Talk:Prison

Must be removed

"There were prisons used for detention in Jerusalem in Old Testament times, and the Bible details the imprisonment of Joseph in Egypt."

This extremely POV. The "Bible" is not a reliable source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.197.157.122 (talk) 02:45, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Does it really make sense to refer to Jerusalem as (Arabic) Quds in a sentence referring to the Old Testament?

"Levels of Security" template changed

The complaint regarding the section "Levels of Security" was that the only information it contained was a description of the security classes of the United States Bureau of Prisons and was therefore not an adequate world-view of the subject. I have changed the template to include a summary of classifications in general and a section describing the classification system in England and Wales. I have also changed the headers to allow for more countries to be represented in the list should they be added. If changes are unsatisfactory, feel free to modify/remove. Cwill151 (talk) 20:05, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Americanisation/Americanization of article

Although attempts have been made to give this article an international perspective, it is undoubtedly American in nature. Terms such as 'barbed tape', 'jail','corrections officer', 'prison ministry' and 'juvenile' are associated with the United States prison system, and do not necessarily reflect international usage. Too many images and too much space is also given to the US system. If a list and descriptions of categories of security levels are being included for the US and 'England' (Which should be 'England and Wales'), then why not add every other country in the world? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.28.102.198 (talk) 17:06, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

By international usage, the useful definition would be international Anglophone usage. Terms used in non-English languages wouldn't be reflected on here.

Also as per Wikipedia's MOS each article chooses a national variety of English to follow.

However in terms of describing prison practices and classification practices we should try to describe every country.

WhisperToMe (talk) 19:55, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Not entirely American. Canada uses terms indentical or very similar to those used in the article. --JeffJ (talk) 20:20, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

"Prison politics"

It would be an improvement if this article could be expanded by providing information from the perspective of the inmate or "lifer" convict, some information on what they go through day to day for instance, what they do to survive, prisoner etiquette, or in their words prison politics, if this could be properly sourced somehow of course.. I'm not sure if any scholarly studies or papers have been written on prison 'lifestyles' and such, but television series' such as National Geographic's Lockdown and MSNBC's Lockup would be great sources to cite for this information (at least for American prisons anyway), as well as many non-fiction books written by ex-cons. Although there are plenty of articles on the individual prisons themselves I've noticed Wikipedia is lacking in general on information surrounding prison life, prison gangs, etc. which isn't really surprising as this tends to be a very 'cagey' subject, (pardon the pun) :P -- œ^™ 04:39, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

ജ്ഞാനം, പരിശുദ്ധല്‍മവ്, സ്വര്‍ഗ്ഗങ്ങള്‍, സ്വര്‍ഗ്ഗാധി സ്വര്‍ഗ്ഗങ്ങള്‍. Wisdom - Holy Spirit and Heavens www.wisdomflowers.weebly.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.199.88.170 (talk) 20:54, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Agreed, but I'd be wary of some of the sources that you TV documentary sources that you cite and I'm not sure how they would be used in this article. There's bound to be a fair amount of academic sources on the subject of the prison experience - certainly I've read a few on the prisoners' sex lives. Presumaing that a range of authoritative material on general living conditions and attitudes could be sourced, this could then be used to structure any account and the interpolation of individual memoirs as illustrative of points established empirically could then be used. Might call for a different article, however. I'd propose creating one called Prisoners or such like.FiachraByrne 21:07, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

“Misdemeanants”

Persons convicted of misdemeanors (those punishable by fines and incarceration not more than 2 years/24 months) are NOT held in prison, but in county jails. The article should reflect this.174.25.42.71 (talk) 18:37, 29 November 2010 (UTC)A REDDSON

• That's according to US language usage. It may differ in other countries. Also remember that "jail" redirects to prison, so the article "prison" covers US prisons and US jails to a degree. WhisperToMe (talk) 18:17, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Correct, jail does direct here. But there is a US section, there should be a section on Jails. A jail is a diffrent penal institution.

Staffed by Deputy Sheriff's (usually) Less than one year commitment Pre trial Local juristiction (not state) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.198.119.68 (talk) 00:44, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Food

There's really no mention of the cafeteria in facilities, nor is there information on prison food. I would like to add the link to prison food, or a small section with a {{main|Prison food}} but I don't know where it would fit. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 19:38, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure where it would fit either but I think any such information on the actual experience of being a prisoner would be useful. It's difficult to do otherwise but I think it would be preferable not to just have an institutional account but something, at least, of an insider's account. It's telling that there's no individual article for "prisoner" on wikipedia.FiachraByrne 21:02, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I am astonished that there is no article called prisoner. I will start it immediately. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:19, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Okay. I've requested that Prison be moved over redirect to make way for it. I am starting the draft while waiting. It is located here. It should turn out to be a good portal to other sorts of prisoners. Please feel free to modify it. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:47, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Done! Prisoner is now an article. Thanks for pointing it out. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:08, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm not encouraging you to start another page but similarly there's no article for psychiatric/mental health patient. FiachraByrne 01:06, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

