Talk:Hamdi Ulukaya

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Someone keeps writing that he is Kurdish-American. If we are talking about ethnicity, American should be excluded. If we are talking nationality, than it should be Turkish-American and visitors of the page shouldn't be allowed to change it. I think the best form would be Turkish-American businessmen of Kurdish descent, since Kurdish is not a nationality.--173.77.253.53 (talk) 07:00, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

That's right. Referenced web site( about richest people) is not a reliable source.--Kafkasmurat (talk) 10:47, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

"Nationality" has more than one meaning, and from a good Leninist perspective, "Kurd" is indeed a nationality, just as "Turk" is a nationality even for people who are not citizens of a Turkish state (Syrian Turks, German Turks, etc.) However, you are right that "nationality" is usually meant in the sense of "citizenship", and the use of "Kurdistan" rather than "Kurdish" is also troubling and inconsistent. In general this piece has too many references to Kurdish identity for a man who, as far as I know, has never mentioned his "Kurdish identity" at all in any context ever. In fact, in a speech where he was going on and on about his mother, he kept mentioning the Turkish language and Eastern Turkey. Also, he seems like a sleazy sexist capitalist, so Kurds should be glad to not be associated with him. I'm going through and deleting all unsourced references to Kurdish things, having already deleted a really ridiculous etymological thing about the word "çoban" (Kurdish: «şivan», so again, it seems he is advertising a Turkish, rather than Kurdish, identity, and before anyone brings up Zaza, it's «şiwane» in Zaza). The etymology of this word is very interesting, but it has nothing to do with the man's (unsourced and therefore possibly non-existent) Kurdish identity. It certainly has nothing to do with the yogurt.

Kurdish nationalism and Ulukaya

Please, Kurdish nationalists, is this man really going to be the source of your national pride? It is really so foolish. There are NO citations to him referencing his Kurdish identity that I can find, and the ones provided never mention the words "Kurd" or "Kurdish" or "Kurdistan" at all. Even worse, it was even claimed that "chobani" comes from the Kurdish (!) word for "shepherd". Do you even know Kurdish? Bi Kurdi em «şivan» dibêjin, «çoban» Tirkî ye. Tirkan ev peyv stand, ji zimanekî Êranî, lê ji Kurdî nayê. Ev mêr hişsivik û seksîst e, çima em ji wî ḧez bikin? Kapîtalîstekî qirêj e, lawo!

Notice how even when they subject is language he lists only Turkish and English: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHYABnK4Oho

There are many reliable sources pointing to his Kurdish ethnic background, I have provided one from Newsweek which mentions his Kurdish background in the first line (see below). This has nothing to do with nationalism. Now whether (as you claim) he is a dirty capitalist or not is irrelevant to the article. The only criteria for his inclusion in wikipedia is notability.

Hevalê hêja, tu kes ji we nexwestiye ku ji wî kesê hez bikin. Em li vir dixebitin ku ensaykilopedyayek çê bikin. Li gora çavkaniyên cuda cuda wesa diyare ku birêz Ulukaya kesayetiyekî navdare (notable) û kurde, ji ber vê yekê gotarek li ser wî hatiye nivîsandin, lê em behsa başî an qirêj ya wî nakin. Ev mijar tu pêwendiyek bi neteweperestiyê niye. Hûn dibêjin ku ew kurd niye, lê ji kerema xwe ev gotar ji Newsweek bixwîne ku kurdbûna wî piştrast dike:

Gross, Daniel (12 June 2013). "It's All Greek to Him: Chobani's Unlikely Success Story". Newsweek. (Turkish Kurd comes to the U.S. with $3,000 in his pocket...).

Niha li ser peyva çoban emê biseknin. Ev peyv ji çûpana farisî dêt [1]. Şeban peyveka dî ya farisî bi heman wateyê ye. Niha bi kurdî ev peyv dibe Şivan. Ew sê peyv hemî ji yek rehik û rîşe ne. Vekoler (talk) 22:03, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Nationality

Hamdi Ulukaya may (or may not) have Kurdish ethnicity. He considers himself a Turkish American. Those of you who can read Turkish please read the newspaper interview that I am linking here. Some sentences for the non-Turkish speakers: 1. "The Greeks here (in USA) get angry that a Turk makes better yoghurt." 2. (Referring to colleagues) "Other Turkish businessmen here." 3. (Asked about employing Turks in his business) "I will not hire you only because you're Turkish." Source: ( http://www.kigem.com/cope-attigi-firsat-hayatini-degistirdi.html ) Thank you. --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 07:22, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

Kurdish ethnicity means that Hamdi Ulukaya is a Kurdish. Stop spamming his page with your ultranationalism-kemalism thoughts.

