User talk:MirkoS18

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Excessive Categories

I would like to point out that Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) does not mean you can list "serbian" names in bold in the intro, and it does not give you leave to put it in the infobox, since serbian or german is not an official language in the Republic of Croatia (the only language that is is Italian in Istria.) I also removed your strange category from the majority of villages you put them on, since they are not listed as being a part of that "Joint Council of Municipalities". Moreover, that whole category looks excessive and unneccessary, so I am telling you now that I will work on getting it removed completely from the other pages. As you can see, pages like Jagodnjak for example have only 2 categories or so. Yes, it is possible for them to have more but they don't, because Wikipedia users have kept it that way to keep extraneous categories (like the one you are putting in) from popping up. If you have any questions or concerns, please leave respond or leave a message for me to prevent possible edit wars. Regards. --Jesuislafete (talk) 20:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

RE: Joint Council of Municipalities

RE: It is clear that the only official language throughout the entire territory of Croatia is Croatian language. However, the municipalities/settlements about which I wrote the official and by the state are recognized also minority languages (in those parts of Croatia they have status as a noted Italian in Istria, I can send you resources if you are not familiar) and that is in order with Wikipedia conventions, and by your standards also :) (if apply for a counties applies also to all lower levels?-although it is nowhere asked official status?). JCM with jurisdiction in the members municipalities has jurisdiction for the whole area of two counties and that's why I put other articles you mentioned. At the same time I do not think that the category is unnecessary, there are articles that perfectly fit into category and fits the theme of national minorities in Croatia. I absolutely do not want any edit war or something of that type with you. It would be unnecessary and will prevented us to deal with things that interest us. But I just do not believe that differences in attitudes that apparently there have the potential to cause major conflicts. Have a nice day. (I pasted the answer on my discussion to)--MirkoS18 (talk) 22:35, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Radio Borovo

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Sources

Just wanted to remind you to add reliable sources when writing about anything that has to do with history/historical events or numbers. If you can't remember where you got your past sources, you can use Google Scholar or Google Books (they can be great resources) or even news sites like Reuters for more current events. Regards. --Jesuislafete (talk) 02:14, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Non-free files in your user space

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Hello!

Hi! Well, i dont think that we have editors who are familliar with Serbian minority institutions and organizations in Croatia... While i can see a bit of the schools outside Serbia... Pozdrav! :) --WhiteWriter ^speaks 22:44, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Hvala, zapravo bi najveća pomoć bila da se neki već napisani članci pročitaju i da se gramatički dotjeraju. Ovde je i Index of Serbs of Croatia-related articles koji bi potencijalnim autorima mogao koristiti ukoliko bi znali za njega. U svakom slučaju hvala na pomoći.--MirkoS18 (talk) 22:57, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

minor edits

Hi there. Please don't mark edits such as this one as minor, because it's not a minor edit according to the guidelines at Help:Minor edit. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 14:59, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

sorry

Thanks for advice, I will read this guidance later and try to follow them.--MirkoS18 (talk) 15:11, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Once again, you made a slew of minor edits such as this one. Please don't do that - other index articles exist but aren't all linked back from their entries, esp. not through minor edits. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 18:44, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Template:WikiProject Nagorno-Karabakh Republic

I've deleted Template:WikiProject Nagorno-Karabakh Republic because the project already exists at Wikipedia:WikiProject Armenia/Nagorny-Karabakh Task Force. -- WOSlinker (talk) 23:33, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

.

It seemed to me that there is no because I have not been seen Project in the pages that I searched. I apologize for any inconvenience I caused by that.--MirkoS18 (talk) 23:40, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

renaming articles

You moved Jewish Filmfestival Zagreb to Zagreb Jewish Film Festival by creating a new article and redirecting the old article to it. Please don't do that, instead click the move page button. I fixed the specific case already, you don't have to do anything there, just do it properly in the future. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 09:22, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

B-class

Hi! I just noticed you have reassessed Joint Council of Municipalities article to B-class. According to the Wikipedia:WikiProject Croatia/Assessment the article fails at least B3 criterion (I haven't checked inline citations per AGF). This is easily remedied - expand the lead per WP:LEAD. Also, inline citations in the lead are not necessary as long as that information is in the body text and referenced properly.--Tomobe03 (talk) 16:24, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Your contributed article, Index of Serbs of Croatia-related articles

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Cyrillic county names

Moved to WT:CRO. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 15:08, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Regarding infobox changes

Hi Mirko, I noticed you added Cyrillic names to the lede of a large number of Croatian settlement articles, and I'm perfectly fine with that, but you also edited the infoboxes of several articles and added the Cyrillic names in there as well, which I find is too much. If I'm not mistaken, you used the infobox format that was established for bilingual Istrian municipalities. The names of those Istrian municipalities which list their name in two languages have been changed to reflect that (note that a reference to the municipality's official website is included in every one of those infoboxes [1][2]). The Cyrillic script is NOT official in any of the municipalities, nor do said municipalities have two hyphenated names.

