Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of fictional supercouples

List of fictional supercouples

List of fictional supercouples (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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This is just an WP:OR page, pure and simple. And don't be swayed by the supposed references. For one thing, magazine writers will use whatever term they think will sell their product. (Not to mention the suggestion that "super"heroes are part of "super"couples.) This appellation really needs some actual academic scholarship to reliably source the term. I won't dispute that the articles that are actually on couples who may be known as "supercouples" (listed under List of fictional supercouples#See also), may be fairly called this, and maybe a few night time soap stars from radio and/or television. But the rest, not so much. (And the lack of radio examples on the page would seem to confirm my concerns.) - jc37 03:17, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of supercouples. - jc37 03:35, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

• Delete as nominator. Keeping will just retain it as a constant OR magnet. - jc37 03:31, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

• Keep We have a definition of Supercouple, and it seems to be a widely used term. It should be possible to edit the page without original research if references are provided, even if the references aren't to peer-reviewed journals. Being an "OR-magnet" isn't a valid reason for deletion - plenty of legitimate topics from general relativity downwards attract OR. --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:53, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

  Actually, Supercouple appears to be a decent list page in its own right, giving a nice overview of the term and those it has been applied to. The nommed list page would seem to be merely duplicative of that page. And nowhere near as clear or useful to our readers. - jc37 21:18, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:14, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:14, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

• Comment That the list is rife with notices that reliable sources are used bodes ill for it. Things that are truly notable rarely tend to need to say so--or try to say so. Jclemens (talk) 16:37, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
• Keep. There is no WP:OR. Plain and simple. You should be swayed by the supposed references, because they aren't supposed. Yep, magazine writers will throw around the term "supercouple" (the intro notes that), but that does not diminish the reality that the term is validly applied to many couples. Further, this list is about fictional supercouples, so there aren't going to be any "radio examples" (like the nominator wishes), and it mostly features soap opera supercouples. It mostly features soap opera supercouples because the term is most prevalent in reference to soap opera characters and high-profile celebrities. It originated in the soap opera medium, where there does exist actual academic scholarship (or there wouldn't even be a supercouple article), and has only started to expand in other areas. And when used to refer soap opera couples, it is usually used correctly. As for superheroes being part of supercouples, they are if the sources say they are. What the nominator fails to grasp is that we go by WP:Verifiability here at Wikipedia. It doesn't matter if you think a couple is or isn't a supercouple. It matters if the sources call them one. We don't delete articles that are well-sourced because we don't agree with what sources say and because an article is a constant OR magnet. If that were the case (and, yes, I'm going to use WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS because it can be used properly), other lists such as Honorific nicknames in popular music would have been deleted; gooodness knows people kept trying to get it deleted. The Supercouple article is not a list page. It is a page defining and discussing the evolution of the term. It used to have some version of this list in the article and was split out, per WP:SPINOUT and Wikipedia:Writing about fiction#Summary style approach. And this list has been well-maintained since 2008. The only reason it has notices that reliable sources are used, as Jclemens points out, is because IP editors and newbie editors didn't seem to grasp that reliable sources are needed before they add a couple to this list and because these notes weren't having as much of an effect as hidden notes. The point is they don't serve to say "Please don't delete me, I'm reliably-sourced." They serve to say "You want a couple added? Then add them with a reliable source." 31.193.133.160 (talk) 17:28, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and most of the soap opera couples in the see also section aren't as notable as the ones on the main list. That's why they're in the see also section (no sources found calling them supercouples or at least not sufficient sources). 31.193.133.160 (talk) 18:08, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

• Delete both because of the WP:OR problems that will inevitably follow, and because lists like this are utterly pointless dead air. This is a precious notion that is the province of fan magazines and entertainment shows, not a serious subject for an encyclopedia. The term "supercouple" has no practical meaning, and that we have a definition is far from a compelling argument for this article. Rather, it's evidence we're already headed down a slippery slope into the realm of fan publishing. Least compelling is the argument about using sources that call couples "supercouples." We're trusting puff publications to set the standard for content in an encyclopedia? Even if they do rise to the level of WP:RS, and I doubt many do, where is the quality control? This is beneath us. --Drmargi (talk) 19:20, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

