Talk:Winter

WikiProject Time assessment rating comment

Want to help write or improve articles about Time? Join WikiProject Time or visit the Time Portal for a list of articles that need improving.
—Yamara ✉ 09:11, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

How is the Narnia Series relevent?

It says: See also The lion the witch and the Wardrobe. The reason given is that it was always winter, never christmas. Well, then instead, there should be a section about books that take place in the winter. I am deleting it.

untitled

I have removed a "see also" link to axial tilt and supplanted it with one to the more comprehensive article on seasons. -Smack 19:05, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

wado kai karate do

wado kai karate do

Apparently the Met Office was asked by another government department for an official definition of winter, expecting actual dates.

The answer "Winter begins when all the leaves have fallen off the trees and ends when the bulbs start growing again.

• Transfer to Wikijokes if desired.

Brainstorm

What sections should be included?

traditions (festivals, activities, etc.)

weather

plant/animal life?

What else?

lots of issues | leave me a message 01:15, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

winter as a metaphor and in arts, literature Junes 09:33, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

In some areas, winter is known to have psychological effects on people. Circeus 12:27, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

I've visited the university library yesterday, but I only managed to find a book on the ecology of winter, which I won't even attempt to write about. Books on the cultural/literary lore of Winter didn't turn up. I'm going again tommorow. Suggestions? lots of issues | leave me a message 19:49, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

How about the impact of winter on various cultures and areas? In just North America, winter in Wisconsin is very different from winter in Florida. Frankja 21:18, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Have we all heard of Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)? Mark Lewis 15:24, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

I have heard that winter in southern hemisphere is weaker than in northern, is it correct? What about some average temperatures? Also see hibernation. Samohyl Jan 19:49, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

What about exceptional winters, hot/cold, long/short. Also exceptional events (Winter of Discontent for example) during winter, the effect of winter on the economy (fuel etc).

Yes there certainly should be a section for "great winters" from the cold that quashed the '41 German campaign to the Winter of Discontent. Can anyone with science background start the animal/plant ecology sections? lots of issues | leave me a message 01:43, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

There should be a section dealing with mythological explanations of winter. It could start with the famous greek tale.. Live Forever 03:07, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

This article had a lot of potential but unfortunately it would have required us to track down disparate research to organize. If only there was already a book that covered all aspects of winter. lots of issues | leave me a message 21:59, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

A few more exceptional winters would be the blizzard in New York (1888) and the winter in 1812 that hurt Napolean. I'm going to start work on this tomorrow but please feel free to start it.--Banana04131 03:56, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

moved out contribution

" Another psycological view is also that due to not getting light and not letting the body shut down for the winter as it usually would do (due to humans not being able to hibernate very long and that we must get up for work, school, etc.) makes us all very crabby and unpleasant when we would prefer to sleep and cannot migrate down south for the winter all the time, but that when we do travel towards the equator in the winter, to say Hawaii and Mexico, we do feel happier, but that may partially be due to the fact that we get to travel." I felt this was just a restatement of the existing text. lots of issues | leave me a message 19:55, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

I've added to the section on Winter in the arts, but it needs more work. The reference to paintings showing the four seasons should be specific, not general.

From EB online:

" the name comes from an old Germanic word that means “time of water” and refers to the rain and snow of winter in middle and high latitudes." Mark Lewis 22:02, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Mythological explanations

I have added the section Mythological explanations of winter. However, I only know of the greek myth, so this section needs expanding. --Banana04131 17:18, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Added Indian myth about how all the seasons were made but removed all the parts non-specific to winter. Added link to full myth at bottom.--Banana04131 18:53, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

I've read elsewhere that the Persephone myth is actually about the drought of the *summer* season in Greece -- not winter. If this is verified, the mention of Persephone should be deleted -- or the common misconception that the story is about winter be noted.

Also "In Native American myth" is not acceptable -- there are hundreds of distinct cultures with different mythologies. This is almost a kind of racism, like mixing up Japanese and Chinese culture. Which specific Native American culture? (by anon user 66.81.220.46)

I'm pretty sure the Greek myth is accurate.

Further research makes me think the Zion tribe is where the myth originated. This may not be factual, but since it bothers you I will change it. --Banana04131 23:31, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

A few notes

The activities section was originally intended as a small list at the bottom. I like the short descriptions but I think they're a little cluttered looking. Any input?

Should there be an etymology section?

I'll keep checking this page so post some ideas.

