Talk:Alice in Chains

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*Archive One

Genre discussion

I have removed the genre hard rock from the genres beacause due to the fact that both Grunge and heavy metal are sub-genres of hard rock, it make the page a bit redudent. I have also changed the description from hard rock to rock. Rock is more general, therby preferable. Johan Rachmaninov (talk) 02:55, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Should alternative metal be added to genres? 'cause it is one of there main genres. --61x62x61 (talk) 22:08, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

No, grunge and heavy metal work fine, since those are the main genres that the group is refered to as. And personally, I never found alternative metal to be that useful of a genre discripter anyway. Johan Rachmaninov (talk) 22:29, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Hard rock should be added. And actually, grunge should be removed. AIC was not grunge. They're from Seattle and they became big during the early 90s...that's where the comparisons to grunge start and end. --Endlessdan 16:24, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Even their official MySpace page states that they are grunge. I think that's reason enough to list it. [1] Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 16:30, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I'm not going to remove it. I realize the general concensus is that AIC is grunge, but they really are not. But that is a debate for a different forum. --Endlessdan 16:38, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Grunge, heavy metal... done. works fine. The Real Libs-speak politely 16:46, 2 September 2008 (\\

I strongly advocate that "Glam rock" or "Glam metal" should be added as the genre of the early years of the band. Anyone familiar with the history of the band and their early cannot dispute that they started as you fairly typical 80s style glam rock/metal band —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.211.18.71 (talk) 17:02, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

The main genre should not be rock. It should be grunge or heavy metal.Budtard (talk) 13:26, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Using the term "rock" in the article lead-in is never wrong. Grunge is rock, heavy metal is rock... they're all just forms of rock. And any good encyclopedia doesn't subjectively pigeonhole a subject right in the first line of an article. The Real Libs-speak politely 13:30, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

the genres in alice in chains realy seem to be clustering up so propose that we just move to heavy metal and grunge because the rest are just unnesisary. theirs no need for hard rock if we have heavy metal and no need for alternative metal if we have both heavy metal and grunge, grunge of course being a form of alternative rock —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.154.162.47 (talk) 15:06, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

the genres in alice in chains realy seem to be clustering up so propose that we just move to heavy metal and grunge because the rest are just unnesisary. theirs no need for hard rock if we have heavy metal and no need for alternative metal if we have both heavy metal and grunge, grunge of course being a form of alternative rock —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.154.162.47 (talk) 15:06, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Ah, for all your grunge/metal whatever arguing, you forgot their record breaking album/ep and also sap. Acoustic rock needs to be added 93.186.28.202 (talk) 23:06, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

i edited it so their is just Grunge and heavy metal because we dont need so many different genresFeedmyeyes (talk) 15:41, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Genre - discussion reopened

Self titled album is entirely sludge metal,more reminiscent of bands like Crowbar & Acid Bath.Even Black Gives Away to Blue is quite sludgy,more metal,less grunge.So,sludge metal definitely needs to be added. Metalvayne (talk) 13:19, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Do you have a source calling them "sludge metal"? "This" sounds like "that" is just original research. Sergecross73 msg me 14:35, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

It seems they have been labelled as Sludge metal,but I know this source is pretty weak as far as wiki regulation goes. http://yuforum.net/metal-rock-punk-music/alice-chains-2160/ Metalvayne (talk) 11:26, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

That source is more than just weak, it's unacceptable. Messageboard/forum posts are not reliable sources, as they violate WP:SPS. You'd need a far better source to include this genre... Sergecross73 msg me 17:01, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

"Sludge metal" is not a music genre. I worked in radio for years, and it was a common tactic of the PR reps to push the newest buzzword descriptors to set their bands apart from the others. So what the year before was an "industrial" band became "alternative grindcore", "techno" becomes "darkwave synth", and so on. Just stick to broader, legitimate categorizations and leave the "sludge" kind of terms to the body of the article when describing the sound. Tarc (talk) 12:54, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree, I've looked into it a little because Metalvayne keeps on pushing that, among some other obscure genre/descriptions, onto band articles, and it is not a widely used term at all. I'm not sure I'd even use it in the body of the article honestly, as it's been weeks and he hasn't been able to find a single RS connecting "sludge metal" and Alice in Chains. (Unless you just meant that last statement as a general point about more obscure terms. Then I'd agree.) Sergecross73 msg me 13:03, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

someone keeps removing alternative rock, that genre needs to stay since sap & jar of flies are both alternative rock albums, and the genre is even listed in the band's allmusic page — Preceding unsigned comment added by I call the big one bitey (talk • contribs) 01:34, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Image...

Why is there a new image up there?

