Talk:Yemeni revolution

Yemeni Revolution

Since president Saleh resigned as president of Yemen shouldn't this be considered a revolution — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bernardini11 (talk • contribs) 15:55, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

No, revolution means " a fundamental change in power". Since new leader was vice-president since 1994, and also a former military officer, who said he will run in next elections, I wouldn't label this as a revolution. HeadlessMaster (talk) 18:25, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

No, Headless. Its a massive POV you are making. When Ben Ali flees to Saudi Arabia his buddy Ghannouchi takes over it, we call it government overthrown. When Mubarak steps down and his junta ally SCAF takes over it, we still call it government overthrown, although the protesters claims their protest is not over and 'Mubarak elements are still there in Egypt' or 'Tantawi acts like Mubarak' sentiments. In Libya, when Gaddafi was forced out from Tripoli at the late August, although he has not dead yet, his family is still around and Gaddafi loyalist still holds Bani Walid, Sabha and Sirte, still the majority of the sources called it government overthrown. So likewise if Saleh resigns, then its still consider overthrown although there will be a unity government because the opposition are expected to gain power too. Most importantly if the head or leader are being overthrown then we say its the government is being overthrown. Nonetheless we still follow the majority of the reliable sources anyway.

But I said Yemen is still NOT a revolution but with a different reason: There was no such official statement that Saleh has resigned as president. We cannot assume that because the GCC deal has expired in December 23 then we can say "Saleh has steps down already". We need to hear any of the Yemeni ruling leaders helps announce it. Until then, Uprising is still common to be used. 60.49.63.145 (talk) 05:07, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Look, I can be accused of many things, but not of pro-Saleh PoV. Some of my friends are active in Arab Spring (on the revolutionary side), so I, naturally, support them. The difference between Yemen and Tunisia or Egypt is that in Yemen, the high ranked members of the former regime are still wanting to stay in power, while in both Tunisia and Egypt, all high ranked military officers, political officials, etc. stated they won't run in the next elections. I would leave Libya aside (because it was not a revolution, but a foreign intervention, which eventually resulted in overthrowing of the government). HeadlessMaster (talk) 15:19, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Running in the elections doesnt mean that government wasnt overthrown. For example after 1989 revolutions in Central and Eastern Europe everywhere Communist Parties run in upcoming elections despite not changing their member structure. In Czechoslovakia government of national unity - opposition and Communist Party oversaw transition period till first elections similiary to Yemeni government of national unity. However my point is - government was formed by both opposition and coalition members, thus we have significant change in government. And since, despite initial informations, Saleh remained president, although only pro-forma with power handed to vice-president, officialy he is still president of country and thus we shouldn´t call it revolution yet. Changing Arab Spring article Yemeni section to government overthrown as in case of Tunisia, Egypt or Libya is ok but renaming the article from Uprising to Revolution should be postponed until officialy Saleh is out of power, in other words in February when presidential elections will take the place (and if they won´t be rigged Saleh has about 0 chance of winning it). EllsworthSK (talk) 02:09, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Then I think we should remain that situation in Yemen as "Sustained civil disorder...." in that Arab Spring article, for now. In my POV, I feel a bit weird to change into Government Overthrown but this article is still remain as Uprising, if given that the situation is as explosive like Tunisia and Egypt but not Libya. Besides, most reliable sources are still calling Ali Abdullah Saleh outgoing or agrees to step down but rarely used the word "ousted President Ali Abdullah Saleh" or "former President A.A. Saleh". Nonetheless let's wait until the February 21 elections then we might consider it again.

Remember one thing: "Transferring power ≠ Stepping down". Saleh had once transfer power to his VP Hadi at June 4 presidential palace attacks but he has never step down yet. Who knows before 2-21 Saleh will still grab back all his VP power and remain dictatorship again? In your opinion you all have already seen this kinda person.

PS: And Headless, just for your record, please don't simply calling me (or even think about it) accusing you without understand what I'm trying to tell you. Many people has once make mistakes, like for example attempt inserting non-NPOV statement into the Wiki articles, even I had done that many times too. I'm just trying to remind you something, as many people also remind me too not to use non-NPOV statements, and that I can't really call them accusing me, even if I WANT to. Dictator elements were still around even if the head of state steps down, but in the end we still call it Government Overthrown anyways. 60.49.63.145 (talk) 03:21, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Conflict escalates to 2011-2012 yemeni revolution: because this is a real revoltion in yemen an all the world call it revolution — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.139.5.45 (talk) 14:24, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Conflict escalates to civil war