An entry on food could get a bit convoluted if we try to address specifics since food will vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction or even from jail to jail. In the Ontario provincial system, some facilities use "cook-chill" meals pre-prepared at one of the facilities. These are basically TV-dinners. Other facilities prepare food from scratch. And one jail used to have meals delivered from the restaurant across the street. One facility serves brunch on the weekends instead of a separate breakfast and lunch. And so on... --JeffJ (talk) 16:03, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

prisons holding pre trial inmates?

Uh, this doesn't apply in Florida at least...I've never heard of STATE prisons holding pre-trial inmates. KING OF WIKIPEDIA - GRIM LITTLEZ (talk) 04:35, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Fortunately, this is not an article about Florida state prisons, but a global article encompassing the world-view of prisons and, by extension, penitentiaries, correctional facilities, remand centres, detention centres, gaols, and jails. For a more specific article on the American penal system see Incarceration in the United States or even more specifically Florida Department of Corrections. --JeffJ (talk) 19:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

LOL come on obviously I know this isn't about Florida, however there is no source for the following: while prisons are state or federal facilities housing those awaiting trial on the state or federal level and convicted felons serving a term of more than one year. Um, for state I have never heard of this. Any source that indicates this? If there are then we should re-write the sentences to state that some prisons can and do house pre-trial inmates. My main concern is whether state does, as I know BOP does. KING OF WIKIPEDIA - GRIM LITTLEZ (talk) 19:53, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

I know that in New Jersey, at least one county jail holds pre-trial federal inmates under contract with the federal government. I believe there are actually two. I don't have a source handy so I can't put in the article; the reason I know about the one is the ultimate in "original research": I've been there myself. (Not as an inmate.) Neutron (talk) 20:00, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Let me add that I am not trying to argue this. I just feel that a re-write to be specific would suffice as I stated, plus a source. Yes, county jails can hold pre-trial fed inmates as did Pinellas County Jail with Buju Banton. However, people get too confused when it comes to incarceration. KING OF WIKIPEDIA - GRIM LITTLEZ (talk) 21:17, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Be Bold and make the edits. --JeffJ (talk) 15:47, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Imprisonment, Economic Inequality, and Poverty in America

Either the section "Population Statistics" (7) or "United States" (5.3.1) could be improved by adding a brief note on economic inequality. While these sections mention racial disparities within the U.S. prison population, there is no mention of America's incarceration population over-representing the nation’s economically destitute. Nevertheless, there is a large body of sociological literature addressing this issue. Popular books on this subject published in the last ten years include: Bruce Western’s “Punishment and Inequality in America” (2006), John Irwin’s “The Warehouse Prison: Disposal of the New Dangerous Class” (2005), Todd Clear’s “Imprisoning Communities: How Mass Incarceration Makes Disadvantaged Neighborhoods Worse” (2007), Jeffery Reiman and Paul Leighton’s “The Rich Get Richer and the Poor Get Prison: Ideology, Class, and Criminal Justice” (2010), and Loïc Wacquant’s “Punishing the Poor: The Neoliberal Government of Social Insecurity” (2009), all of which include an explicit discussion of economic status and class in addition to a conversation on race.

This page should mention how many prisoners and jail inmates in America lived below the federal poverty line at the time of their most recent arrest and/or parole violation. In “Punishing the Poor” (2009:98-9) Wacquant notes that two thirds of jail inmates live below “half of the federal poverty line.” However, this statistic does not include those in state and federal prisons, which accounts for more than half of the total incarceration population in America. I have spent a reasonable amount of time hunting for the number of state and federal prisoners who lived bellow the poverty line before their current imprisonment but I have not located such a statistic. It is possible that there exist third-party analyses of the Survey of Inmates in State Correctional Facilities and the Survey of Inmates in Federal Correctional Facilities (both of which are conducted by the Bureau of Justice Statistics) identifying the descriptive statistics on the number of prisoners living bellow the poverty line at the time just prior to their last admission into custody. If any fellow Wikipedians are aware of such a report, I highly recommend sharing a few key points on this page.