If you look at other people Wikipedia pages, you will find, American, German, Russian not because of they have the nationality of countries because of their ethnicity. Gr, Feridun Akpinar, wishes a lot of "Pure-thinking". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.50.111.125 (talk) 13:15, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

I added your reply correctly. Look: First of all my or your opinion about nationality is not important for Wikipedia. Wikipedia functions per its own rules. Read WP:OPENPARA carefully and you will see that we do make a difference between nationality and ethnicity and avoid putting the latter in article leads. On the other hand WP is an encyclopedia based on reliable sources. Have a look at the article's sources please. There you will see information about his origins. Also see up in this discussion Mr.Ulukaya's own words about his nationality. I must remind you that if you continue to revert without reason or consensus you may be sanctioned. Thanks. --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 14:55, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

• Note to 86.50.111.125 and alternate account 86.50.111.163: You have now received warnings on your Talk page about edit-warring. If you continue to edit war you will be blocked from editing. Wikipedia policies have been explained to you, and Ulukaya's ethnicity is prominently mentioned twice in the article -- once in the intro and once in the first sentence of the body text. This is in accordance with Wikipedia policy. Please desist from your edit wars so that further action against you is not necessary. Thank you. Softlavender (talk) 00:35, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
• I think they decided to open a joint account, an SPA. --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 21:01, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

There's a growing consensus against including Turkish citizens of non-Turkish origin in articles like Turkish-Americans. If the definition of being Turkish is merely due to the fact that they just so happened to be citizens of Turkey, then why not add Armenians, Kurds, Assyrians to the Turkish people page? Isn't Abdullah Ocalan a Turkish citizen too? He's definitely more talked about than most of those Turks on the Turkish people infobox anyways. Étienne Dolet (talk) 07:15, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi Etienne. Place of birth and citizenship are facts, not matters of opinion or consensus. Ulukaya is a Turkish native and Turkish citizen who now has American citizenship. These are incontrovertible, easily verifiable facts. Thank you. Softlavender (talk) 07:52, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

I do not deny where Hamdi Ulukaya was born, nor do I deny his citizenship. But placing this man under a category of Turkish-American without an ounce of Turkish blood in him is just plain wrong. He's been placed in the infobox of the Turkish-American article just because he has Turkish citizenship. And whether Turkish citizenship merits the qualification of being Turkish is completely WP:OR. For one, this definition has not reached a definitive consensus. Therefore, I think a broader consensus involving the Wiki community is necessary. As of now, not only is the current definition WP:OR, but it also fails to align itself with the definition of what being Turkish means in the Turkish people article. Ultimately, the Turkish people article is the consensus. Anything outside of that is just plain WP:OR. As for my opinion, citizenship is far different than race. This means removing anyone from the infobox whose background is not Turkish (i.e. Daron Acemoglu, Hamdi Ulukaya). What's next? Should we add Gerard Depardieu to Russians in France page too? If citizenship means race, then we should add Abdullah Ocalan to the Turkish people infobox as well. Étienne Dolet (talk) 17:51, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

To repeat, place of birth and citizenship are facts, not WP:OR or matters of opinion or consensus. Ulukaya is a Turkish native and Turkish citizen who now has American citizenship. These are incontrovertible, easily verifiable facts. You are speaking of ethnicity, which is another matter. Softlavender (talk) 19:39, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Again, I am not denying his nationality or his place of birth. My question is simple: how can an ethnic Kurd be added to the Turkish-American infobox? Is it on the basis of his citizenship? If so, why not add Abdullah Ocalan to the Turkish people infobox there as well? Étienne Dolet (talk) 19:43, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Yes on Ulukaya in the Turkish American infobox. He is a Turkish American: a Turkish native and Turkish citizen who now has American citizenship. This Talk page is not the venue to discuss other articles. Also, when you post on Talk pages in the future, please make sure you properly indent your posts so that they nest properly indented under the post you are replying to -- you need to use one more colon than the post you are replying to. I have been fixing that in your posts on this page; please note that and follow the procedure yourself in the future. Thanks. Softlavender (talk) 20:02, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Stop vandalizing the page. He is Kurdish American, not Turkish.

