Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Drunken boxing: Difference between revisions

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Drunken boxing

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Queried speedy delete Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:19, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment while I can't verify that the page content is the same, I've listed the previous AfD on the topic above. power~enwiki (π, ν) 07:09, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. No valid reason given for deletion (the G4 doesn't appear to have any validity), and while the article may not be very good, there's enough in Google Books to show there's the basis for an article here. --Michig (talk) 07:12, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The main reason to delete in the previous discussion was that the term was a neologism based on the 1978 film Drunken Master, and it was a hoax to presume it existed beforehand. This is false; I found a reference in a text from 1959 on Google Book search: 其中有大家熟悉的长拳、太极拳、八卦掌,、也有初次在全国性比赛中出现的南拳和极其有趣的猴拳、醉拳、武松脱铐拳等。 (Among them are Changquan, Taijiquan and Baazhouzhang which are familiar to everyone. There are also Nanquan and the extremely interesting Monkey Fist, Drunken Fist, and Wu-shan Off-handcuffed Fist that first appeared in national competitions). power~enwiki (π, ν) 07:19, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: this seems to be very similar to the content deleted in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zui quan. Sandstein 07:54, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Doesn't look to have much similarity to me, unless I'm missing something. --Michig (talk) 16:07, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I wrote the article. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zui quan was deleted for being a hoax. At https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Do_not_create_hoaxes it says "A hoax is an attempt to trick an audience into believing that something false is real." This is not the case, because drunken boxing is an actual discipline practiced by people. I will add 1 more third party source (non-academic) within the next few days. Any other criticism welcome. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tomehr (talk • contribs) 08:31, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Happy holidays! ^{Babymissfortune} 09:19, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. Happy holidays! ^{Babymissfortune} 09:20, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Definately different from the deleted Zui quan article it suffers from the same problems although in this case it makes more attempt to clarify. Neither is a martial art, definately not a grouping of styles as claimed, at most forms within certain martial art styles. The article is full of original research and really stretches some points beyond belief (Combat and Combat sports sections specifically) The Zui quan article was deleted as a hoax because it represented itself as something it was not and this one, if it does not cross the line comes close. As it stands the article is in serious need of clean up and adherence to Mos. I also wonder about the multiple links to another AfD deleted article and the inclusion of Ripski in the external links. Is that attempting an end run around another AfD. The majority of references are self published - a few more reliable references would go a long way. We need to show notability not just existance. PRehse (talk) 21:10, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment PRehse, thank you for the detailed criticism. First off, I just want to say that the whole hoax/non-existence/lack of notability line of argument is misleading and irrefutable. As to your other points, the exact definition I used is "a group of loosely related kung fu styles" - you are welcome to offer an alternative definition. I honestly think drunken boxing is in some cases 'a martial art', especially in the case of Southern 8 immortals boxing. If a coherent argument is made to the contrary, I think it is reasonable to display this issue as an open question. As far as "stretching beyond belief", I added further detail to the Combat sports section, and will reference the Combat section to specific pages in some of the sources already noted in the article. The article currently has 1 academic source and I will add 1 more academic source. Tomehr

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 :<small class="delsort-notice">Note:  This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/China|list of China-related deletion discussions]]. Happy holidays! '''<sup>[[User:Babymissfortune|<span style="color:#552582;">Baby</span>]][[User talk:Babymissfortune|<span style="color:#061922;">miss</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Babymissfortune|<span style="color:#FDB927;">fortune</span>]]</sup>''' 09:20, 22 December 2017 (UTC)</small>
 *'''Comment'''  Definately different from the deleted Zui quan article it suffers from the same problems although in this case it makes more attempt to clarify.  Neither is a martial art, definately not a grouping of styles as claimed, at most forms within certain martial art styles.  The article is full of original research and really stretches some points beyond belief (Combat and Combat sports sections specifically)  The Zui quan article was deleted as a hoax because it represented itself as something it was not and this one, if it does not cross the line comes close.  As it stands the article is in serious need of clean up and adherence to Mos.  I also wonder about the multiple links to another AfD deleted article and the inclusion of Ripski in the external links.  Is that attempting an end run around another AfD. The majority of references are self published - a few more reliable references would go a long way.  We need to show notability not just existance. [[User:PRehse|PRehse]] ([[User talk:PRehse|talk]]) 21:10, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
-*'''Comment'''PRehse, thank you for the detailed criticism. First off, I just want to say that the whole hoax/non-existence/lack of notability line of argument is misleading and irrefutable. As to your other points, the exact definition I used is "a group of loosely related kung fu styles" - you are welcome to offer an alternative definition. I honestly think drunken boxing is in some cases 'a martial art', especially in the case of Southern 8 immortals boxing. If a coherent argument is made to the contrary, I think it is reasonable to display this issue as an open question. As far as "stretching beyond belief", I added further detail to the Combat sports section, and will reference the Combat section to specific pages in some of the sources already noted in the article. The article currently has 1 academic source and I will add 1 more academic source.  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Tomehr|Tomehr]] ([[User talk:Tomehr#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Tomehr|contribs]]) 08:11, 25 December 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+*'''Comment''' [[User:PRehse|PRehse]], thank you for the detailed criticism. First off, I just want to say that the whole hoax/non-existence/lack of notability line of argument is misleading and irrefutable. As to your other points, the exact definition I used is "a group of loosely related kung fu styles" - you are welcome to offer an alternative definition. I honestly think drunken boxing is in some cases 'a martial art', especially in the case of Southern 8 immortals boxing. If a coherent argument is made to the contrary, I think it is reasonable to display this issue as an open question. As far as "stretching beyond belief", I added further detail to the Combat sports section, and will reference the Combat section to specific pages in some of the sources already noted in the article. The article currently has 1 academic source and I will add 1 more academic source.  [[User:Tomehr|Tomehr]]