Olleicua 23:33, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

I don't really see the need unless the etymology is different or interesting. --Banana04131 01:08, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Too many links

Hello, I'm new here, and I'm kind of afraid to take the liberty to make edits - as least for now. However, I have an observation to make: underlining every other word makes the text hard to read. I notice that some of the links are completely irrelevant to the subject: while it is acceptable that people might find interest in learning more on "seasons" I can't see what the links to various dates such as "December 21" have to offer.

Agree. The world ice should not be linked. --Banana04131 19:33, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

well ice i think is relevant but dates are a different issue. Many Wikipedia articles have dates and years linked. Whether or not this is good is a question of taste. However as I have found that overlinkage is more common I generally conform for the sake of standardization. Olleicua 22:28, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Mythological explanations changes

The paragraph that details a "Zion myth" is of dubious quality. "Zion" here refers to the Zion Natural History Organization, which has allowed, as is obvious from the link provided, for a myth to be copied from "Why the North Star Stands Still and other Stories" by William R. Palmer. I wished to remove the misleading paragraph entirely, which did not seem to fit in the article very well. However, this was reverted by Banana04131. As I am willing to compromise, and think edit wars are ridiculous, I have only changed the short paragraph by clarifying the initial words, as well as the link provided at the bottom of the article. "Zion myth" makes it sound like "Zion" is a religion or something equally substantial, which it apparently is not. (Zionism is something completely different, and about the Zion tribe, you do not seem sure either, Banana.) To state that the paragraph is from an uncertain Native American tribe seems to me to be the least confusing way to cite the myth, and its unencyclopedic reference... Eduardo_Cuellar

P.S. Stating "Native American myth" is not racist... It is as accurate as you can be when you DO NOT KNOW what tribe it came from! To have been racist would have been to be derogatory, by writing something like "According to some Indians...", etc. I myself am part Native American, so I hope you understand, Banana.

Bobsledding

Shouldn't bobsledding be listed under ice rather than snow activities? Andjam 02:47, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

I should think so. Of course, we haven't had cold weather and snow in like forever even though we live in Michigan, so I couldn't exactly say. Scorpionman 14:03, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Temperature scale

"(at least 10 degrees below zero)." Is this Celsius or Fahrenheit? Or Kelvin or Rankine (even though that would be impossible). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.106.16.105 (talk) 21:37, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Causes for seasons

The distance the Earth is from the Sun has no effect on the seasons. It is extremely misleading to begin the article saying that the distance affects temperature on Earth even though the article later refutes that point. Therefore, I deleted the first sentence of the first paragraph.

No effect? That's a big call. I can't find the reference ('later refutes') that you mention - presumably it's been deleted. Claiming without citation that the northern hemisphere winters are harsher purely because of landmass differences is a very big call. Consider that the orbit of earth around the sun is not centered on the sun - we're actually closer to the sun in January. Think about the implications of that for a mo'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Unclejedd (talk • contribs) 15:22, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Obviously distance has an effect, but it is a small effect, and is swamped by the main causes: angle, ocean currents and land mass (angle being the cause of the seasons and the other two being the main modifiers). Dbfirs 23:49, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Countries with Winter Season

I suggest that we add a table or a listing of countries that experience the winter season. This may further be classified into those countries with occasional snow fall like those in northern Africa and the Middle East.

I think all countries experience a winter in one form or another. Whether they have snowfall or freezing temperatures is irrelevent. Surely, the coolest time of year is winter. --IanUK

I think it'd be a heavy and pointless activity. Some countries (say within the tropics) could be argued as having two winters a year (if you define it as the sun declining). jedd (talk) 15:09, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

History behind the year starting in winter

Coming from the southern hemisphere the question has occurred to me of why, before calendars, the year was considered to start in winter. It doesn't appear to be a question that has occurred to anyone anwhere on the internet. Would it be one for modern psychologists or were there cultural/religious/astronomical reasons for the winter solstice being chosen over the summer solstice? Did the Chinese start their year in winter? What about the Mayans? - Diceman 18:38, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

It was originally because the Romans ran their Julian calendar from March through February. 1st = March, 2nd = April, 3rd = May, etc., 7th = September, 8th = October, 9th = November, 10th = December, 11th = January, 12th = February. Because March was the planting season, the year began then. Later, the first month became January since that was when consuls were elected. —Last Avenue [talk | contributions] 23:42, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

From Gregorian calendar#Beginning of the year:

Beginning of the year During the Middle Ages 1 January was given the name New Year's Day (or an equivalent name) in all Western European countries (those with predominantly Catholic populations), even while most of those countries began their numbered year on 25 December (the Nativity of Jesus), then 25 March (the Incarnation of Jesus), and even Easter, as in France. This name was the result of always displaying the months of the medieval calendar from January to December (in twelve columns containing 28 to 31 days each), just like the Romans did. Furthermore, all Western European countries (except for a few Italian states) shifted the first day of their numbered year to 1 January while they were still using the Julian calendar, before they adopted the Gregorian calendar, many during the sixteenth century. Eastern European countries (most of them with populations showing allegiance to the Orthodox Church) began their numbered year on 1 September (since about 988). The following list is partially based on Old Style and New Style Dates and The Change of New Year's Day.

