Talk:Naveen Jain: Difference between revisions

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NPOV

So how about we start removing the pr and turn this into an encyclopedia article rather than a resume? --Ronz (talk) 15:32, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think first thing we should remove is notable rulings. It has undue weight and mostly about details of a lawsuit that Mr. Jain had as CEO. It was settled and dismissed. We should remove it or substantially trim it. Everything else is really about the person and we can work on it after this section is removed to see how it looks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.160.176.110 (talk) 15:41, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am going to start trimming the Notable Rulings Section a bit. I think 3rd paragraph has almost nothing to do with the person but just details of the proceedings of a lawsuit. RonZ, please don't undo these changes because of your own personal agenda. 173.160.176.110 (talk) 15:50, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please WP:FOC.

The paragraph is a bit long. The facts that is it was a continuation of previous lawsuits and went to SCOTUS are most certainly worth noting though. Some context is needed so we don't violate BLP. --Ronz (talk) 16:56, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As you may know, millions of lawsuits that go to appeal also go to SCOTUS. Almost all of them are rejected to be heard by SCOTUS just like this one. Irrespective, these are just procedural details of lawsuit unrelated to this person. You really seem to be very conflicted and must not like this person. Remember, this article is about a person and not details of lawsuit.173.160.176.110 (talk) 17:12, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I spent sometime reading up on this lawsuit and I am now ready to trim the first paragraph. It's way too long and puts undue weight to this lawsuit relating to the company and its CEO.166.147.88.46 (talk) 17:16, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have made the changes to make the lawsuit more concise and easier to understand. RonZ, please don't undo these changes and let's discuss them here. I know your whole life is focused on monitoring this page as is obvious from looking at the history. Please allow other editors to contribute and not take it over. Thanks.166.147.88.46 (talk) 17:25, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You have removed pertinent details about the ruling against Jain personally - the wikilinked judge, the amount, the "landmark" status. This is not an improvement to the article. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 18:21, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Adding some of the details back and still trying to make it understandable. Hope this is better.173.160.176.111 (talk) 13:07, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that the changes actually removed details and added redundancy. This article is rife with such problems. Let's not make it worse.

As for explaining the short swing rule, it think it's fine to add a bit. --Ronz (talk) 15:40, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We know you have a conflict of interest. Your assuming that other editors have similar bias just makes a case for banning you from editing these articles.

The only person with COI is you. You seem to have personal hatred for Mr. Jain. If you recall, you were warned by JIMBO sometime ago to not push your personal agenda on this article. You have tendency to ban everyone who disagrees with you personal bias.173.160.176.110 (talk) 17:22, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Saying something doesn't make it so. Jimbo was mistaken and violated some of our core policies in those mistakes. Very sad that. --Ronz (talk) 00:55, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As far as the content goes, it is well-sourced and worthy of note. --Ronz (talk) 17:17, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is a BLP. Well sourced content doesn't make the content related. You have always had a problem with lots of well sourced content if it's positive to Mr. Jain. 173.160.176.110 (talk) 17:24, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think you understand what you're writing. "This is a BLP. Well sourced content doesn't make the content related" makes no sense. Your continued need to make personal accusations doesn't help whatever point you might be trying to make. --Ronz (talk) 00:59, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

My mistake. What I was trying to say was that well sourced content doesn't make it relevant to the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.160.176.111 (talk) 01:26, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think introduction needed to provide few entities where is on the board rather than saying that he is on the board of many companies. It's like saying that person worked for many companies and did many things. 173.160.176.110 (talk) 16:00, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you think they belong there at all? --Ronz (talk) 16:56, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Because being on the board of an entity is a reflection of who the person is. Mr. Jain being on the board of Singularity and xprize means that this person cares about education, technology and making an impact. Being the director of the board is as important as founding a company. 173.160.176.110 (talk) 17:00, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your personal viewpoint. Given you have a conflict of interest, and are justifying your coi- and blp-violating edits with such personal viewpoints, I think we're going to have to block/ban you from this and related articles. --Ronz (talk) 17:09, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The only person with COI is you. You seem to have personal hatred for Mr. Jain. If you recall, you were warned by JIMBO sometime ago to not push your personal agenda on this article. You have tendency to ban everyone who disagrees with you personal bias.173.160.176.110 (talk) 17:21, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

So you want to deny your own coi, while using Jimbo's mistakes to attack me? Sorry, that you feel that this is appropriate behavior. It is not. --Ronz (talk) 00:59, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Have you seen your talk page and looked over WP:COI? --Ronz (talk) 16:07, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As far as resolving the NPOV problems here, I think a rewrite is in order. As I've brought up in the past, it would also be extremely helpful if we could find WP:GA's and WP:FA's about similar individuals to work from. I also also share some of the WP:BLP1E concerns brought up in the past, in that we need to be clear about what he is notable for, give proper weight to those aspects of his life, and ensure all other aspects are not given undue weight. Currently, the article is more a resume than an article that gives due weight to the most important aspects of his life. --Ronz (talk) 00:01, 19 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

So what's he notable for? Looking over the sources I'd say:

InfoSpace
The legal problems he and his companies (InfoSpace and, to a far lesser degree, Intelius) have been parties to.
Intelius/inome

While some of his philanthropy has gotten some independent press, it's worth mention, but I'm not seeing enough sources to say he's notable for it. --Ronz (talk) 01:10, 22 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

He is mostly know for

- Moon Express. See https://www.google.com/#q=naveen+jain+moon+express

- Innovation -https://www.google.com/#q=naveen+jain+innovation

- Philanthropy -https://www.google.com/#q=naveen+jain+philanthropy

- Singularity -naveen jain singularity

Lawsuit and rulings were in just local newspaper in Seattle. There has never been a mention of it in a single national credible newspaper. 166.137.191.27 (talk) 18:32, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Search results mean nothing. Reliable and independent sources count for something - ones that give considerable coverage count for much more.

