Talk:National Rally

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What makes them far right?

I don't really understand the definition for far right on Wiki as every European political party that is even remotely anti-globalization/massive immigration is labeled as far right on Wikipedia... the platform of the National Front is nothing like that of the Golden Dawn, or the Swedish Democrats, or even the BNP in Europe. Marine Le Pen would be seen as a feminist in America. Can someone explain to me how/who decides what qualifies as far right?

--Savakk (talk) 04:11, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Isolationism, Extreme-Conservtism, Nationalism and Anti-Globalization are just some of the things that makes the party a far right party. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.91.225.216 (talk) 17:31, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

That does not really seem like an accurate definition of far right. What really needs to be defined is: what is left and what is right. Far-right politics seems to point to what the previous user said. However, in the United States (where most of the English Wikipedia users are from), right is defined as favoring minimizing government. Therefore, the farthest right would be classified as anarchy while the farthest left would be some form communism. From there, it's easy to see how they would stand on any issue. Of course, it seems to be more limited than the definition the previous user provided but it makes much more sense. Why does anyone get to just say the left or right is everything they don't personally like? --2601:E:9580:261:92C9:650A:3395:392C (talk) 20:38, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

There are a number of references in the body of the article to the party being far right. I don't want to express an opinion on whether that is correct or not. However in the introduction the party is described as being "economically protectionist, socially conservative, and nationalist" - no reference to far right. And none of these elements is, itself, far right. Either the party is not far right, or the introduction needs amending.Royalcourtier (talk) 06:17, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

I have to agree here, I can't see anything that makes this party far right. Zenostar (talk) 17:44, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Silly Yanks, if you were informed about them to any limited degree then you would be aware that for the better part of their history they could easily be defined as 'far-right' in broad terms; this is clarified further when one considers the left-leaning history of France (most obviously espoused in the motto of the Republic) and thus popular right-wing causes (limits on immigration, concern for national identity and its preservation, govt. failures etc.) are relatively further from the political 'norm' or centre than in the anglophone west. They have softened their stance considerably in recent history, but their image is constantly shifting in whatever direction populism takes them. Also, the comment about most viewers of the English language version of Wikipedia hailing from the U.S.A. is eminently debatable, particularly in consideration of the disparity in pages printed in the English language when compared with any other (this can be viewed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias,) and is supported further when twinned with the fact that the most common second language is English, thus driving people of all nationalities toward these pages if the ones printed in their own are without an entry or inadequate. 5.81.167.137 (talk) 07:35, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Savakk: Interesting that you mention the Sweden Democrats. They have received heavy criticism in Sweden for their connections with the National Front, as the National Front is seen as a far-right political party with anti-Semitic roots. /EriFr (talk) 10:22, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

English Name

Although "National Front" is obviously the correct translation in English, it's far more common to refer to the party by their French name in the UK media these days. Most of the major UK publications seem to have this in their style guide now, examples here: | Guardian, | BBC, | Telegraph. Others like the Economist seem to use both terms interchangeably. Anecdotally I'd say English speaking academia also leans toward the French name more often than not, particularly in recent years, while French publications that have English versions mostly refer to it as Front National.

I wonder under the circumstances, given the Front National name and the abbreviation FN are used frequently throughout the article as it is, if there is a case for renaming it "Front National" instead of National Front. Certainly as someone who works in European politics in the UK using the term "National Front" - e.g. at an academic conference - tends to feel a bit outdated these days. You see that trend with other newer parties in European politics as well - for instance the BBC often refers to "Die Linke" in Germany (not "The Left") and "Podemos" in Spain (not "We Can"). Ultimately there are still some publications using "National Front" and others using "Front National" so there's a case for both, but I feel if we have to pick one then "Front National" is becoming the more common in publications that regularly deal with European politics and should probably take precedence. Lewdswap (talk) 11:25, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Right wing?

I do not consider economic measures such as nationalisations in the program of Front National match correctly under the traditional liberal-right wing spectrum. Should be revised. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.25.238.87 (talk) 21:36, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Most "reliable" sources don't know that they are no longer a far-right party, but Wikipedia policies require that we follow them. Xerxes ^(contact) 03:09, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

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"Far right"

It is clear that since the departure of Marine's father, the party has undergone a significant modernisation and sensitivisation which has pulled them away from the extremes of the right. Some sources even claim they are now centrist, such as that of The Populist Challenge: Political Protest and Ethno-nationalist Mobilization ... By Jens Rydgren (page 143) - it is now CLEAR that the label "far-right" is being used erroneously here in order to let some Wikipaedians have their own agenda with a small army of arbitrary news sources.

By the way, the first link takes to a European news site saying Front National formed a "far right group in the EU Parliament". That does not inherently mean that Front National is far-right itself, and the usage of the link as 'evidence/source' that FN is far-right is preposterous. The Ideology bar will be neutral and taken back to "right wing" where it is supposed to be, as their views are commonly identified with that of a right-wing party rather than a far-right party. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.19.126.221 (talk) 15:56, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

The information in question is well sourced and not exactly controversial. You can try to play semantic games but the sources do call that. Please stop removing sourced information. Volunteer Marek  16:08, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

front national will not be labeled as 'far-right' until you go to the conservative party UK wikipedia page and call them pro-slavery fascists with news sources from 1870 london papers. front national changed leadership and is not far right end of story — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.19.126.221 (talk) 13:45, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

How about mentioning that some still see it as far-right, while others see it for the modern, right wing party that it has (supposedly) become? I can find sources for both very easily. Just an idea. --109.69.249.37 (talk) 10:33, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Fair about far

Such usage as "far right" vitiates the integrity of an encyclopaedic entry. It is patently subjectivist and tendentious. Would the FN's adherents so describe themselves? Hardly! The correct and more neutral term would be simply "rightist" or "rightwing." If a majoity of people consider something to be "far right" then the writer has the option of citing it as such - as an opinion. In politics as in topology, farness is always a matter of perspective, and one man's extreme is another's norm, never mind that the "norm" itself is undergoing constant redefinition. Orthotox (talk) 22:06, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

I don't think that how the FN's members describe themselves matters a whit. What matters is reference to reliable sources. Most murderers will tell you that they are innocent, and we ignore them. We should be looking for an accurate term. "Right wing" is vague and covers too wide a range of the spectrum to be useful. "Far-right" is neutral. If we wrote "evil, baby-killing far-right", that would not be neutral. Ground Zero | t 18:46, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Seconded. Staszek Lem (talk) 19:01, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27404016 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.7.131.83 (talk) 07:31, 21 November 2015 (UTC)