You're falling into the same trap, why isn't 1 January in the middle of the northern hemisphere summer? That could explain something, as far as crops go (in temperate regions) the start of the year is in spring, and for agarian socities the busy part of the year would be over summer, with nothing to do in winter (although in urban societies winter is the busy part of the year and holidays are in summer). So the end of one year and the beginning of another would naturally fall in or near winter. But this is just supposition on my part and I haven't found any direct statements on the subject via google searches yet. Disappointingly the Mayans weren't in the southern hemisphere so all the calendars were invented in the northern hemisphere. - Diceman 15:23, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

How was the four seasons named ?

Does anyone know how the four seasons were named ? -- Wintersweet98

Insects in winter

Though I'm ignorant of the answer, it would improve the section regarding animals and plants to include something on how insects surive the winter (they obviously don't just all die or flee to my basement).

cheese mother?

In the mythological explainations of winter it states: 'In Greek mythology, Hades kidnapped Persephone to be his wife. Zeus ordered Hades to return her to Demeter, the goddess of the earth and her cheese mother.' When I tried to edit it out of the article, the word 'cheese' was not on the edit page. Could someone please do something about this or lock this article because of vandalising? Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.185.167.198 (talk) 19:33, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

Leanne Richards

Did someone throw the line "Some people such as Leanne Richards differ in their opinions. But they are wrong.", as a joke? I for one have no idea who Leanne Richards is. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.215.179.175 (talk) 20:08, 19 December 2006 (UTC).

Reverted vandalism.

Page has been changed to "sucks", reverted to the last real version. Twfowler 18:57, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Poorly Chosen Pictures

Winter isn't always about snow. Every single one of the pictures on that page implies winter is always snowy. What about a winter picture without snow - maybe showing a tree without leaves and gray clouds. Or a field with frost and mist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Monitorer (talk • contribs) 22:49, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

There should also be a picture of an mild winter day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.250.198.100 (talk) 19:32, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

• Meteorological winter is definately all about the snowfall. Perhaps winter holiday pictures would be appropriate, to simply draw away focus from precipitation and more into a greater sense of the passage of time which is what the overall project aims to do.

-Knowl -<(I am questing for Knowledge!) (talk) 07:43, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

I give you a frozen canal shot!--Its snowing in East Asia (talk) 10:14, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Meteorological winter

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Majority agree with merge. Merge done. -- P 1 9 9 • TALK 14:06, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

---

The bulk content of Meteorological winter should be moved here. Can all agree? Gabriel Kielland (talk) 07:35, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

• As the self-proclaimed adopter of this orphaned stub that I have been working on, I see no reason why it should not be assimilated into the main article. -Knowl -<(I am questing for Knowledge!) (talk) 07:40, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

• I found this article after a TV weatherman used the term. I'd hate to have sifted through an entire article covering the full scope of winter to find this little tidbit. Glad its here. David Fell (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:16, 1 March 2010 (UTC).
• I agree with merge. The content of "Meteorological winter" article is almost entirely here already. -- P 1 9 9 • TALK 14:06, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Winter of Discontent not a climatic event

I removed mention of the Winter of Discontent from the "exceptions" section. As far as I can tell, it had nothing to do with climate. According to the article here on Wikipedia, it was a social crisis that happened to take place during winter. If it indeed was caused by an especially unusual winter climate, we can put it back (with citation). Emmastaffron (talk) 10:10, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree, the Winter of Discontent was a politcal rebelion and strike wave against the goverment of Sir James Callaghan!--82.11.107.198 (talk) 10:20, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

common knowledge is not a reliable source

In medieval times the solstices were midsummer and midwinter. It doesn't seem this was some archaic and obscure use of the prefix mid-, but rather just the middle of summer and the middle of winter.

When one tries to discover when and how the solstices stopped being the middles of the seasons and became their beginnings, one eventually discovers

There is a widespread misconception in this country--which extends, I might note, to the makers of most calendars, dictionaries, and encyclopedias--that summer "officially" starts on the day of the summer solstice, June 21 or 22, which is the longest day of the year. Americans also believe (1) that there is some valid scientific reason for doing it that way, and (2) that everybody in the Northern Hemisphere does it that way, and always has.