If street battles continue some days more, the article should be renamed to "2011 Yemeni Civil War". Zarateman (talk) 07:32, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Provided WP:RS begin calling it a civil war, I agree. Right now they're saying it's "moving toward" civil war and not calling it a civil war as such. -Kudzu1 (talk) 09:12, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree if this continues a couple of more days it should be called a civil war. People today stated for a new york times reporter that it already is a civil war. EkoGraf (talk) 14:40, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Strong Support President and Prime Minister were injured in attacks on the presidential palace on Friday. Both government and opposition are now actively engaged in direct attacks on leaders of respective factions. Open attacks on command and control structure are characteristics of direct military conflict, not uprisings. Had attacks occurred between 2 sovereign countries, would amount to declaration of war. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.10.180.64 (talk) 15:42, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Support I support changing the name of the article to "Civil War" if the conflict continues in the next couple of days. Loro-rojo (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:36, 3 June 2011 (UTC).

I don't agree. I live in Yemen, Sana'a in particular and very near from the last clashes with Al-ahmar house. I can assure there is no civil war at all but in the end, you should take the optimum title according to the most reliable media. For example many of the Arabic media are calling that, "Yemeni youth revolution" and that was why we eventually took this title in Arabic Wikipedia.Almuhammedi (talk) 21:26, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Comment: What about "Yemeni Revolution"? He's just left for Saudi Arabia, and this is more like the Tunisian Revolution and Syrian Uprising meet Libya's Civil War. -- 92.4.54.144 (talk) 19:36, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

It's not a revolution unless the government leaves power. Saleh has designed his vice president, who is not an ally of the protest movement, as acting president. -Kudzu1 (talk) 00:10, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Weak Oppose (for now). Why go with American reporters? We need at least a thousand deaths to get this upgraded to an armed conflict. -- 92.4.104.137 (talk) 16:48, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Mild Support A civil war is when two major factions within a country are fighting each other over control of the country, like the current situation in Libya. An uprising is when a group of protestors and/or dissenters openly clash with the state police/military, but fail to overthrow the ruling government. —Terrence and Phillip 07:38, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

U.S. covert actions and South African weapons

The New York Times reported on June 9, 2011 that the Obama administration had stepped up covert military actions in the country in defense of the U.S.-allied government "clinging" to power. Meanwhile, in South Africa, parliamentary questions arose over South African-produced armoured vehicles in the possession of Yemeni rebels who defected from the military.

Dead link

During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

• http://www.forexyard.com/en/news/Brent-oil-tops-103-on-Egypt-violence-Yemen-2011-02-03T114224Z-UPDATE-6
  • In Domestic responses to the Egyptian Revolution of 2011 on 2011-03-17 13:21:50, Error: [Errno 10054] An existing connection was forcibly closed by the remote host
  • In 2011 Yemeni uprising on 2011-06-19 03:07:57, Error: [Errno 10054] An existing connection was forcibly closed by the remote host

--JeffGBot (talk) 03:08, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

The page is loading fine for me. Anyone else having problems with it? -Kudzu1 (talk) 09:11, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Should we mention this?

Reuters — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.13.225.109 (talk) 16:11, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Yemeni Revolution

Since president Saleh resigned as president of Yemen shouldn't this be considered a revolution — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bernardini11 (talk • contribs) 15:55, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

No, revolution means " a fundamental change in power". Since new leader was vice-president since 1994, and also a former military officer, who said he will run in next elections, I wouldn't label this as a revolution. HeadlessMaster (talk) 18:25, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

No, Headless. Its a massive POV you are making. When Ben Ali flees to Saudi Arabia his buddy Ghannouchi takes over it, we call it government overthrown. When Mubarak steps down and his junta ally SCAF takes over it, we still call it government overthrown, although the protesters claims their protest is not over and 'Mubarak elements are still there in Egypt' or 'Tantawi acts like Mubarak' sentiments. In Libya, when Gaddafi was forced out from Tripoli at the late August, although he has not dead yet, his family is still around and Gaddafi loyalist still holds Bani Walid, Sabha and Sirte, still the majority of the sources called it government overthrown. So likewise if Saleh resigns, then its still consider overthrown although there will be a unity government because the opposition are expected to gain power too. Most importantly if the head or leader are being overthrown then we say its the government is being overthrown. Nonetheless we still follow the majority of the reliable sources anyway.

