Talk:Marzabotto massacre: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively

← Previous edit Next edit →

Content deleted Content added

VisualWikitext

Inline

Revision as of 16:24, 21 June 2015

Military history: European / German / World War II Start‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has not yet been checked against the criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar and style: not checked Supporting materials: not checked	To fill out this checklist, please add the following code to the template call: \| b1<!--Referencing and citation--> = <yes/no> \| b2<!--Coverage and accuracy --> = <yes/no> \| b3<!--Structure --> = <yes/no> \| b4<!--Grammar and style --> = <yes/no> \| b5<!--Supporting materials --> = <yes/no> assessing the article against each criterion.

Associated task forces:
/
	European military history task force
	German military history task force
	World War II task force

Germany Stub‑class Mid‑importance

	Germany portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany articles
Stub	This article has been rated as Stub-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Death C‑class Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath articles
C	This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Italy C‑class Mid‑importance

	Italy portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Italy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Italy on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ItalyWikipedia:WikiProject ItalyTemplate:WikiProject ItalyItaly articles
C	This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Untitled

why were they massacred? Saccerzd 21:40, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So many italians still are doing the same question: why? Basically it was in reprisal of the local support given to the resistance and partisan actions done in particular by the "Stella Rossa" partisan group. The germans were exhasted by the battles after the breakthrough of the gothic line. This gives you the idea of some sort of explanation, but the doesn't really explain why they killed in a barbarian way babies, women, kids, priests. I personally know a person which is still alive (at that time he was 2 years old) because his father came to pick him up away from his uncle (killed in the massacre) from Bologna with a stolen bike because he was feeling something bad was going to happen. "Why?" is still a good question. --Biopresto 13:10, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fact is, they weren't massacred. There was no "massacre in Marzabatto". There were however battles against partisans hiding dressed up as civilians. During the battle some civilians were killed, but is collateral damage of legitimate military action against partisans. The story as told with it fictional victim numbers is just propaganda by the Italian left. The partisans were Communists. --41.151.39.92 (talk) 10:08, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a particular reason to mention that 5 of the massacred were priests? How many of them were, say, carpenters, teachers, librarians, plumbers or car mechanics? Naphra 00:35, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I believe at the monument in Marzabotto that they include the number of the priests. It is also important because, at least among European and Christian society priests generally are not targeted and such in war when possible. Not that that always happens though. Italy is also a very Cahtolic country, even more so at the time, where the Church and priests are important within society. If a breakdown of victims by occupation can be found then put it in, but priests can be found as it is one that is important enough for the survivors themselves to include.

That's correct. In addition I would say that all men were not there since they were in the army: almost all the victims were children, women and old people. I think it is normal in most countries to consider church and priests not to be normally a target (especially while praying, as it happened).--Biopresto 21:20, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. Naphra 19:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Expert Required"?

The article is still very brief, but it has been modestly expanded since the {expert} tag was put into place last June. The leading problem at that time was the lack of context for the massacre: why did it happen? The article now (very briefly) covers this, and although the article is very much a stub and could certainly use expanding, I propose that the {expert} tag be deleted, as I cannot see what particularly calls for an expert. Mmccalpin 04:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How many people?

This makes no sense:

45 were less than 2-years-old, 110 were less than 10-years-old, 95 were less than 16-years-old

If, for example, 110 were less than 10 years old, that same 110 were also less than 16, thus the total under 16 cannot be 95. Whoever has access to the actual numbers should clean this up.

In one part of the article it very specifically says 955 people were massacred, in another it is vague and says "it is estimated that over 700 people...".

195.212.29.75 15:32, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If we consider the "official" Marzabotto massacre we are talking of people killed between 29/9 and 5/10 1944 in the communes of Marzabotto, Grizzana Morandi and Monzuno (Vado) by the hands of Walter Reider troups. The documentation center of the Parc reports today 770 people massacred; Walter Reder itself wrote a report registering the killing of 718 "bandits". --Biopresto 21:26, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

the "official" number of 1836 victims between civilians concerns all the people killed in the surroundings of Marzabotto in the same lapse of time, so, it's just a "bureaucratic" matter. By the way, it should be useful to correct the paragraph. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.27.205.146 (talk) 21:21, 12 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How is this a "battle"?

--Captain Obvious and his crime-fighting dog (talk) 13:41, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]