In short, while the various language versions in the lede sentence are added whenever they exist, only the most common English name and the official native name (in the official native alphabet) are for the infobox. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 01:29, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

I added them after the discussion we had recently Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Croatia#Role of minority languages in seven municipalities in eastern Croatia where the Cyrillic is official (it really exist (; ). These are municipalities of Joint Council of Municipalities. Again, in those municipalities are in both languages ​​and both the names official. These changes were made ​​quite recently in September. If you believe that they should be removed may do so?--MirkoS18 (talk) 01:38, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Now I understand what you told me. So I delete the name from the top, and in the lower part I should add statute of municipality. OK, I will do it.--MirkoS18 (talk) 01:43, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, both the upper and the lower part of the infobox should not have any Cyrillic writing if the municipality itself does not use it in its statute in some way (and that, I believe, is not the case). --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 01:48, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

On the Internet you have a document entitled Izvješće o provođenju zakona o pravima nacionalnih manjina i o utrošku sredstava osiguranih u Državnom proračunu Republike Hrvatske za 2008. godinu za potrebe nacionalnih manjina (I do not know why it could not be put here). See pages 12-Jagodnjak, 14-Šodolovci, 15-Borovo, Markušica and 16-Negoslavci, Trpinja. I thought it is also Erdut but it seems it is not true.--MirkoS18 (talk) 02:06, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

The current situation (such as in Jagodnjak) is fine with me. Municipalities with a Serbian minority should definitely have their Cyrillic alphabet name mentioned in the lede. However, unless the statute of the municipality officially uses Cyrillic in some way at least - we should not use the Cyrillic name in the infobox. Regards --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 02:15, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Many many thanks Mirko, it is very nice from you :) I already participated in a couple of similar discussions in the past, so my intervention is not so unnexpected. I don´t think at all that you are making unclear statements, as you say, right on the oposite. Just notece that I agree with Direktor over the infobox issue, it should only be used if in official use, otherwise we should use it only in lede section. Honestly, I hoped we could reach some middle point between 10% and 33.3% as solution and move on, however I am not so sure anymore, and perhaps we should see how other similar cases are dealt (I noteced your post at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Geopolitical ethnic and religious conflicts‎ and lets hope more people express their view). FkpCascais (talk) 02:25, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Is the addition of Cyrillic alphabet versions in the lede brackets actually being disputed over there?! There are almost no Italians in Dalmatia yet virtually every single town has an Italian name in the lede brackets. Stick with 10%, even that's possibly too high. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 02:28, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Ma slažem se ja sa vama, samo što te općine srpski i definiraju kao službeni. Nije da ću gnjaviti i oko toga, ali evo vam link pa pogledajte za Erdut npr, [3], na dnu je dokument, a u njemu pogledajte kraj 5 i početak 6 stranice. Ove ostale se sve navode u dokumentu iz 2008., ali ga ne mogu otvoriti, možda ću naći dobar link pa ga zalijepim. Uglavnom, ako smatrate da bi drugačije rješenje moglo biti bolje ja neću inzistirati na ovome. Pozdrav, i nemojte da zamjerite zbog "našeg" jezika, jer mi je tako puno lakše.

Da, niko ne spori pitanje jezika i ime na Srpskom jeziku mora biti (i jest) spomenuto - ali ovde pricamo o alfabetu. Drugim rijecima ne treba prevoditi :). Gospodo, procitajte clanak Serbo-Croatian language - gotovo svi neutralni lingvisti se slazu: to su samo varijacije jedno te istog jezika. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 02:38, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

U redu, pristajem :). A sad ću te još jednom uputiti na isti dokument gdje ...piše na području Općine Erdut, pored hrvatskog jezika i latiničnog pisma, u službenoj uporabi srpski jezik i ćirilično pismo. To istina pokazuje i našu suludu želju da napravimo nekakve razlike, ali eto, tako nam zakon kaže. Inače, nazivi na ćirilici nalaze se u još dva od gore spomenutih mjesta pa ih odi ukloni pošto ja nemam duše za to.--MirkoS18 (talk) 02:43, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

He, he, he, direktor i ja se slazemo oko necega, pa mora da ce smak sveta :)))) Lepo kalendar Maja najavljuje 2012. godinu kao zadnju.

