Talk:Hans Asperger

Did they ever release Fritz V.'s entire name? Canadianism 21:01, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Did Asperger experience any difficulty with the authorities in Austria while carrying out his research ? Given the general enviornment in early 1940's Austria in which social attitudes to anyting that was percieved as a disability, disorder or even eccentric/nonconforming behaviour were (to put it mildly) intolerant it is hard to imagine how such research could have been undertaken in such a society ?

Involvement in Nazi T-4 program?

Hans Asperger worked in Nazi state hospitals during the 1930's, the time when the T-4 Euthanasia program to eliminate mental patients was in progress. Rumors based on biographies and personal notes of Hans Asperger spoke on his research on adults displayed "autistic" behaviors, was said related to the T-4 Euthanasia program. I wish to uncover the sources to prove this well-known theory that the Nazis hired Dr. Asperger to investigate mental/neurological disorders. It's well popular myth of other psychiatrists in the research field of autism like Bruno Bettelheim, although an Austrian Jew faced internment in Nazi concentration camps in 1938 was said to participated in the Nazi state hospitals, and Bettelheim was hired a camp doctor to serve Jewish prisoners. Bettelheim left Germany in 1941 to first Australia and in 1945 to the U.S. continued his research in autism and behavioral therapies of autistic adult patients. Now back to the question: Has Dr. Asperger took part in the Nazi T-4 program, even though not involved in any euthanasia? But his role in the Leipzig state hospital was to supervise and study mental patients in a way for Nazi officials to decide on matters...the value of their lives.--Mike D 26 07:29, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The commentary above seems founded on an extremely vague understanding of what euthanasia was in the Third Reich. The euthanasia decree was only issued in September 1939. It purported to be for the relief of the suffering of incurably ill people. The decree was withdrawn two years after it was issued. During that time only 70,000 instances of euthanasia occurred, less than one in one-thousand Germans. This is far, far too small a number to include all moderately retarded or moderately psychotic people in the population. Hadding (talk) 09:31, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I personally would be interested in knowing if Asperger's positive 1944 take on the societal role of people with high functioning autism could have been influenced at all by humanitarian objectives (e.g. reinforcing the social value of persons who might otherwise have been subject to prosecution at the hands of the Nazis).99.240.139.189 (talk) 05:25, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Unclear wording

"Her paper, Asperger's syndrome: a clinical account, was published in 1981 and it challenged the previously accepted model of autism presented by Leo Kanner in 1943. Unlike Kanner, his findings were ignored and disregarded in the English speaking world in his lifetime. His clinic was bombed during the war as well. Finally, from the early 1990s, his findings began to gain notice, and nowadays Asperger's Syndrome is recognized as a condition world wide."

Are they talking about another person here, or should the second pronoun be her? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 132.170.40.107 (talk) 20:09, 5 December 2006 (UTC).

Pronunciation

What is the correct pronunciation of Hans Asperger's name? Aardvark92 06:58, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

['as|pɛʀ|gɐ] or ['as|pɛʀ|gɛʀ]. I think. Whether the trill is uvular or alveolar depends on dialect. I suck at IPA... #29 ^(talk) 08:14, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

To hear a native German speaker pronounce Hans Asperger's name, go to How to pronounce Hans Asperger on Forvo.com Sparrowrose (talk) 02:53, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

If, seventy years after the period in question , no definitive proof has been found to verify Asperberg's participation in the T-4 program it may be time to put the question to rest-especially since he is long dead and cannot defend himself. The now discredited Bruno Bettelheim seems to left Germany in 1939, not 1941. It would curious indeed if he had been allowed to leave after the beginning of hostilities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.211.230.34 (talk) 04:05, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Asperger and Eugenics

The full relevant chapter can be accessed here: [1]
I would direct you to statements by Asperger such as those regarding "the transmission of sick genetic material," (p. 16) although it is worth bearing in mind that this work is very one sided (i.e., pro-Asperger) and other more critical works exist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.44.1.174 (talk) 13:34, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia editing is governed by policies and guidelines. One very important policy is Wikipedia:Verifiability. We report what cited reliable sources say. This is essentially what the source you're citing has to say on the matter of his affiliation with the Nazi Party. If you want to say something else, please find a recent biography of the man that refutes that position. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 15:32, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