None of these things is true. So far as I have been able to discover, no scientific or governmental body has ever formally declared that summer starts on the solstice. ...

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/161/is-it-true-summer-in-ireland-starts-may-1

This seems to be the last word on the subject. Certainly any statement that winter or summer "astronomically starts" on the solstice needs to quote an actual astronomer saying so. Foogus (talk) 15:18, 21 December 2008 (UTC) In Australia, every season starts on the 1st of the month (Dec, Mar, June, September. This is the logical time as it is before the coldest/shortest day, it has a small amount of lead in, and it takes a while to heat/cool the earth due to the oceans stealing/giving the heat and the currents taking it (from) elsewhere, like where its colder/hotter.This causes the equinoxes/soltices to be a bit ahead of the middle.21:46, 20 June 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.106.16.105 (talk)

In England (UK), meteorologists always state that "Winter" begins on December 1st, but in Ireland (and other Celtic areas), the start is even earlier (possibly influenced by the oceanic climate there). Like previous researchers, I have been unable to find out where the idea originated of winter starting on the solstice, though I can see that it makes more sense in a continental climate where the temperature lag is longer. I am already looking forward to signs of Spring next month! Dbfirs 23:05, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Clarification

All well and good, but the page still needed change. I know that the beginning of the month is the start of seasons in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa, and I suspect others, but I've only found a reference for Australia. I've changed the page accordingly. Would people who know the details please add references? Groogle (talk) 00:42, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Shortest days?

'If' The seasons start and end on solstices and equinoxes (debatable, see above "common knowledge...") But if they do, then Winter can't be the season with the shortest days. It would share that distinction with Autumn. 216.16.228.6 (talk) 16:37, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

I've changed this to "marked by" so that many in the USA (and some in the UK) can consider the solstice as the start of winter without being contradicted by the article. Dbfirs 22:55, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

North South divide

Quoting the article today: "Accumulations of snow and ice are mostly associated with winter in the Northern Hemisphere, due to the large land masses there."

Associated by whom? I associate the most ice with the southern hemisphere - and I can't be the only person to know that the vast majority of ice is on Antarctica. I think this is one of those 'Some people say ...' things.

Quoting again: "In the Southern Hemisphere, the more maritime climate and the relative lack of land south of 40°S makes the winters milder; thus, snow and ice are less common in inhabited regions of the Southern Hemisphere."

Snow and ice are less common in inhabited regions of the southern hemisphere because there's less inhabitable regions of the southern hemisphere? Come on. It could be argued that they're less inhabited because they're relatively recently colonised (compared and contrast Eurasia). And the claim that the southern winters are milder being down to just one factor - land mass - is a tad misleading. Especially absent citations, or a mention of the land-mass difference. Check my other edit on this page regarding distance from the sun through the year, for starters. If landmass is the deciding factor, then given land absorbs heat faster than water, how does that resolve with n/s winter/summer comparisons?

There's also some good oil at http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3405 talking about hemisphere disparities. They touch on the general north south heat entropy asymmetry, effects of oceanic currents on heat transfer, and so on. Of course, these guys are looking at things from a climate change perspective, but it's all climate science. jedd (talk) 15:49, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

The winters appear milder, because people live up higher in the northen hemisphere. In reality the winters are worse in the southern hemisphere, as the inreased distance from the sun. Currently during southern winters, the earth is at or near its furthest point from the sun, and then at summer, its closest. This makes the summers hotter and winters colder (excluding the deserts where its freezing at night and boiling during the day regardless). If you simply take the temperature difference between summer and winter in the one spot, the southern hemisphere will change more, if the distance from significant amounts of water is the same. Also to the person above, water has a higher specific heat capacity than most land. This means that although the oceans might not absorb the heat/or give it away as fast as land, it can absorb/give away more. Also during the winter, as the water is getting colder on the top, it will begin to sink, allowing warmer water to surface and give away heat. Land has to have the heat go all the way to the surface via conduction of heat, a much slower process.Black.jeff (talk) 22:00, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

The increased distance from the sun makes only a marginal difference. It is swamped by the much larger opposing effects of smaller landmass and ocean currents. Dbfirs 23:38, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Confusion or vandalism?