Da direktore, oni hoce da ga eliminisu skroz iz lede-a. A to sto je isti jezik nema veze, jer ono sto se stavlja je cirilica jer je u srpskom prvenstveno koriscen prema latinici. Mirko, sto se tice oficijalnog koriscenja, prava i to, samo bi trebalo da se odnosi na koriscenje u infoboxu. A u lede-u se cak i Latinski koristi, koji nije nigde oficijalan sigurno i nema procentazu govornika. Tu mogu da se ukljucuju nazivi iz istorijskih razloga recimo, stari nazivi, kao i nazivi koje koriste manjine. Cekaj Mirko, sta se slazes sa Direktorom? FkpCascais (talk) 02:47, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Vidim ja da se vi svi jako dobro slažete i tako to. Sa Direktorom sam do sada imao malo ali kvalitetnog kontakta, ali ako ovako nastavim sa vama još će ovo postati vrlo ugodno neformalno čavrljanje. Ma da dajte pogledajte još jednom šta vam rekoh, u statutima tih 7 općina se spominje i srpski i ćirilica kao službeni/oficijelni pa to možda i ide u info? Ili trebam ipak odustati kad kažem da sam odustao :D . Možda ovi na onoj stranici o sukobima ipak odluče da je najbolje rješenje srpskohrvatski pa smo svi zadovoljni :).--MirkoS18 (talk) 02:58, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Moram obojicu da vas razocaram, ali nema srpsko-hrvatski... Hteli, ne hteli ovde su ga svi podelili, i cak i bosanski i crnogoski. Ja sam dugo diskutovao u proslosti kako je sve to isti jezik, ali mi nije bilo prihvaceno. Cak sam dao argument da ako recimo jedan isti jezik govore recimo srbin i crnogorac, srbin ga naziva srpskim a crnogorac crnogorskim... Ili recimo, kad pravis prevod, sta uradis copy/paste jel, i to je to, kao, sad je na drugom jeziku? Mislim, znam da preterujem (imamo mozda jednu razlicitu rec po strani, mozda...), ali postoje bukvalno drugi jezici ciji su razliciti dijalekti vise razliciti nego recimo hrvatski i bosanski, ili bilo koji od ovih "nasih"...

U ovom problemu o kojem diskutujemo, srpski treba da ima pravo u odredjenim clancima da bude ukljuceno, i ono sto je ukljuceno je cirilica jer ima prioritet u srpskom jeziku nad latinicom, ali posto je srpski dvoazbucni, onda se stavlja template [] Error: {{Lang-xx}}: no text (help) a ne [] Error: {{Lang-xx}}: no text (help) jer bi ovaj drugi trebao obe verzije da ukljuci (i cirilicu i latinicu), i koristi se samo kada je verzija na latinici drugacija od naslova... Mozda nisam ovo dobro objasnio ali je ovo praksa generalno na vikipediji za srpski jezik.

Ako je srpski u zvanicnoj upotrebi pored hrvatskog u odredjenim mestima, onda bi trebalo i u infobox da se ukljuci. U sustini raspravljamo dve stvari, infobox, gde bi samo trebalo da se ukljuci u mestima u kojima ima priznat status, i lede, gde bi trebao da bude ukljucen u mestima sa prisutnom manjinom (10% je bilo sasvim OK). Sad shvatam da sam se mozda malo zaleteo u diskusiji tamo sto sam spominjao samo lede upotrebu... Spomenucu tamo ovo za infobox da bude jasnije. FkpCascais (talk) 03:30, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Ma da, jezik su raznorazne drzavne institucije i politicari zaista proglasili drugim jezicima, to je istina, cak bih rekao uz slaganje pucanstva - ali to je sve uglavnom nevazno. Nikoga vani nije nimalo briga sta kazu Balkanski politicari, Balkanski narod, cak ni Balkanski lingvisti, to jest, jedini stav koji je bitan je onaj vecine linvista, to jest vecine znanstvenika u tom polju (tzv. "consensus in the scientific community"). A oni su poprilicno jednoglasni: Srpski, Hrvatski, Bosanski i Crnogorski su cetiri sluzbena standarda bazirana na stokavskom dialektu jednog jezika, koji se najcesce zove Srpskohrvatski. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 19:51, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