But I said Yemen is still NOT a revolution but with a different reason: There was no such official statement that Saleh has resigned as president. We cannot assume that because the GCC deal has expired in December 23 then we can say "Saleh has steps down already". We need to hear any of the Yemeni ruling leaders helps announce it. Until then, Uprising is still common to be used. 60.49.63.145 (talk) 05:07, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Look, I can be accused of many things, but not of pro-Saleh PoV. Some of my friends are active in Arab Spring (on the revolutionary side), so I, naturally, support them. The difference between Yemen and Tunisia or Egypt is that in Yemen, the high ranked members of the former regime are still wanting to stay in power, while in both Tunisia and Egypt, all high ranked military officers, political officials, etc. stated they won't run in the next elections. I would leave Libya aside (because it was not a revolution, but a foreign intervention, which eventually resulted in overthrowing of the government). HeadlessMaster (talk) 15:19, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Running in the elections doesnt mean that government wasnt overthrown. For example after 1989 revolutions in Central and Eastern Europe everywhere Communist Parties run in upcoming elections despite not changing their member structure. In Czechoslovakia government of national unity - opposition and Communist Party oversaw transition period till first elections similiary to Yemeni government of national unity. However my point is - government was formed by both opposition and coalition members, thus we have significant change in government. And since, despite initial informations, Saleh remained president, although only pro-forma with power handed to vice-president, officialy he is still president of country and thus we shouldn´t call it revolution yet. Changing Arab Spring article Yemeni section to government overthrown as in case of Tunisia, Egypt or Libya is ok but renaming the article from Uprising to Revolution should be postponed until officialy Saleh is out of power, in other words in February when presidential elections will take the place (and if they won´t be rigged Saleh has about 0 chance of winning it). EllsworthSK (talk) 02:09, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Then I think we should remain that situation in Yemen as "Sustained civil disorder...." in that Arab Spring article, for now. In my POV, I feel a bit weird to change into Government Overthrown but this article is still remain as Uprising, if given that the situation is as explosive like Tunisia and Egypt but not Libya. Besides, most reliable sources are still calling Ali Abdullah Saleh outgoing or agrees to step down but rarely used the word "ousted President Ali Abdullah Saleh" or "former President A.A. Saleh". Nonetheless let's wait until the February 21 elections then we might consider it again.

Remember one thing: "Transferring power ≠ Stepping down". Saleh had once transfer power to his VP Hadi at June 4 presidential palace attacks but he has never step down yet. Who knows before 2-21 Saleh will still grab back all his VP power and remain dictatorship again? In your opinion you all have already seen this kinda person.

PS: And Headless, just for your record, please don't simply calling me (or even think about it) accusing you without understand what I'm trying to tell you. Many people has once make mistakes, like for example attempt inserting non-NPOV statement into the Wiki articles, even I had done that many times too. I'm just trying to remind you something, as many people also remind me too not to use non-NPOV statements, and that I can't really call them accusing me, even if I WANT to. Dictator elements were still around even if the head of state steps down, but in the end we still call it Government Overthrown anyways. 60.49.63.145 (talk) 03:21, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Conflict escalates to 2011-2012 yemeni revolution: because this is a real revoltion in yemen an all the world call it revolution — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.139.5.45 (talk) 14:22, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

First let me say that I'm happy that you're willing to discuss this on the talk page. You may well be right. However to add information to Wikipedia, we need it to be supported by a reasonable fraction of reliable sources. As things currently, the majority of sources are still reporting that he has left for the United States for medical treatment. While some sources are indeed speculating that your interpretation is correct, Wikipedia is not a newspaper, and when in doubt, it is better to wait until developments become clear. There are rumors that Saleh has found asylum in the United States, and rumors that he's sought refuge in Oman, and rumors that the army has attempted a coup, and will attempt one again. For now, the majority of sources indicate that he remains in power through families and cronies. There's no rush, things will become clear enough, and it's obvious that one way or another Saleh will be forced from power. There's no need to jump the gun.

By the way, I want you to know that I appreciate your efforts to improve Wikipedia, and I hope that you will decide to stay, and perhaps create an account.

Regards, Quintucket (talk) 18:16, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

User 89.139.5.45, please don't be hasty. I know its true that everybody is calling it revolution, but as long as their peaceful protests doesn't lead to the ouster of Saleh, Wikipedia cannot call it Revolution. It won't be apprioprate to call it revolution because the leader was not ousted, although the Yemenis claims that so. Its based on what is the final result, and as of this date where I'm gonna sign it soon, he was not overthrown yet.

But let say if the Yemeni Revolution wins, I was wondering if we could take out the 2011-2012 and instead named it as Yemeni Revolution? 60.49.63.145 (talk) 08:42, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

2012 Timeline

It seems that there has been little if any effort to update the timeline past December of last year. That will be probalamatic as it will take quite a bit of effort to find and type all that information and get references for the period of 1 January to todays date.Kspence92t (talk) 23:55, 1 february 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.207.38.161 (talk)

Then help us contribute this Yemeni uprising article. 60.49.62.66 (talk) 03:29, 2 February 2012 (UTC)