Going by the logic of some people here, Abdullah Öcalan should be Turkish, and Saladin Arabic. All sources claim he's Kurdish, and so does Ulukaya himself. Sad attempt by Turkish nationalists here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeff350 (talk • contribs) 11:03, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi Jeff350. Place of birth and citizenship are facts, not matters of opinion or consensus. Ulukaya is a Turkish native and Turkish citizen who now has American citizenship. These are incontrovertible, easily verifiable facts. Thank you. Also, please remember to sign your talk page posts by typing four tildes: ~~~~ Thank you. Softlavender (talk) 11:07, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

When asked what if his nationality is Kurdish, Hamdi Ulukaya responded YES. This was four days ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O0B1ljy0KA Stop vandalizing the page, thank you. Jeff350 (talk) 11:18, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

No, he was asked, "You are ethnically a Kurd, born in Turkey, is that right?" Kurdish is his ethnicity, Turkish is his citizenship/nationality. The current Wikipedia opening sentence correctly states his nationality, and mentions his ethnicity in the paragraph below that and in the first sentence of the body text of the article. These are Wikipedia policies, and this article must abide by them. Please also remember to indent your talk page posts using colons, so that the conversation nests properly. Thank you. Softlavender (talk) 19:27, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

That's ridicilous. Atleast change it to a 'Turkish citizen with a Kurdish ethnicity' or something along those lines. Better yet; add a 'Ethnicity' section in the infobox. I really don't know why you're so obsessed with calling him Turkish when he himself says he's Kurdish. I've yet to see a Wiki page on a famous person listed with his citizenship as nationality. Jeff350 (talk) 20:27, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

You are mistaken, Jeff. He has always called himself Turkish. Also check the Google results: "hamdi ulukaya" "turkish" gets 17,900 results; "hamdi ulukaya" "kurdish" gets 3,290 results. In any case, Wikipedia policy dictates that the opening paragraph list nationality, not ethnicity. It states that "Ethnicity or sexuality should not generally be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability." In this case, since his notability is for his entrepreneurial success as the creator of and CEO of Chobani Greek Yogurt, his ethnicity does not have bearing on that. His ethnicity is mentioned prominently twice at the very beginning of the article, and that is sufficient and complies with Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Softlavender (talk) 20:47, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

If that's the case, then I propose adding Abdullah Ocalan to the Turkish people infobox. After all, he is a Turkish citizen right? Étienne Dolet (talk) 18:42, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

• Discuss it there please. (I imagine people will not compare a convicted terrorist with a successful businessman or professor who only rise the flag of Turkish Americans higher, just like Janet Akyüz. Try adding Gurgen Yanikyan to Armenian Americans.)--Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 19:54, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

But this isn't about his occupation, it's about his notability. There's dozens or so more Kurds and Armenians that can be added to that infobox on the basis of mere citizenship. Why not add them? Étienne Dolet (talk) 20:02, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Common name

We have a strained yoghurt article. Is the name correct? --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 20:05, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

You may take that up on that article's Talk page. Softlavender (talk) 20:07, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

As for this article, Chobani Greek Yogurt yields close to 250,000 results on Google. Chobani strained yogurt yields only 160. That's mean that the word "Greek" should remain on the basis of WP:COMMONNAME. Étienne Dolet (talk) 20:09, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Infobox

Per Template:Infobox person, I'm restoring the infobox nationality section to normality. The infobox is not a space for links to nationality laws of countries. If anyone has a question about that, please take your questions to Template talk:Infobox person. Thank you! Softlavender (talk) 02:50, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

From Template:Infobox person, under section nationality: "Nationality. May be used instead of citizenship (below) or vice versa in cases where any confusion could result. Should only be used with citizenship when they somehow differ. Do not use a flag template."

