Talk:M2 Browning

Minor Mod to usage table

I've modifed the "manufactured locally under license by " in the Description portion of the International Usage table to be "also manufactured locally under license by " as the Australian Army uses US manufacturewd versions of the M2 as well as locally made versions. IN fact I never saw a locally manufactured version when I was an armour corps soldier (probably the bigest suer tof the M2 in Australian service), though I am aware that ADI does manufacture them and the Aussie services do presumably use them.

Usage table

The UK section of the usage table states that the M2 is used as the ranging rifle in the Chieftan.

I storngly suspect that the Cheiftan used a special ranging rifle (i.e. not an M2). If it did use an M2 then I suggest the ammo would have to be diffferent from standard ammo ranges used int eh M2 as teh ammo would need to be ballistically amtched to eh 120mm main gun.

Any old RAC troopers out there tha can confirm this?

Merge proposal for GAU-21, XM218, and GAU-16

Support - These are minor subvariants of the M2 Browning Machine Gun family. I don't see there being any reason for separate articles. If they were to be expanded they would either be perpetual stubs or contain duplicate information. -- Thatguy96 02:01, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

• Support - Makes sense. Koalorka (talk) 17:06, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
• Support - I would have merged without discussion. Too busy now. Rsduhamel (talk) 06:28, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

NOTE: This proposal has been expanded to include the GAU-16 article for the same reasons. -- Thatguy96 (talk) 18:54, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

• Done - So I just went and merged the articles. -- Thatguy96 (talk) 16:27, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

History contradiction

This article says that the 50 BMG cartridge was developed in response to the German 13 mm anti-tank gun, but the 50 BMG article says this is a myth. Somebody who has authoritative info on this needs to tell us which is right.--Dwane E Anderson (talk) 15:27, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

XM296 being replaced by M3P

It looks like the OH-58D's XM296 may be on its way out, to be replaced by M3P from surplus Avengers.[1] --D.E. Watters (talk) 22:18, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Carriage

¿Why is there no mention of the M93 Mod 4 Carriage used for vehicle-mounted M-2? I wanted to add the information, but I can’t even see where it might fit. A. REDDSON —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.34.70.241 (talk • contribs)

References

reference number two doesn't count for FNH being the manufacture of the machine gun since it is for general dynamics. But FNH has been the original manufacture since John Browning worked with them to develop the gun.

One problem with your story: John Browning didn't develop the original M1918 prototype with FN. From August 1914 to November 1918, FN Herstal wasn't in a position to do firearm design work for anyone except for the German occupation forces. Instead, Browning's work on the M1918 was done with the help of Colt and Winchester. The M1921 redesign has been credited to Colt engineer Fred Moore, and the M2 to an Army Ordnance engineering team working with Colt. Please note that Browning had been dead a few years by the time work started on the M2 variant. --D.E. Watters (talk) 22:20, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Read FNH book and catalog D.E. Watters. It has the history for the M2 Browning machine gun saying he designed the gun with FN Herstal. He even had an office there. AR-15(6.8 SPC) Proud supporter of the NRA! (talk) 05:07, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Which title would that be? Even FNH USA's webpage admits that the FN Herstal factory was seized by the Germans in 1914 and used as a hospital and vehicle repair facility. Other sources indicate that when FN employees refused to work for the German occupation forces, the factory was stripped of its arms making machinery and tooling. The First World War didn't end until November 1918. Yet Browning had already completed and fired his first .50 caliber water-cooled prototype at Colt in September 1918. Winchester was tasked with an air-cooled variant of Browning's .50 caliber design, and the first of these was test-fired a few days after the Armistice. If anyone from FN was helping Browning with developing those prototypes, they certainly weren't residing in Belgium at the time. FNH USA's webpage agrees that Browning didn't bring his WW1-era designs to Belgium until 1919. FNH's website notes that they didn't begin producing the heavy machine gun design until the 1930s. --D.E. Watters (talk) 21:18, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Their OFFICIAL military catalog. Why would they want to put misleading information? Where did you get the information that he was with Colt and Winchester. On the FN HERSTAL website it says they are the original producers of the M2 browning machine gun. AR-15(6.8 SPC) Proud supporter of the NRA! (talk) 03:34, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Official catalogs get stuff wrong all of the time. They are typically written by Public Relations flacks who are not necessary conversant with the products they are advertising. Sadly, most companies no longer have a historian on staff to sort these things out. However, I did notice that on Page 11 in FNH USA's 2008 Military Products catalog, they have a photo of Browning test-firing his original water-cooled .50 cal machinegun prototype. The caption states: "John M. Browning personally tests an early water-cooled model of his .50 caliber machine gun in September 1918." September 1918 has been confirmed in other sources as the date of the first automatic firing of the first prototype. The sources also indicate that this test was conducted in the meadow outside of Colt's factory. These include "John M. Browning: American Gunmaker" and "The Machine Gun: History, Evolution, and Development of Manual, Automatic, and Airborne Repeating Weapons, Vol. 1". Other sources discussing the evolution of the .50 caliber M1918, M1921, and M2 include "Hard Rain: History of the Browning Machine Guns" and "The Ordnance Department: Planning Munitions for War". The Collector Grade Publications release "The Browning Machine Gun Volume IV - Semper Fi FIFTY!" should also confirm these accounts. The advertising blurb for the latter states: "2008 marks the 90th anniversary of John Browning's first .50 caliber prototype, which, after a shaky start, came into its own with the introduction of the M2 "universal receiver" in 1933." Remember that Browning died in 1926. 1927 is the earliest date I can find cited for the start of development for individual product improvements that were ultimately incorporated into the M2. Most of the work took place between 1930 and 1933. The M2 introduced the universal receiver, which could be set up for any of the three major service configurations: aviation (air-cooled light barrel), armor (air-cooled heavy barrel), and anti-aircraft (water-cooled). Previous versions of the .50 caliber Brownings used dedicated receivers for each configuration. The other major product improvement allowed for the belt feed to be changed from one side to the other in the same receiver. --D.E. Watters (talk) 23:29, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Here are links to the Springfield Armory National Historical Site's weapon collection. They just happen to have both versions of the .50 cal. Browning M1918: the Colt (water-cooled)[2] and the Winchester (air-cooled)[3]. If you decide to research the .50 M1921 and M1921A1 service models, and the various prototypes leading up to the M2, you'll find that they were all built by Colt. --D.E. Watters (talk) 19:09, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