I believe that I should point out again that we don't delete articles because they have the possibility of attracting WP:OR. You assert the "WP:OR problems that will inevitably follow," but this disregards that this list has existed since 2008 with those WP:OR problems being taken care of every time and that "plenty of legitimate topics from general relativity downwards attract OR," like Colapeninsula said a little higher. There isn't a couple on this list lacking a source or reliable source. And, okay, "supercouple" is a subjective term, especially when in reference to non-soap opera couples. But so what? Anti-hero is a subjective term too, and yet we have List of fictional antiheroes. We have lists on various subjective terms, like Honorific nicknames in popular music, pointed out above. Criticizing the sources for not being mostly scholarly is ridiculous. This is a popular culture topic. It's just fine and dandy to use popular culture sources to source popular culture topics. As a television editor (I checked your contributions), you know this. Or at least you should. You don't see scholarly sources being needed for most television and film articles on Wikipedia, or anywhere else. Even so, this topic does have scholarly sources. Okay, most of those pertain to soap opera couples, but that is no reason to delete this list. If anything, it's more of a reason to retitle it as "List of soap opera supercouples." I don't see a thing that is "[l]east compelling" about "using sources that call couples 'supercouples.'" That's called following Wikipedia's WP:Verifiability policy and WP:Reliable sources guideline. I don't understand how having a list on fictional supercouples or an article documenting the term (a term covered in scholarly and popular press) is going "down a slippery slope into the realm of fan publishing" and is "beneath us." There is no "fan publishing" here. Sources included are authoritative soap opera magazines, high profile entertainment magazines such as Entertainment Weekly, People, etc., which means it's not like we're using blogs here or simply gossip trash. Covering this material is no more beneath us than covering the many other popular culture topics included on Wikipedia. Unless you happen to object to those too. 31.193.133.159 (talk) 02:49, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

• Pending - Everyone has a point. Even with inline citations, there is no way that they are supercouples. Nonetheless, this list must abandon table format and then must go for explains of how and why a source calls one couple a supercouple. One thing for sure: this list should not consist of only plot; see List of Tokyo Mew Mew characters and List of Friends characters. --George Ho (talk) 19:33, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

"Even with inline citations, there is no way that they are supercouples." So we should go off your opinion that none of these couples are supercouples, instead of the reliable sources calling them such and when it's obvious that some of the couples are supercouples? I see. So this AfD is all about opinion and throwing Wikipedia rationales, policies and guidelines out the window. 31.193.133.159 (talk) 02:49, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

• Delete. This is not a serious encyclopaedic subject. As Drmargi says, we cannot trust gossip columns and fan magazines to accurately determine if a given fictional couple is "super" or not. Their use of the word "supercouple" has more to do with style and character of prose than anything factual. — Mr. Stradivarius ^♫ 22:33, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Other than you, who says it's not a serious encyclopedic topic? Who says that a serious encyclopedic topic can't be a topic covering a popular culture term? Other aticles, some of which are WP:GA or WP:FA, disagree with you. And I'll reaffirm that I don't need to be pointed to WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, because this is exactly when it should be used. The rationales for deletion in this AfD make no sense: "Ooh, this article will attract WP:OR, so let's delete it. Ooh, we should delete it because I wouldn't call some of these couples supercouples, and therfore the term is too subjective to have a list, or maybe even an article, on." Geesh. One place this term hasn't been too subjective is soap opera. There are undisputed soap opera supercouples like Luke and Laura, and the basis of calling such couples supercouples is not about "style and character of prose than anything factual." 31.193.133.159 (talk) 02:49, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

• Keep. I see no reason to delete. Soap Opera Digest and other publications don't just list a supercouple for the sake of being a supercouple. They are usually long-standing couples from their said series or have made a cultural impact through their series, etc. I see no reason to delete such article. I contest the proposition of this deletion. _{MusicFreak7676} ^TALK! 22:36, 7 April 2012 (UTC)