The source used says exactly what was stated in the article. Also, it must be made clear that the fact Asperger was in the Hitler Youth is not in doubt; he was, yet it is his views towards it that are the only thing in question. Similarly, Asperger made eugenics statements; this too is not in doubt and is an established fact. Again, the source given makes this clear. I understand that you yourself might believe you have the syndrome named after this man, but try not to let it cloud your judgement or lead you to try to hide obvious and indisputable facts about the man's life. No one is saying that Asperger was a NAZI, simply that these links explain certain parts of his early views. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.197.127.207 (talk) 15:56, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Wow. How incredibly rude. As I said in an edit summary, I couldn't care less what the man's history is. I care about accurately representing our sources. You're claiming stuff here that is not supported by the sources you cite. Please stop making stuff up. Do a little actual work. Find sources that actually agree with the claims you're making. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 16:35, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

I am the only one here adding sources. You either read them and ignore them, or simply do not understand them. Stating that Asperger's diagnoses are currently accepted is an outright falsehood. Your edits in relation to his early life simply delete details you don't like, and make less sense to anyone reading the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.197.127.207 (talk) 16:57, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

The source [2] does not support the claims made for it. In particular note (regarding eugenics) the comments by Marc Bush on page 16, comments on page 11 making clear that his diary was critical of Nazism, later mentions of how he opposed eugenics (specifically wrt the syndrome), page 18 that he was never a "Nazi", and no connecting of Asperger to the "Hitler Youth" at all. The page 15 claim is that one person "fervently believed that Asperger has either been a member of Hitler Youth ..." which fails to meet the requirements for the claim made at all. Cheers. Collect (talk) 12:17, 4 April 2012 (UTC) Also note the source on page 15 states There seems to be no evidence of this whatsoever— indeed, the very opposite is more likely to be the case, as we shall see shortly. Connecting Asperger to Hitler and Naxis here is a nice example of source-misuse. Collect (talk) 12:20, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

By the way, I (who originally added this source) never even mentioned the term NAZI in the article; information regarding Asperger's use of eugenics early in his work was mentioned only. The term NAZI got added in later edits. This source fully acknowledges that Asperger did in fact make these eugenics statements, although upon re-reading it certainly muddies the waters regarding Asperger's participation in Hitler Youth (understandably, as it is a pro-Asperger syndrome source). Nevermind, other sources exist for this information. However I take exception to the charge of "source-misuse"; the source fully acknowledges eugenics related statements made by Asperger even while seeking to diminish and dismiss them—hardly a compelling argument. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.197.127.104 (talk) 13:07, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

I was going to retire from this page but I'll just answer this. Yes. Weinstein, p.15 says some critics have claimed that Asperger himself had affinities with the Nazis. But we do our best to reflect the current consensus, and in the little reading I've done on this question so far, I haven't encountered one author in the last thirty years defending Schopler's view, and I have seen numerous recitals of the position Weinstein takes. You'll need to demonstrate that Schopler's view was ever taken seriously, and how seriously it is taken now by scholars in the field, before we can determine if it's worth mentioning and, if so, how to characterise its degree of acceptance over time. Find a current reliable source that supports Schopler's view, or that throws light on its past and present degree of acceptance by the scholarly community, and we can adjust the weight we give to that view accordingly. Until then, we report the apparent current scholarly consensus as expressed by Weinstein, and which I think I captured quite well here. -Anthonyhcole (talk) 14:09, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you so much for bringing this book to the page, by the way. I enjoyed the chapter you posted above very much. I've always wanted to know the history of autism. In this conversation I said I'd like to write an article about the word, autism, as Bleuler and Kraepelin used it, and this text will be very helpful with that. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 15:08, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

No problem, I think the historical development of autism is poorly understood and is a major part of the nosological vaugeness regarding AS. This has lead to AS being little more than a catch-all for both individuals with high-functioning autism, as well as people raised in dysfunctional/unloving environments with—in all likelihood—no genetic etiology. The academic disarray in regards to AS renders it the most extreme example of this kind of confusion, rivaling only Dissociative identity disorder (that I know of at least). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.197.127.239 (talk) 18:06, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree with every word of that. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 19:12, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

'AP' ?

In this sentence in the first paragraph: "Both Asperger's original paediatric diagnosis of AP and the eponymous diagnosis of AS ...", the term 'AP' is never properly introduced and expanded. Fix please? 124.168.80.92 (talk) 06:48, 2 September 2013 (UTC)