FN-Herstal had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with the development of the .50 BMG cartridge and the M2 series of Browning machineguns.

FN did not even manufacture .50 BMGs until, at the earliest, 1944 when FN did repair work on small arms for the US military after the liberation of Belgium.

Your FN-H "history" is corporate propaganda---better known as "bullshit." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.149.233.160 (talk) 11:05, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Do not remove the text as 'incorrect' without citing a reliable source that disagrees with it. ROG5728 (talk) 21:05, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Do not enter text that cites unreliable sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.127.152.206 (talk) 22:41, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

You have not shown the source to be incorrect except by means of original research, which has no relevance on Wikipedia. ROG5728 (talk) 05:08, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

The "source" has not been shown to be reputable or correct. Therefore, by your silly Wikipedia rules, it is not to be used as a reference. There's your "relevance." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.127.176.129 (talk) 07:22, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

FN Herstal qualifies as a reliable source, unless shown to be incorrect. Original research (such as yours) has no relevance on Wikipedia so it cannot possibly establish that the source is incorrect. Do not remove the text as 'incorrect' without citing a reliable source that disagrees with it. ROG5728 (talk) 07:53, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Pre-War Commercial Models

Perhaps we need to mention the pre-WW2 commerical models from Colt and FN. I know the Colts were the MG52 (water-cooled) and MG53 (air-cooled/aircraft). I can't find a designation for the FN models, but they are known to have exported some chambered in 13.2mm Hotchkiss. --D.E. Watters (talk) 22:36, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

m2 browning machine guns used to eliminated California's wild bear.

North eastern Sierra Nevada Grizzly were so large the browning m2 was used to bring them down. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.101.112.2 (talk) 16:45, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Added only M2 in North Korean

The gun fitted to the captured USS Pueblo is probably the only M2 in North Korea, so I added the photo of it: File:USS Pueblo 3.JPG --Kristoferb (talk) 05:46, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

"Ma Deuce"?

"Ma Deuce" is a bogus nickname. No one in the US military uses this term. It is the creation of pompous asshat Peter Kokalis, a hack writer for various gun magazines.

Referring to a .50 caliber Browning as "Ma Deuce" is a certain indication that the speaker is a fake wannabe "veteran"... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.149.233.160 (talk) 11:38, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Again, the text you are removing cites reliable sources. Your personal take is irrelevant original research. ROG5728 (talk) 21:16, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

FN and the Browning MG

FN had absolutely nothing to do with the design of the Browning .50 caliber machinegun. It was designed in the US, prototypes were built by Colt and Winchester and can be seen in the Springfield Armory museum. FN did not have anything to do with the .50 BMG until, at the earliest, 1944 when FN did repair work under contract to the US military. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.4.139.104 (talk • contribs) 14:05, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa (talk) 20:46, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

---

M2 Browning machine gun → M2 Browning — Descriptive enough and shorter. Marcus Qwertyus 18:31, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Fine with me, so long as the current title still redirects to it--L1A1 FAL (talk) 03:31, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

PureLuckDesign.com video

I deleted the pureluckdesign.com video because it is inaccurate. The accelerator does not latch the barrel extension, so the barrel returns too soon. The breech lock doesn't unlock and the bolt just slides by.

• Video of a CG M2 showing the inner workings as it goes through the firing cycle.

Glrx (talk) 14:36, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

The comment is correct. The article fails to point out that the .50 cal uses a form of API, advanced primer ignition. The bolt locked to the barrel and barrel extention recoils against spring pressure a short distance and then the bolt unlocks from the barrel and pushed by the accelerater cams (which take energy from the recoiling barrel & ext.) continues alone all the way to the rear of the receiver striking the buffer then returning under spring pressure. The barrel and barrel extention (into which the barrel is screwed) remain locked a short distance to the rear until the bolt returns forward chambering a round and striking the accelerater cams locking itself to the barrel extention at the same time releasing the barrel and ext. The whole mass, locked together, then continues forward due to momentum and spring pressure. The sear, (when adusted properly with timing guages), releases the firing pin to strike the primer before the reciprocating mass (bolt, barrel ext., and barrel) is fully forward, so that a portion of the recoil is absorbed by counter recoil in fully automatic fire (when friring from the open bolt). That has made this weapon so reliable and effective for such a long time.