Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/François Asselineau

François Asselineau

François Asselineau (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Nominating per this ANI thread. Apparently, the article was deleted at frwiki for lack of notability (though their notability standards are different from ours). Although the subject is mentioned in several reliable French newspapers, several French(?) editors have mentioned that the newspaper articles barely refer to the subject at all and that the article is mostly promotional. Referring to AFD for the community to examine. NW (Talk) 15:18, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

• Correctly deleted from the French Wikipedia by their criteria for a politician (no electoral mandate), but we have no such rule. This arguably does belong on en.wiki because of the coverage in reliable French newspapers (which is demonstrable from the links already in the article). This character is a minor, but colourful and controversial, political figure on the right wing in France. (By French standards he's fairly extreme right wing, although I suspect his views would be mainstream at a British UKIP conference or a US Tea Party). Some of the sources barely refer to the subject at all and may be removed. The article is mostly promotional. But I think this is fixable by normal editing. I'll go with weak keep, and I personally pledge to help with the fixing if it's kept.—S Marshall T/C 15:31, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
• Keep - Per the general notability guideline. This is a seminotable politician who has had decent coverage in the French newspapers, thus also meeting WP:POLITICIAN #3. However, I would support removing the unreferenced content about his personal life. Reaper Eternal (talk) 15:44, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
• keep Dear NW, thank you for your notification. I found 2 points in the claim:
  • The article is mostly promotional

    I referred to this Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_soapbox_or_means_of_promotion where 5 points of promotion are developed: 1. Advocacy, propaganda, or recruitment Since it is a biography, it will be difficult to make propaganda on it. 2. Opinion pieces All information come from the sources. They are just facts of his career. 3. Scandal mongering The biography does not mention any scandal. 4. Self-promotion I am not François Asselineau. 5. Advertising All sources are independent and from third-parties such as Les_Échos_(France), Libération, Le Monde, Le Parisien and Le Figaro.

  • the newspaper articles barely refer to the subject at all

    Without even reading French, you can see that the name "François Asselineau" is in the title of these articles: source 1, source 2, Source 3, Source 4...

  • S Marshall mentioned also that françois Asselineau had no electoral mandate which is untrue since he had been elected member of the council of Paris source. I wish these explanations will help you. Cordially, --Lawren00 (talk) 16:03, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
• keep More than a million cumulate viewers on DailyMotion (French) and YouTube (Worldwide) .. Saying he has no notoriety is like saying that Agusta A.101 has a great notoriety and anyone in France knows about it .. This is a silly discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.231.15.101 (talk) 19:37, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
• Strong Delete. This would be politician has no notoriety whatsoever in France. The article is skillfully misleading in the way it uses references. Their number suggests that F. Asselineau has some kind of notoriety. This is not all the case. In every reference his name is just mentioned in passing, as he is a civil servant who has worked for famous politicians on whom the articles are about. But he has no personal notoriety. Recently he has tried to launch a personal political career, but it's been a failure. It's not been mentioned in the news media. His "political party" is just him and a few friends. No one has ever heard of it in France. Wikipedia is just a way this person has found to revive his failed political career. Gede (talk) 16:30, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
• Strong Delete. Idem Gede. Asselineau has absolutely no notoriety in France and its admissibility on WP:fr has been clearly denied. Regarding the cited sources, it doesn't directly refers to the person but are solely sometimes a vague mention to him. We faced on WP:fr a strong PoV pushing (now pages are protected to creation) to promote this person and its so-called political party which has absolutely no notoriety but wants to acquire one.--LPLT (talk) 18:33, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

• Keep Shame! this gentleman is like Nigel Farage (NB : F. Asselineau is better) Be careful what you do, EVERYBODY IS WATCHING YOU. you discredit wikipedia !

• Keep Although François Asselineau's notoriety is quite low compared to some other politicians, it is far bigger than some persons' biographies you can find on wikipedia. His conferences also generated from 750 000 to 1 million views on dailymotion and youtube which makes him pretty popular on the french internet scene.
  Another point is that he has in fact been elected counselor of Paris. Also, what makes you think it is necesseraly him or his friends that created this notice?
  Btw saying he is deinfitly extreme right is a total nonsense to everybody who knows the french political scene a little and has common sense. There is no xenophobia, racism, anti-semitism in his speeches so why saying he is extreme right wing?
  Basically all the points raised to delete are wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by La botte secrète (talk • contribs) 20:33, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

• I do not want to interfere in the decision process of this project, but seeing broad declarations about "articles not being relevant", I thought you might be interested in getting some detail about the content of the references of the article (as you may not be fluent in french) so that you can decide by yourselves.