A zašto u tom slučaju to ne koristimo bar na wikipediji. Ja bih vrlo rado pristao na taj prijdelog. Ipak, ako se takav prijedlog iz nekog razloga ne može/ne mogne usvojiti tada se planiram strogo držati toga da su to različiti jezici i kao takve ih i koristiti. Može li se taj prijedlog predložiti nekome ko nema veze sa našim lokalnim projektima na wikipediji jer će tu to biti razapeto i izbodeno glogovim kolcima?--MirkoS18 (talk) 21:11, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Ti si idealista, vidim :). To bi bilo vrlo tesko: cijeli Balkan se medusobno mrzi i podrzava odvojene jezike. Mozda malo manje u Srbiji jer vas ima toliko mnogo vise od ostalih da su se ostala tri jezika de facto proglasila da bi se diferencirali od Srpskog. Clanak Serbo-Croatian language je imao veliku srecu zato sto su se za njega interesirali mnogi neutralni useri koji rade na jezicnim clancima. Bio bi potreban ogroman angazman sa njihove strane, te participacija drugih neutralnih korisnika, da se takav jedan konsenzus donese (na recimo Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Languages), ali mozes ocekivati da ce se gotovo svaki korisnik sa Balkana protiviti tome (opet, pogotvo ne-Srbi). --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 21:18, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Sto se crnogorskog tice stvar nije toliko cista (ne mislim na "etnicki cista" direktore :) Crnogorski je proglasen kao jezik od strane crnogorske vlade (Djukanovic, naravno), ali jos uvek nije priznat na medjunarodnom nivou, i prema ISO kodu jos uvek se smatra kao dijalekt srpskog jezika. Naravno, odredjene crnogorske editore to ne interesuje, i masovno sire template (Montenegrin: x) na raznim clancima, a srpske editore mrzi da se time bakcu. Na crnogorskim fudbalskim clancima postoji sporazum da se koristi samo (Cyrillic:x) umesto (Montenegrin: x) ili (Serbian Cyrillic: x) kao privremeno resenje, iako je u sustini to srpska cirilica, mada postoji neki plan da se promene par slova cisto da bi kao bila drugacija azbuka i drugi jezik... FkpCascais (talk) 00:56, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Konačno sam pronašao dokument koji sam vam spominjao koji se može otvoriti. Pogledajte ga od 27. do 30. stranice gdje se spominju statuti onih 7 općina o kojim sam vam govorio Erdut,Jagodnjak,Markušica,Šodolovci,Borovo,Trpinja,Negoslavci. Evo ga [4]--MirkoS18 (talk) 01:16, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Tu je sve lepo objasnjeno. U tim opcinama srpski jezik, ukljucujuci i cirilicu i latinicu, (objasnjeno na 28. strani o Sibensko-Kninskoj zupaniji) ima ravnopravno pravo sa hrvatskim. U tim mestima naziv na cirilici ima pravo da se upise u infobox, kao i naravno u prvoj recenici u lede-u. Kazi mi samo, je si sve opcine procitao i proverio? FkpCascais (talk) 03:32, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Mirko, molim da ne siris okolo lazne izjave u vezi sa mojim stavovima [5]. Ja sam bio vrlo jasan od samog pocetka da se protivim nasilnom uguravanju cirilicnog oblika srpskog i hrvatskog imena spornih naselja u infoboxove, te je moj trenutni stav ne moze da bude doslijedniji nego sta jest. Imena tih naselja na srpskom jeziku su tu vec prisutna. Nacin na koji su talijanska imena prikazana u nekim naseljima nema veze sa ovim pitanjem jer ta naselja sluzbeno koriste dva oblika svog imena povezana crticom, sto nije slucaj u spornim naseljima sa odredenim postotkom srpske nacionalne manjine.

Molim te da shvatis da se promjene prikaza u infoboxima iskljucivo dogovaraju konsenzusom. Izvori sami po sebi ni u kojem slucaju ne prisiljavaju nikoga da nuzno pristane na tvoj format (kao sta gore insinuira Fkp). Ukoliko se zainteresirani korisnici (ili barem velika vecina) sloze sa tvojim prijedlogom, sve je u redu, medutim mora to biti jasno da ne mozes na silu progurati svoje predlozene promjene time da zapocnes WP:EDIT WAR na pola tuceta clanaka.