The band is nothing without Layne Stayley.. hell it's his band

Get an old image with him in it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Motoko11 (talk • contribs) 14:09, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Adding A Management category to the template

Since the templates are protected, for music artists, is it possible to add another category for management companies similiar to the one for Labels? Ivygirl16 (talk) 17:29, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Also known as "Alice N' Chainz"

Should this really be here? I mean Alice in Chains isn't colloquially referred to as "Alice N' Chainz" in the manner that Led Zeppelin is known as "Led Zep". Alice N' Chainz was essentially a different band. I think this should be removed, but I thought I'd bring it up here first. Frvernchanezzz (talk) 09:23, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

No one opposes? Ok, I'll remove it. Please discuss here if you think it should be included. Frvernchanezzz (talk) 19:37, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

thank you for getting rid of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.6.156.17 (talk) 15:57, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

4th album

i heard there coming with something new this year (Seth4000 (talk) 17:13, 22 January 2009 (UTC)) Seth4000

Sales

I can't help but find the 14M/3M division of their sales between the U.S. and the rest of the world a bit strange, since most commonly, multi-platinum acts like Alice In Chains have a fairly even split. Look at Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Soundgarden, to name their cousins.Revan ltrl (talk) 12:19, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

It does seem strange, yes. But were they really all that popular outside the U.S? Out of those bands you mentioned, I hear their songs everyday on the radio, but never have I heard Alice in Chains being played. So maybe it's possible that their fanbase was/is mostly American, in the same way Oasis was pretty huge in the U.K, but never really got a strong foothold in America. 121.222.179.94 (talk) 06:41, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. Teen spirit is on everyday, and you'll here other nirvana pj and soundgarden songs on a few times a week, but in my life I've only ever seen would, check my brain and them bones ever be played on mtv 2, accumalating in about 10 plays altogether. Also, aic have only ever had 1 top 20 single in the uk, nirvana had 6 and pj and soundgarden had quite a lot. Given that after the us, the uk is the next biggest music market in the world, I expect that its very close to being right 93.186.28.202 (talk) 23:12, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

And still it suddenly turned out that they had indeed sold more outside the US... Revan (talk) 21:19, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Albums charting

should it be mentioned along side the fact that they had 2 number 1 albums that they also had several others in the top 10 (dirt, black gives way to blue, unplugged and other) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.154.151.53 (talk) 21:34, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Inactivity

I changed up the part in the third paragraph about the band's inactivity because it made it seem like that was all Layne's fault, which isn't true according to the other members. Jerry, Mike and Sean all seemed pretty candid about their own substance abuse in the book Grunge is Dead and that the reason for their inactivity was so they could all get healthy, not just Layne. Basically, Jerry said that Layne was the one who paid the ultimate price for what they were all messing around with and that it really wasn't all his fault they had two Number One albums and couldn't do much about them. Shaneymike (talk) 16:56, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Sweet Alice

I've started an article for Sweet Alice. Hope it meets Wiki standards. I do realize it may not be notable enough for an article but I figured it was worth a shot. Shaneymike (talk) 20:00, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

"Killing Yourself" music video

On the list of music videos, in the discography, the first one is Killing Yourself. But there's no mention to it anywhere else. I can't even find that video on the Alice in Chains official website or youtube. Neither in other web pages. Does that video even exist? I'd appreciate some links that show it or some references. By the way, that video isn't neither on Music Bank: The Videos —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.5.144.81 (talk) 02:18, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Alice N' Chains

Should we really have an Alice N' Chains article? I already mentioned this on that article's talk page, so to quote myself, "Usually the hair band days of Layne Staley are considered just the beginning of Alice in Chains, not a band of it's own. Take Rolling Stone for example: "Starting out as a fledgling glam-metal outfit," this suggests that this was just an early incarnation of the group." RG (talk) 23:07, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I would argue that the two are separate entities, albeit with similar (okay, practically the same) name(s). The band's membership, sound and setlist were quite different. Nonetheless, I think that Rolling Stone quote you mention actually refers to the early days of Alice in Chains proper (i.e., the latter band formed by Staley, Cantrell, Starr and Kinney, not the former with Staley and three other musicians,) who were themselves essentially born from the glam metal scene. I think that calling Alice N' Chainz/Chains (I've seen it spelled both ways) the beginning of Alice in Chains is misleading - in fact, the latter was a new band who later adopted a moniker similar to an old, disconnected project from one of the members. Colinclarksmith (talk) 02:34, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