A remarkable fact is that most of the references are not "press articles". They are mere mentions of appointments. Les Echos are an economical journal who regularly posts entries related to the appointment of civil servants or executives.

These entries are put in what they call "Le carnet". You can find the Carnet here. You will find therein brief announcements relating to deaths or appointments of civil servants or in corporates. Arguably, not all people mentionned therein are notable for WP.

Anyway, herebelow in the collapsed box, the detail of all the references.

So all in all, a civil servant with an average career, who at some point appears to have tried to start a political carreer. With the support of some one of his political sponsors (Pasqua), was elected at a local election in 2001. Since then, lost his support, jumped from party to party (from the biggest going down to the smallest, see RIF), did not even represent himself at the next elections and founded his own party. This party, founded in 2007, is completely unknown. I could not found one single article talking about it, except for the short reference hereabove, in 2008. Oddly enough, there is an article about a "Union populaire républicaine" party in Wikipedia in french and here, but...it is about a party who disappeared in 1946.

Hope this helps. 217.136.98.58 (talk) 21:42, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

• Keep This article for deletion was only initiated by French administrator due to political reasons. WP:fr is really a shame.--90.18.156.174 (talk) 22:39, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

  Note: This debate has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:37, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

  Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:38, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

• Keep See here and here. I don't see why a former inspector general of finance wouldn't be notable. There's plenty of sources about him out there. Silverseren^C 04:42, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

  My reading indicates that at best, that is analagous to an undersecretary in the federal government of the United States. I imagine that isn't terribly notable... NW (Talk) 05:18, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

  Ah, it sounded more important than that. :P Well, regardless, there are more than enough sources about him out there. It makes me wonder if there is some political reason for its deletion over on French Wikipedia, but I wouldn't know. Maybe they are just that much more strict about Notability over there. Silverseren^C 05:43, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

  The french WP is indeed definitely particularly strict especially for french people perceived as creating their own entry in WP, and probably even more for unknown politicians trying to boost their carreer (which is, I understand, the reason for the deletion over there, but I did not really looked into it and did not participate in that deletion). Being strict has probably a lot to do with the fact that an entry on WP:fr for a french person may have an impact on his actual notability IRL (in any case, it is the reason why they create it). WP:en may have different criteria and may be less concerned by the impact a page may have, if any, in France, this is the reason why I just gave hereabove some factual information about the sources of the article, without giving my opinion on what WP:en should do with the article (but be patient with guys from WP:fr giving their opnion here, they fear -and it has already started- that an article staying here will serve to create pages on other wikis and will end up promoting the re-creation of the WP:fr article). Anyway, I just stopped by to give another information: an inspector general of finance is probably not even the equivalent of an undersecretary. An inspector general of finance is merely, as I understand it, one of the 260 members, all civil servants, of the General Inspection of Finances, an auditing body of the French administration. Hope this helps. 217.136.98.58 (talk) 06:58, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

  Well it's not as if he was only a general inspector of finance. He's been "chef de cabinet" chief of staff of numerous ministers (Panafieu, Longuet for instance). Arguing is unotability over that simple argument isn't serious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.198.158.245 (talk) 08:16, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

• Keep per sources from Le Figaro and Le Parisien. Comte0 (talk) 05:52, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

• Strong Keep This deletion is intended for political reasons by french extremist politics. 57000 results on google.fr and about 70000 on google.com for "François Asselineau". French page of François Asselineau has already been censored for a long time with no serious reasons by wikipedias watchdogs (see LPLT). Yes you're facing strong PoV, what proves Gede is actually just telling lies about the so called political failure of M. Asselineau. The UPR is a growing movement in France (due to Internet acces to information) but all the major medias are trying to keep it under water. If WP is now doing the same exact job as mainstream broadcasted medias, what's it's purpose ? I thought we were on free information platform, not on manipulated garbage. Thanks not to spend so much energy on trying to delete M. Asselineau's pages and please give us free access on restoring WP:fr "François Asselineau" page. Best regards, 62.147.205.164 (talk) 09:28, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

• Keep [I don't know what the problem with this article about F.Asselineau, It's perfectly acceptable and u have absolutely nothing to oppose. Plus rien ne ralentira sa progression à l'exception du temps. Désolé for my poor English. By the way, I'm French so where is the Asselineau's French Page ?!] 83.198.38.58 (talk) 12:50, 9 March 2011 (UTC) Metra Inc. comment added by Metra Inc. (talk) 12:09, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

• Strong Keep INFO : User/Deletionists Gede & LPLT are French. Attention ! here it's wikipedia not la fête des BBR...