We seem to be getting a lot of vandalism on this page. One claim, though, may be confusion: that the solstice in the Southern Hemisphere is on 1 June and the official start of winter is 21 June. This is nonsense, of course, and I've reverted it. If anybody wants to change this again, please come up with some valid references. Groogle (talk) 07:45, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree. I've just removed the claim again. The differences are discussed fairly fully in the main article, so there is no need for the disputed claim in the introduction. Dbfirs 23:35, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Cold winters

I don't think 2009-10 has been an exceptionally cold winter, in fact much of it (so far) has been reasonably mild compared with winters of other years mentioned. Perhaps it is just that younger people don't remember "real winters"? Dbfirs 02:07, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

... (later) Others seem to think that it has been severe compared with the last twenty-five years, and it seems to have been widespread in the northern hemisphere, so I won't quibble further. Dbfirs 11:27, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

To winter in which country are you two referring? --TS 20:49, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Good point - I was trying to think globally, but failed (as seems usual for those of us brought up in the northern hemisphere). The article needs to specify the countries or continent for each of the claimed "bad" winters. Does anyone have sufficiently widespread knowledge of winters (or the time to research records in many countries) to correct the generalisations? I suppose that North America and Western Europe often share "bad" winters, but this will not always be the case. Dbfirs 08:42, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Not enough about global warming

In my opinion Brotherwatch (talk) 16:29, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Tropics

Isnt winter relavent in the Tropics as well? there are lower temperatures hence the rainy seasons and some tropical areas do occasionaly become a bit chilly in winters such as Townsville australia and miami. Refering only to the temperate areas is not very accurate.

I've moved your question to the end and given it a heading. Yes, some tropical areas may well refer to a winter season, but only because they adjoin temperate areas where winter is more clearly defined. The sub-tropics are part of the temperate (or tepid) zones. Tropical areas near the equator have two hot seasons (our spring and autumn) and two cooler seasons each year. Miami is in the northern temperate zone, but you have a valid point for Townsville (though technically their "winter" is the "dry season"). Dbfirs 21:10, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

But miami's climate is classified as a tropical monsoon climate

That's interesting, because it is not in the tropics, but artificial lines drawn on a globe seldom match the observed local climate. I see that Miami has its wet season in summer, not winter, so it does match areas further south in the true tropics. Does Miami call its dry season "Winter" just to match the rest of the USA? Dbfirs 17:43, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Miamis winter season is not only drier, but its cooler, temperatures on many occasions go down to 12-15 degrees centigrade, with a rarer 3-5 degrees above zero. Anyway im trying to point out that winter is also relevant to the tropics as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.228.226.146 (talk) 13:54, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

But Miami isn't in the tropics. It is in the "sub-tropics", part of the northern temperate zone, so it has a genuine temperate winter with cooler temperatures, even if the rainfall pattern is more typical of a tropical climate. Dbfirs 07:12, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

still, its official classification is tropical, and winter lows are rare as the majority of winter is actually quite warm. Geographically it is on the border of tropics/subtropics which begin at 23.5 lattitude of which miami is slightly north.

Anyway, many places which are even deeper within the tropics experience the milder subtropical climate due to other factors such as elevation. And in the case of townsville australia, the winters are cooler. So i really think it would be more appropriate to not only mention the temeperate zones in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.0.196.177 (talk) 16:14, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

As I said, Miami is not in the tropics, even if it has a tropical climate, and, from your description, it doesn't have much of a winter. I agree that places on the border between temperate and tropical regions may have some of the characteristics of both regions, and Townsville would be a good example of a tropical area that has more of the characteristics of temperate zones. Technically, it has a dry season rather than a winter, but it is so near the Tropic of Capricorn that the residents probably call the season "Winter". Do you have any references to confirm this? Dbfirs 19:21, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

climate statistics on wikipedia. But is it possible to mention winter in the article in relation to the tropics as well? i mean it would make the article more accurate — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.0.197.219 (talk) 11:48, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

The article is already accurate in claiming that the concept of winter is mainly defined for temperate zones, but I think it would be reasonable to mention that some places just within the tropics, and some places within the polar circles also use the term. The vast majority of the tropics definitely do not have a winter, but have two hotter periods in our spring and autumn, and two cooler periods in our winter and summer. I was not asking for climate statistics, but for references for your claim about usage. Dbfirs 15:51, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Symbolism

The symbolism of winter in this article mostly focuses on the negative, winter is also a time of solitude, tranquility and starting anew. WinterIsComing (talk) 01:26, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Winter in Scandinavia

the article, under `Period´, says that "in Scandinavia, the winter solstice is traditionally considered as midwinter, with the winter season beginning 1 November, on All Hallows, or Samhain. Winter ends and spring begins on Imbolc, or Candlemasd, which is 1 or 2 February" Are you guys sure of this? I was just wondering, because I live in Scandinavia, and I've never heard of it. I would normally consider winter to start December the 1th. and end January the 31th. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.93.43.123 (talk) 18:10, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Weird selection of pictures

Is the article full of pictures of places which normally aren't very wintry on purpose? 109.99.71.97 (talk)