Time sto se protivim cirilicnoj transliteraciji u infoboxu, koju iskreno smatram pretjeranom, ja ne podrzavam IvanaOS ni bilo koga drugoga, nego se samo drzim svog inicijalnog stava. Sa druge strane, ja imam dojam da se zahtjevi sa vase strane kontinuirano povecavaju: prvo je pocetni tekst bio dosta, sada treba da budu dva alfabeta u infoboxu. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 14:02, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Ja ne širim nikakve lažne izjave, tvoji stavovi u raspravi nisu dovoljno jasni svim korisnicima. Jedini korisnik sa kojim trenutno imam problem je IvanOS koji je kao što možeš vidjeti obrisao sve ćirilične nazive zato što su oni valjda beskorisni ili takvo nešto. Inače isti je sve i započeo, pa na krivu adresu šalješ prijetnje. Svi ostali korisnici se slažu oko upotrebe ćiriličnih naziva i u infoboxu i u leadu svagdje gdje je jezik službeni. Jedino oko čega se ne slažemo jeste trebamo li korstiti i kako te nazive tamo gdje srpski jezik i ćirilično pismo (koje je izričito navedeno u statutima) treba biti korišteno u leadu u naseljima gdje srpski nije u službenoj upotrebi. Inače svi dokumenti se izdaju i na ćiriličnoj verziji u tim općinama.

Inače, ovo što ja radim nije nikakva novost već je to već prije dogovoreno kada smo prije par mjeseci razgovarali o tome. Dakle velika većina korisnika (osim tebe i IvanaOS-a) se slaže sa tim formatom.

Inače, nikakvi se zahtjevi ne povećavaju već se oni upravo suprotno tome umanjuju. Prvo je moj prijedlog bio da upišemo ime u lead svim naseljima sa značajnim postotkom manjine. Zatim se taj postotak povećao na bar 33.3%, zatim na bar 50%, a ja sam na kraju čak pristao da se koristi samo kod naselja gdje je jezik služben. Inače svagdje gdje je jezik služben (ne samo u istri) u infobox se već upisivao i manjinski naziv pa u tome nema ničega užasnoga i pretjeranoga. Taj se format znači već i prije (pa čak i sa tom ćirilicom) koristio i ja sam napravio maksimalan kompromis. Pogledaj malo o čemu pričamo (ne kritikujem te ali mi se čini da nisi baš dovoljno uključen i upućen).

Što se tiče prijetnji da ću biti kažnjen zato što uklanjam vandalske i cenzorske postuke spomenutog korisnika ja sam spreman snositi posljedice.

Сретан Божић (са малим закашњењем) и Нова Година. :D--MirkoS18 (talk) 17:58, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm not religious, but thank you :). --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 01:35, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Mirko, bio sam zauzet ovih dana pa me zato nije bilo. Daj mi malo vremena da vidim sta se desilo. Nema veze ako par dana prodje sa direktorovom voljom, jer je bitno kako ce na kraju izgledati. Pozdrav! FkpCascais (talk) 04:04, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Notice of discussion at the Administrators' Noticeboard

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 05:55, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Regarding this issue, please note that you are engaged in a slow-moving edit war across many articles; if you don't stop undoing other people's edits and accept whatever consensus emerges from the discussion you started, you'll end up blocked. Salvio ^{Let's talk about it!} 11:13, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

No worries, I have a lot of other things I can do. Greetings.--MirkoS18 (talk) 22:16, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

3RR

Break the rule 3RR ( [6] [7] [8]) List of active separatist movements in Europe --Sokac121 (talk) 20:46, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

I will be more careful, thank you for information. I got a warning because of that (it is good that I had not made ​​more than three times).--MirkoS18 (talk) 20:54, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of The position and status of Serbs in Croatia (Open letter)

The article The position and status of Serbs in Croatia (Open letter) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Lack of notability, insufficient amount of significant coverage, WP:NOTNEWSPAPER, WP:WHIM

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Jesuislafete (talk) 07:39, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

hi MirkoS18 thanks for your request re the debate on Serbian place names in Croatia. It is clearly a hotly debated topic. I find it quite hard to intervene, because my instinct as a minority rights activist (I work here Minority Rights Group International) is to support using the minority place names. (and by the way I am sitting here in East London, just 100 yards from here all the street names are signposted in English and Bengali...) But there is clearly also an issue of wikipedia etiquette and policies, which I am not an expert on at all.

It seems to me to be much less controversial to include the Cyrillic name in the individual articles for each locality. So I am surprised not to see it, for example, in the article on Ervenik, the muncipality with the 2nd hightest proportion of Serbs.

I think by the way, if a threshold is used to determine, in national minority policies, when a minority has reached a "significant" proportion of the population, as per Council of Europe minority rights conventions, it is often 20%. But why 20% - clearly it is arbitrary to a certain extent.

Spinach charm (talk) 11:16, 20 January 2012 (UTC)