose or, if that proves too difficult, incorporate it as appropriate quotes from the source.
--K10wnsta (talk) 01:36, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Reinstatement request

A number of high-profile baby rapes since 2001 (including the fact that they required extensive reconstructive surgery to rebuild urinary, genital, abdominal, or tracheal systems) increased the need to address this disturbing problem socially and legally. A 4-year-old girl died after being raped by her father. In 2001 after an infant had been left unattended by her teenage mother, a 9-month-old baby was raped by six men, aged between 24 and 66. In February 2002, an 8-month-old infant was reportedly gang raped by four men. One has been charged. The infant has required extensive reconstructive surgery due to horrific injuries. The 8-month-old infant's injuries were so horrific, increased attention on prosecution has occurred. A 14-month-old girl was raped by her two uncles.

The above paragraph should be added to the article as I've edited it and it shows some of the absolutely life-destroying effects of paedophila including death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.46.138.129 (talk • contribs) 15:25, December 14, 2010

Couple of issues here. Yeah, that paragraph has decent information (if a little anecdotal), but it's a copy -paste. That's not allowed; it's a violation of copyright, and technically plagiarism if inserted as-is. If you write it in your own words here, then it can be inserted into the article.

Second, please don't call the abuse itself "pedophilia." That's the wrong use of that term. "Pedophilia" is the word for the attraction to prepubescent children (under 13). I'm not trying to be pedantic or anything, just that the misuse of this term is widespread and it screws up how this problem is studied because it muddles two separate issues together that need to be addressed separately.

Third, personally I feel the first body text section of this article more than addresses the damage the abuse can cause. If you read that section all the way through and feel something is missing, find a reliable source to support your claim, post it here and I will add it for you (I can edit this article because I started an account).Legitimus (talk) 21:35, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Islam missing?

This article seems to be missing a section about religiously inspired pedophilia, which can be found in Islam.

Girls: Mohammad himself - the perfect example for moslems - had sex with a nine year old girl (Aisha). Some islam-scholars see this age as valid today.

Boys: Pashtun areas have a religiously inspired covering of all non-family women, and women are more unclean because of menstruation anyway. So MANY men openly aquire young boys for sex. Source: http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-08-29/opinion/22949948_1_karzai-family-afghan-men-president-hamid-karzai —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.210.46.118 (talk) 06:43, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

While some mention of this topic is warranted, there are a few issues:

My understanding was the tale of Mohammad and his 9 year old bride was largely apocryphal, some kind of peculiar metaphor for purity. I'm not a muslim so I cannot explain much more, but I have heard this interpretation from muslims. One person also pointed out that the Quran does not actually say she was 9 but rather some sort of third party source is where this story comes from. Further, I have yet to see a published muslim jurist (clerics who interpret law) declare 9 years old as a valid age of consent. For example, in largely muslim Bangladesh and Malaysia, the age of consent is 18.

Pashtun practice could be workable as material, but we need a better more reliable source than an opinion piece in a San Francisco paper. Also, they seem to represent a very small, twisted minority in Islam. If I recall correctly, in Iran a man caught doing such a thing is usually sentenced to death by getting stuffed in a potato sack and thrown off a cliff down a rocky slope.Legitimus (talk) 17:02, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

I have a project to document male CSA survivor information/resources...here?

I'm a male survivor of childhood sexual abuse (CSA). I'm in close contact with a large number of people interested in CSA from a survivor advocacy, healing POV generally. We've recognized a need to collect a large amount of information of interest to us and others working in this area and a wiki seems like a good method. However, wikipedia is doing this a bit also on this page, has a vast (OMG!) infastructure to handle all kinds of issues that obviously come up. I've read quite a lot in the various guidelines for content and editors. (Wow...) We have a need to get pretty detailed however--"provide a central place for everything". Like, list and describe survivor self help web sites, describe a long list of organizations somehow a "stakeholder" in the issue via treatment, prevention, avocacy/awareness, etc. For example, there's not even a mention of "Stop It Now", an important prevention organization. That merits a few to a dozen paragraphs (on a different page obviously devoted to Stop It Now). Obviously this is relevant to more than just this wikipedia page (on CSA). There's really no limit to the detail, but I imagine it all to be more or less solidly in the "statement of fact" catagory, matching the guidelines I've been reading, with sources cited. Not clearly opinions, information about individuals (like a survivor diary or "story"). It's not clear to me if we should somehow work within this wikipedia community. Can you help me here? Of course, the devil is in the details, but does this seem like a good idea? What would limit the level of detail? On notability, creating new pages allows for a vast amount of detail. It's certainly of great interest to many people, but enough people? For example, I know of at least a dozen support groups for male survivors. A paragraph about this would interest some people: survivors themselves, mental health professionals but not wide interest. I need a clear sense of what to expect before I invest the time to organize a group of people and create a lot of content. Can you help me here? AllanEAnderson (talk) 20:46, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