//// Usr "UDUFRUDUHU" This user is also French... CQFD ////

• SuperStrong Keep [So it's nothing but a political ploy ! Probably FN] 83.198.38.58 (talk) 14:49, 9 March 2011 (UTC) Metra Inc.duplicate vote struck out by me... Carrite (talk) 04:26, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

• Strong Keep This deletion is intended for political reasons by french extremist politics. 57000 results on google.fr and about 70000 on google.com for "François Asselineau" show his polpularity. French page of François Asselineau has already been censored for a long time with no serious reasons by wikipedias watchdogs (see LPLT). Yes you're facing strong PoV, what proves Gede is actually just telling lies about the so called political failure of M. Asselineau. The UPR is a growing movement in France (due to Internet acces to information) but all the major medias are trying to keep it under water. If WP is now doing the same exact job as mainstream broadcasted medias, what's it's purpose ? I thought we were on free information platform, not on manipulated garbage. Thanks not to spend so much energy on trying to delete M. Asselineau's pages and please give us free access on restoring WP:fr "François Asselineau" page. Best regards, Sperate (talk) 16:24, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

• Delete since, up to now, it has not been demonstrated that :
  • François Asselineau occupied any function in the French political system that would give him a sufficient notability. Inspector general of finance is nothing but a common function the French administration. There is not any notability that goes with this function.
  • None of the sources are focused on François Asselineau himself but mention him as linked to the main subject of the article. See the detailed analysis of the references in the hidden box above. Udufruduhu (talk) 16:31, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

  I mention to the attention of the sysop that will conclude this talk page that both Sperate and La botte secrète are accounts created just to give positive opinion in this page, see [19], [20]. I wouldn't be surprised that some other contributors appear here in the same way. Udufruduhu (talk) 16:41, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

• Comment Amusingly, the deletion of the page on French Wikipedia led to the creation of this. As for other sources, see this, this and this. Silverseren^C 17:05, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

• Keep - I favor the lowest of all possible barriers to notability for political parties and their youth sections, regardless of ideology. As there is no page for the political party established by this subject (Popular Republican Union), I am amenable to assuming per se notability on that basis alone. With 47,000 google hits on the name, it is clear that we are dealing with a significant public figure here. I don't speak French, but I will lay 5 American dollars that there are third party sources out there about this individual. The fact that a page on the subject got whacked on the French Wikipedia doesn't relate to the English article before us here. Carrite (talk) 04:35, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

• Keep Il s'agirait de redescendre sur terre, M. François Asselineau est président de l'union populaire républicaine, l'U.P.R. compte plusieurs centaines d'adhérents à jour de cotisations ainsi que plus d'un millier de sympathisants, notamment sur Facebook. Outre son brillant parcours, M. François Asselineau est reconnu en France et à l'étranger pour la justesse de ses analyses. Si l'on fait une synthèse de l'ensemble des informations déjà longuement détaillées ici, force est d'admettre que M. François Asselineau est bien plus présidentiable que ne pourrait l'être Madame Cindy Lee (Présidente du sulfureux parti du plaisir et strip-teaseuse à ses heures perdues).
  • VOYEZ CECI : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parti_du_plaisir.

  Si Madame Cindy Lee dispose de sa page Wiki, je ne vois pas quelle raison sérieuse pourrait s'opposer à la publication de la page de M. François Asselineau. (à l'exception, bien entendu, d'un acte de malveillance). C'est une question de bon sens. En conséquence je demande à la fondation Wikipedia de bien vouloir réactiver toutes les pages ayant trait à M. François Asselineau. CDT 83.198.41.24 (talk) 04:49, 10 March 2011 (UTC)Cirrus&Pigs

• KEEP It's just a political conspiracy and Users LPLT, Gede, Udufruduhu are liars ! It's a shame ! 83.198.32.94 (talk) 05:35, 10 March 2011 (UTC) L.GarnementdeFortune