Joshseim (talk) 14:52, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

This sounds like it would more appropriate for United States incarceration rate or Incarceration in the United States. This article is about prisons, primarily as structures, not imprisonment and its related controversies. Keep in mind also that this is a global article. --JeffJ (talk) 16:19, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your input. I agree that such a discussion should be included on the entries you cite, but I am reluctant to agree that a conversation on economic inequality is more appropriate on those pages than this one. Imprisonment has long standing history of over-incarcerating the poor. This is fact, not controversy. A controversy might include a statement such as, “Imprisonment controls/regulates poverty.” I’m not requesting such a statement, even though I believe a brief citation of such an opinion and counter opinions would also be valuable for this page. Rather, I’m suggesting that this article more explicitly note a historical trend that is already somewhat implicit in the brief mention of debtor’s prisons and other subtopics. Also, your point on this article being “global” is well taken, but this trend is generalizable to other nations. Others’ expertise on the poor behind bars in other areas of the world would be excellent for this page. Lastly, I want to note that I find it peculiar that this article includes a couple of references to an overrepresentation of blacks behind bars in America but with no explicit reference to economic inequality. Racial inequality in the U.S. criminal justice system must include a discussion of class. I am concerned that readers may draw two invalid conclusions otherwise. First, some may assume that racial disparities among prisoners can be explained solely or primarily by racial discrimination in the criminal justice system (while discrimination is certainly an important explanatory variable, few scholars would agree that it is an exhaustive or even a primary cause). Second, some may conclude that racial disparities among prisoners can be explained by blacks being naturally more criminal that other races (while this may seem ridiculous to most, it is important to remember that Wikipedia reaches the masses, which includes pockets of the ignorant and misinformed). This article should note that many researchers conclude blacks are more likely to be imprisoned primarily because they are more likely to occupy the bottom rungs of the economy (in addition to other causes such as racial discrimination in the criminal justice system). These are simply suggestions, and I’m willing to discuss them further. I appreciate your response, but I’m unsatisfied with your argument. Joshseim (talk) 14:52, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Again: This article is about prisons, primarily as structures, not imprisonment and its related controversies. Since the subject matter deals with imprisonment/incarceration issues in the United States, why would you not want to include it in Incarceration in the United States?--JeffJ (talk) 18:10, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

I assume this is why a discussion of racial disparities has been removed from the page within the last 6 hours. I’m disappointed that this was the apparent solution. Your point is taken, but you are neglecting an important historical pattern that has shaped the so-called “structures” of prison throughout time. I encourage you to re-read my initial response. Such a discussion of poverty and imprisonment does not have to be, nor should it be, limited to the United States. Joshseim (talk) 20:31, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

I get it; It's an important historical pattern, and I've reread your comments, BUT AGAIN: This article is about prisons, primarily as structures, not imprisonment and its related (albeit factual) controversies. Since your subject matter deals with imprisonment/incarceration issues in the United States, it is not appropriate for this article and belongs in Incarceration in the United States or if you'd like to generalize the information, then the more global imprisonment article. I'm not sure if I can make all this any clearer to you. --JeffJ (talk) 21:18, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough. But now we're arguing about a dramatically re-worked page. Less than 24 hours ago this article included an explicit discussion of racial disparities. Shortly after I post my concern, it disappears.... Joshseim (talk) 23:53, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes. After you brought it to my attention I realized the article was deviating from its original scope and I deleted the content that was more appropriately covered in other main articles. I believe I was pretty clear about that in the edit summaries. --JeffJ (talk) 03:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Glattcelle — a part of the prison system of Norway

Photos of glattcelle are here [1].

What is the English name, or what should one call an article about the subject?--85.166.140.237 (talk) 11:09, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Globalize

The article (apart from the History section) discusses the topic solely in relation to the Anglo-Saxon world (United States, Ontario, England and Wales), and assumes a common-law jurisdiction (as in "A criminal suspect ... may be held on remand in prison if he is denied or unable to meet conditions of bail", which is meaningless in most of the world, where remanding suspects is quite possible but granting bail is an unknown concept). See also the section Americanisation/Americanization of article above on this page.  --Lambiam 09:36, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Well said. The problem is whether to try to globalize this article or direct readers to other articles that speak to non-global issues like bail, protective custody, etc. Off the top of my head (I'm still on my first coffee) I think it might be easier to restrict this article to prison as a structure and it's most basic use: to imprison. Anything beyond that (social, political, etc.) could be addressed in separate articles (sections might become too unwieldy) much like Incarceration in the United States. --JeffJ (talk) 14:16, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Vandalization of intro paragraph

I apologize in advance for not reading up enough on the proper etiquette, however I felt like this needed to be reported quickly. Glancing at this article tonight, I came across the following sentence in the intro paragraph:

A prison (from Old French prisoun)[1] is a place in which nigger people are physically confined and, usually, whipped, lashed, starved or another of a range of personal freedoms.:

Besides having a missing serial comma and sporting atrocious grammar, it is obviously biased, derogatory, and inflammatory. Since I'm a newbie, I won't attempt to fix it myself, but will trust the wider audience. Thanks! Yoyo.edit (talk) 05:33, 26 May 2012 (UTC)