"were in just local newspaper in Seattle" We're currently using sources that don't fit this representation. Besides the ones currently used there are articles like http://www.inc.com/magazine/20010701/22958.html - Note this article was released before all the items that we currently cover - proof indeed that we're not giving it enough weight and enough detail.

http://www.boston.com/business/markets/articles/2003/08/24/infospace_founder_to_pay_247m/ --Ronz (talk) 19:27, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Your same methodology proves you wrong, IP: [1] - lots of non-Seattle sources. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 22:32, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

TED links as sources

Such links are primary sources written for promotional purposes without fact checking. They simply don't belong. --Ronz (talk) 02:12, 21 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you about the information provided in the bio from the person but There is no reason not to mention that he was a TED speaker at the United Nations. Other information can be eliminated unless another source can be used to confirm it. I will make the change.70.103.74.91 (talk) 22:20, 21 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but that's improper use of a primary source in a BLP. --Ronz (talk) 22:44, 21 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

COIN discussion

I've started this discussion on some of the ip's that have been editing this article against a WP:COI. --Ronz (talk) 02:31, 22 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Archived here. --Ronz (talk) 23:22, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going ahead and requesting blocks of the blatant COI ip's that continue editing the article against BLP, NPOV, and COI. --Ronz (talk) 02:56, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Article semi-protected

The article has been protected once again from editing by ip's: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#COI_editing_at_Naveen_Jain_yet_again. If you want changes made to the article, please use this talk page to make the request and discuss the changes. {{edit semi-protected}} is recommended. --Ronz (talk) 16:54, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Confusion over someone with same last name

Naveen Jain was charged, in February 2014 with misdemeanor manslaughter charges for the vehicular killing of a cyclist, Joshua Alper, with his Tesla Model S on California Highway 1 in November of 2013. Jain claimed he fell asleep at the wheel blaming the new car fumes. ^[1]^[2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Efusco (talk • contribs) 14:05, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

References

Both references use the name "Navindra Jain" and have his age at 60 or 63. This is unlikely the subject of this article. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 14:15, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is not about Naveen Jain. --Ronz (talk) 01:36, 7 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

The lead summarizes the most important facets of a biography. Both TalentWise and WII have no Wikipedia articles and have lesser notability. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 17:21, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. I trimmed back the Forbes 400 info as well given it's no longer so notable, though his wealth is notable and it is a good introduction to that fact.

As far as inome and its holdings, there's so little written about it since the Intelius IPO was withdrawn for what appears to be the last time, that we're having a difficult time getting enough information to even make sense of all the reorganizing that's happened. --Ronz (talk) 20:07, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The TalentWise info is unsourced, so I've reverted per BLP. --Ronz (talk) 20:13, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

And I'm unable to find any non-primary sources about the The World Innovation Institute. The Economist article was just an announcement for their own "Ideas Economy: Innovation" conference, where Jain was a speaker. Intelius jumped on it as an opportunity for some press: [2][3]. If we cannot find better sources, we might just remove mention of The World Innovation Institute completely. --Ronz (talk) 20:45, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone ahead and requested the article be protected, since the ip's have still not joined the discussion. Seems to be a problem each year. --Ronz (talk) 15:59, 6 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Moon express

We need to give other editors a chance to build consensus without RonZ interference. I think this article need to focus on Moon Express which is the biggest achievement of Mr. Jain. See below links. Other things that need to be expanded are his involvement with xprize and Singularity University. RonZ's only cares about infospace and 10 years old baseless lawsuit.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101531789

http://news.discovery.com/space/history-of-space/javeen-nain-moon-111019.htm

http://www.nasa.gov/content/moon-express-completes-initial-flight-tests-at-nasas-kennedy-space-center/#.VOtoxlPF94Y

http://www.space.com/13615-moon-express-lunar-lander-naveen-jain-interview.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiki-expert-edit (talk • contribs) 16:23, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Can you try to WP:FOC? --Ronz (talk) 20:30, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Moon Express stuff might be expanded but sticking the existing sentence under a new header isn't expansion. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 20:35, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Could you give an example of what we might add relevant to Jain? I'm not seeing anything. --Ronz (talk) 20:57, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should make remove the lawsuit section because it has undue focus. Just read it yourself. It's 10 years old and baseless. Mr. Jain founded Moon Express that has gone to make history by being the first company to ever build a lunar lander and successfully testing it. See below quote from NASA.

"Moon Express is the first private company to build and operate a lander test vehicle at the Kennedy Space Center, and we look forward to working with them as they develop new U.S. capabilities to land on the moon." http://www.nasa.gov/content/moon-express-completes-initial-flight-tests-at-nasas-kennedy-space-center/#.VPY0z1PF84J

[1] ttp://www.ksbw.com/news/central-california/santa-cruz/santa-cruz-tesla-driver-who-killed-bicyclist-idd-will-face-charges/-/5738976/24311190/-/bh9ftp/-/index.html

[2] ttp://www.santacruzsentinel.com/santacruz/ci_25069553/santa-cruz-county-da-tesla-driver-be-charged

[1]

[2]