Talk:Allen Hershkowitz

Requested edit 2

Hello, I would like to update/clarify the section in this article on the Green Sports Alliance with the text below. Please let me know if anything needs to be changed. Thank you!

The Green Sports Alliance got started in the late 2000s by major league sports teams and venues in the Pacific Northwest, with material and logistical support from the NRDC, with Hershkowitz leading the effort. Team and venue representatives, along with environmental experts including Hershkowitz, met informally to discuss how to improve their sustainability initiatives. The Green Sports Alliance formally launched in the spring of 2011. In 2014 Hershkowitz left the NRDC and became president of the GSA.

References

--— Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidbmuller (talk • contribs) 19:25, 28 August 2017 {UTC (UTC)}

The content you propose about H's involvement is unsupported by the two sources cited. Zero support.

I actually spent a lot of time looking for indpendent sources talking about the origin of the GSA and I cited the best two I could find - the mother jones piece and the Athletic Business piece.

Please see your talk page. Jytdog (talk) 19:44, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Requested edit 3

This article is currently inaccurate in saying that the Green Sports Alliance got started by team owners. The founding members were all represented by members of the teams' venue operations groups, and owners were not involved beyond granting approval. It also omits the NRDC's role (Hershkowitz, specifically) in convening the people and contributing foundational funding for the organization to get off the ground. This is what the 'About' section of the Green Sports Alliance's website reads: 'The Green Sports Alliance was conceived and founded by the Seattle Seahawks, Portland Trail Blazers, Seattle Sounders FC, Seattle Mariners, Seattle Storm, Vancouver Canucks and the Natural Resources Defense Council' (http://greensportsalliance.org/about/). Here are a couple of other reputable sources supporting the edit I am requesting: https://www.forbes.com/sites/csr/2011/03/24/the-green-league-csr-hits-pro-sports/#1110d9a51e42; https://www.greenbiz.com/news/2011/07/14/red-sox-chiefs-among-20-pro-teams-joining-green-sports-alliance; http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20110321&content_id=17053284&vkey=pr_sea&fext=.jsp&c_id=sea Davidbmuller (talk) 21:51, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

I would also like to add the following publications to the list in this article:

Bronx Ecology: Blueprint for a New Environmentalism, published by Island Press in 2002, and reviewed by the New York Times.

"How Garbage Could Meet its Maker", The Atlantic Monthly, June 1993, pp. 108-109.

References

Davidbmuller (talk) 22:27, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

What you wrote above it a mess. Please provide a concise, well-formatted, neutrally worded proposal for consideration. Please use independent reliable sources. If you don't understand what "independent, reliable sources" are, please ask. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 22:37, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

I will add here again that i spent a bunch of time looking into the actual origins of the GSA. It ~appears~ that it started in informal discussions among teams in the pacific northwest. There is this sense in the content that has been in this article and proposed for it, that some people want to claim that Hershkowitz was something like the Sole Driving Force for greening of sports, but if you read sources it was clear that this arose from a lot of places. it is very clear that Hershkowitz was a leader in all that, and maybe the most important one, but trying to put him at the roots of every movement toward greening is a bit... much. Please actually read the two sources used currently - they do not give NDRC nor Herkowitz credit for the very beginnings of the GSA - the informal discussions. Both of those pieces are remarkable for a) discussing both Hershkowitz/NDRC and the GSA; b) saying that that GSA originated in informal discussions; c) being from around the time that GSA came into being (so this is not retrospect but people talking about what was actually happening)

We can maybe say that NDRC was a founding member when the organization formalized in 2011. That is well-supported I think. Jytdog (talk) 22:51, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

The Fast Company piece also says "..the GSA is the 2009 brainchild of the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) and representatives from Vulcan, Paul Allen’s Seattle-based company. (Allen owns the Trail Blazers and the Seahawks and is a co-owner of the Sounders.)" It is unclear if this is separate from the informal meetings among management, along side it, or what. This is kind of murky. And I am being careful with it, because the sources are unclear and there is promotional pressure here. Jytdog (talk) 23:06, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. All I am really trying to clarify here is that the NRDC convened, or at the very least participated in, those original discussions that led to the formation of the GSA. That is reported in all the sources I cited above. Hershkowitz, who "ran the Sports Greening Initiative at the NRDC" (as reported currently in the article), was the principal actor from NRDC in these discussions. It is inaccurate to report that representatives of these teams came together solely of their own accord, and that they formed the Green Sports Alliance without involvement from independent environmental experts. The NRDC/Hershkowitz played this role, as reported by various sources. Davidbmuller (talk) 23:15, 28 August 2017 (UTC)