There has been a general shying away from promoting specific organizations by name, simple due to the shear number of them out there and the desire to be fair. Perhaps, would you be interested in starting your own wiki for this subject? Wikia.com allows you to create your own wiki based on a specific subject, and if you are the starting member, you are the highest ranking adminstrator for that wiki.Legitimus (talk) 16:08, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I would like to address that by including them all, in some kind of organized hierarchy with equal treatment. Initially as a skeleton and filled in over time. I think I could do that. And a separate wiki is certainly an option, but... there is so much here that is useful to this project, and it seems like something appropriate to the wikipedia, or could be adjusted to be. I agree with the neutral point of view, referenced facts, general tone here for my purposes.

Thanks for responding. You appear to be quite active in this talk page. I don't understand quite who to pose this question to, and how different desires are dealt with or harmonized. If I just went ahead and added a few pages and a dozen stubs, who would notice and care? Just, .....whoever takes the time to notice and care? I don't want to put a lot of time into something unwanted that's going to be deleted. AllanEAnderson (talk) 00:32, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Come to think of it not a lot of users seem to check on this page much anymore (I think it's because the subject is so unpleasant) I just keep watch over it from time to time. I was hoping someone else with more authority on wikipedia policy and style (as opposed to subject matter like myself) would have responded by now.

I was not totally clear on what you were trying to do at first, but now I have a better idea. Did you notice the last External Link is an Open Directory Project page? It is an editable branching directory of all sorts of organizations and sites related to this subject, and more can be added. That said, I think a small section on the subject of organizations like the ones you mentioned could benefit this article, so I would go ahead and add it. Sometimes that's what you have to do to get attention drawn to a subject. WP:BE BOLD, the worst that could happen is it get's reverted and discussed further here.Legitimus (talk) 02:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the ODP pointer. Helpful. Is it appropriate to say, make a short first attempt of an entry and describe what else you intend to include? That would let me "just go ahead and do it" while not investing immediately a ton of time to do it very well. Or is there another place for such remarks? Probably the talk page, yes. So, agreed. BE BOLD IT IS!

I have in mind much more than just these organizations. I propose we discuss and develop quickly an outline of changes, then get to creating it. Discuss and change, add to the following outline as you see fit. (Obviously discuss large changes or deletions before doing them... to be "nice"). This is just my first draft.

Example:

• Entry
  • Planned work

• Child Sexual Abuse
  • Re Disclosure: Add mention of male socialization inhibiting disclosure. Link to "Survivor of Child Sexual Abuse"
  • Prevention Add approaches to prevention encouraging disclosure (child focused, adult focused). Attempts to cause potential offenders to seek treatment. Link to Page:List of Child Sexual Abuse Prevention Organizations
• New Entry:List of Child Sexual Abuse Prevention Organizations
  • Stop It Now, etc. A potentially long list.
• New Entry:Survivor of CHild Sexual Abuse
  • Expand on CSA:Treatment:Adults in more detail.
  • Section: Male survivors. Disparity in services and awareness. Effects of male socialization, physiology,
  • Healing: General description of steps and resources for help. On-line, individual and group therapy, support groups, healing retreats (Weekends of recovery's) books.
  • Healing: List of survivor on-line support forums.
• New Entry:List of survivor on-line support forums.
  • Malesurvivor, After the Silence, Men Thriving, Pandora's Aquarium, Teen sites (is advertising this site wise?)

Requested edit

Please someone edit the page to the life-destroying, cruel and horrific effects of child sex abuse as follows:

Effects of child sexual abuse include guilt and self-blame, flashbacks, nightmares, insomnia, fear of things associated with the abuse (including objects, smells, places, doctor's visits, etc.), self-esteem issues, sexual dysfunction, chronic pain, addiction, self-injury, suicidal ideation, somatic complaints, depression, post-traumatic stress disorder, anxiety, other mental illnesses (including borderline personality disorder and dissociative identity disorder, propensity to re-victimization in adulthood, and physical injury to the child, among other problems. Victims of child sex abuse are over six times more likely to attempt suicide and eight times more likely to repeatedly attempt suicide. The abusers are also more likely to commit suicide. Much of the harm caused to victims becomes apparent years after the abuse happens. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.44.252.83 (talk • contribs)

Mostly unreliable sources, especially drlowenstein. Otherwise plausible, but possibly biased. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 22:58, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

This Dr Lowenstein is not who you think he is. This one is the President-Elect of the International Council of Psychologists and is incredibly highly qualified. I could give you all his qualifications and experience if you wish. The suggested edit is simply a statement of fact. --86.44.252.83 (talk) 23:20, 15 December 2010 (UTC)