Therefore, it is correct to put nationality = Turkish and American instead of Turkish American. I am restoring in accordance with theTemplate:Infobox person. MaronitePride (talk) 17:50, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

No, his nationality is Turkish American. To repeat, the infobox is not a space for links to nationality laws of countries. If you have a question about that, please take your questions to Template talk:Infobox person. Thank you. Softlavender (talk) 21:05, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

To repeat, Turkish American does not specify if he is both Turkish and American citizen/national or American citizen/national with Turkish descent/birth certificate but not Turkish citizenship/nationality. And from the Template:Infobox person - "Nationality. May be used instead of citizenship (below) or vice versa in cases where any confusion could result. " MaronitePride (talk) 21:15, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

The "nationality" parameter in the infobox is not a space for links to the nationality laws of countries. Ulukaya's correctly stated and self-identified nationality is Turkish American, as he is a Turk who moved to the U.S. 20 years ago and never returned to Turkey; he has lived in the U.S. for the latter half of his life. If you want to include the links to the nationality laws of countries in the infobox, they should go in the citizenship parameter. His citizenship is strictly Turkish; he has not obtained U.S. citizenship, and has stated that in interviews. I realize you are new on Wikipedia and may be unfamiliar with infobox practices. That is why I suggest you verify this by inquiring on the Talk page of Infobox person. They will be happy to answer any questions that you have. Softlavender (talk) 21:51, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Many thanks that you read carefully my previous post and realized that I am new here, but regardless of that you went to report me even though we were in the middle of our talk.

By the way, I still have issues with the exact definition to include people within articles of the type Turkish American. 1) both Turkish and American citizen/national; 2) American citizen/national with Turkish descent/birth certificate but not Turkish citizenship/nationality; or 3) Turkish citizen/national with Turkish birth certificate but not American citizenship/nationality.

My question is: Since as you suggested Hamdi Ulukaya stated "His citizenship is strictly Turkish]; he has not obtained U.S. citizenship". Is it correct to include people from the abovementioned point 3 within articles of the type Turkish American? MaronitePride (talk) 22:54, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi MaronitePride, please remember to indent all paragraphs of your Talk page posts with colons to correctly nest your post under the post you are replying to (use Preview to make sure you have done so before you click Save); I have done that for your post above. To answer your questions: Yes, Hamdi identifies as an American, and more specifically a Turkish American. He is an American resident and has been so nearly all of his adult life and he has no intention of moving back to Turkey (or apparently even visiting). Softlavender (talk) 23:30, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the help with the paragraphs. Sorry for bothering you again but I have one more question. What about illegal migrants, like Mexicans, they are also American residents and also have no intention of moving back to Mexico (or even visiting, since crossing the border is a problem). Therefore, is it correct to be included within Mexican Americans, even though they do not have legal status? Thanks in advance. MaronitePride (talk) 00:33, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

You would have to raise your question and establish consensus on those Talk pages. If you are unfamiliar with Wikipedia standard practices in whatever concern, it's best not to be altering existing links/parameters, etc. You can always raise a question on an article's Talk page or a Template's talk page, but be sure to get consensus first before making any alterations -- do not mistake lack of reply for consensus or agreement. I hope that makes sense. Softlavender (talk) 00:43, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Nationality

Aotchi and Qozeqer, please stop changing the correct nationalities listed in this article and infobox. Ulukaya was born and raised in Turkey, and he immigrated to America. This makes him a Turkish American; he was and is a Turkish national who moved to the U.S. His ethnicity is Kurdish, and that is listed in the infobox, the intro, and in the body text of the article. Softlavender (talk) 02:10, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 April 2015

Please change 'Turkish American' to 'Kurdish American' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_American) Some references for this: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-2413095/Meet-Steve-Jobs-yoghurt-How-Kurdish-immigrant-billionaire-selling-Greek-yoghurt-Americans.html http://www.timesunion.com/business/article/Yogurt-king-aids-ISIS-victims-5812706.php http://www.kurdslist.org/community_news/147-chobani-founder-hamdi-ulukaya-kurdish-businessman-donates-2-million-for-2-million-in-humanitarian-aid-to-the-irc-the-unhcr-and-other 217.151.144.214 (talk) 15:20, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

 Not done. His nationality is Turkish-American. His ethnicity is Kurdish. Both are noted several times in the article. This has been discussed endlessly in the various threads above. Softlavender (talk) 23:58, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Then look here Turkish American: 'Turkish Americans are Americans with Turkish ancestry.' Regarding this article it doesn't makes him to an Turkish American, he hasn't Turkish ancestry, no way! He was born in Turkey, yes! Had Turkish nationality, yes. But no Turkish ancestry, this is not correct and is desinformation. He is Kurdish American as described. So what problems do you have with this edit? 'Turkish American' is not a nationality. You are Turkish or American, not Turkish American, there are no passports marked 'Turkish American'. Your arguments make no sense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.151.144.214 (talk) 11:09, 9 April 2015 (UTC)