The only real piece of evidence that I'll found that these were two separate acts was noisecreep, which really much (basically all the sources in the Alice 'N Chains article are youtube videos and blogs.) I think we'll need more editors input on this topic. RG (talk) 02:11, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, if you're on the hunt for evidence, I recommend the liner notes to the Music Bank boxed set, which seem to me to indicate that Alice in Chains in fact grew directly out of Cantrell, Starr and Kinney's group Diamond Lie upon Staley's joining and next adopted their moniker. I think that the years in the Wiki Alice in Chains article are a little clouded - references to 1986 might be what are confusing you, since Alice in Chains proper really began in 1987. Of course we should certainly see what other editors think about the subject. Colinclarksmith (talk) 02:26, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Here are a few other bits of 'evidence' that seem to me to support my read. I can't find an online version of the Music Bank liner notes, unfortunately. 1.) Diamond Lie press kit that cites Alice 'N Chains as a former band of Staley's and indicates Cantrell, Starr and Kinney as the band's other members, 2.) an article that mentions this press kit with some fan commentary, 3.) Some photos from pre-Alice in Chains days, including a chronology that supports my read. Again, I think these sources make clear that claims that Alice in Chains began as a glam metal band do not necessarily mean that this glam metal band was Alice 'N Chains - in fact, all of the musicians came directly out of the glam metal scene. Colinclarksmith (talk) 02:34, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Alice N' Chainz (Staley) and Diamond Lie (Cantell, Starr, & Kinney) were two bands at the music band who were sharing the same vocalist. Eventually they just merged and kept the Alice N' Chainz moniker for just a short bit before changing it. Burningclean _[speak] 02:45, 20 April 2010 (UTC

*Music Bank, not band. Burningclean _[speak] 02:46, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

If the majority of the folks weighing in on this decide to merge the Alice N' Chains article, I will respect their decision. I will have you know that we have articles for Malice and Easy Cure, which featured future members of The Cure. Of course that doesn't necessarily justify the existence of the Alice N' Chains article. I'm just throwing that out there in case you all aren't aware. Shaneymike (talk) 18:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

I know that I, for one, am less concerned with preserving the Alice N' Chains article than I am with guarding against the error of claiming that Alice in Chains is a continuation of Alice N' Chains. This would imply that the current Alice in Chains has no original members, etc. Colinclarksmith (talk) 20:25, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

The Alice N' Chains article originally focused strictly on the demos, hence it was called Alice in Chains demos. I changed to Alice N' Chains and added to it so that it also discusses the people that were involved. Shaneymike (talk) 14:39, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Lesson Learned page

can somebody make a wiki page for Lessons Learned?174.61.35.159 (talk) 22:06, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

DuVall is not a replacement for Staley

I would like to suggest one thing to whoever has been putting the articles together. As a fan of Alice in Chains as long as I can remember make sure you pay the proper respect to Layne Staley. Willam DuVall is NOT a replacement for Layne Staley if you did your research correctly, it was said they would never name anyone a fulltime replacement for Layne Staley, he's not even credited in the new album as lead singer, just vocalist. There will never be anyone who can replace Layne, even the band says so, so make sure you get it right. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.148.146.80 (talk) 05:47, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

1980s music groups

Alice in Chains never released anything in the '80s even though they formed in 1987. So stop putting them under the "1980s music groups" category. 38.118.23.20 (talk) 08:46, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

That is no reason for its removal. Please read Category:1980s music groups: "Musical groups active during the 1980s." - Nothing that states that this only applies to those that released an album. They formed in 1987, they played live shows and recorded demos (they began recording their debut album in 1989 as well I think) so they were active during the 80s. HrZ (talk) 10:49, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Main genre?

should it be alternative metal or heavy metal? because jerry's guitar playing is largely inspired by black sabbath's style of guitar playing, who are the blueprint for heavy metal music. [same goes for soundgarden who's playing sounds uncannily similar to sabbath] also it's been noted in many interviews that alice in chains main inspiration was black sabbath. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.32.220.148 (talk) 13:45, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Proposal for the addition of 'heavy metal' in the lead with 'rock' kept intact

As Alice in Chains are more often denoted as an important band in the history of metal music rather than 'alternative' or 'grunge',I'd like to propose for adding 'heavy metal' or simply 'metal' in the lead in the vein of their allmusic bio where they've been introduced as 'a definitive heavy metal band of early 90's'.I'd like to keep 'rock' intact as well.Thoughts? Bloomgloom talk 12:28, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Hey guys,please participate in discussion.It's frustrating to see not a single reply in 24 hours.Bloomgloom talk 14:50, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

I believe I had heavy metal listed in the lead when I originally wrote the article, so I'm fine with it. Burningclean _[speak] 18:02, 23 September 2012 (UTC)