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Wikipedia:IGNORINGATD

Hi,

I've just come across this (how long has it been there? I don't think I've seen it before) and it seems a perfect explanation for how WP:NOTINHERITED does not apply to A7 (which is ironic seeing as it's also part of WP:ATA). However, as you've pointed out, WP:ATA is an essay (but let's be realistic, it's an essay in name only: most of it is treated as guideline or even policy) and only applies to XfD, not CSD. This would seem to be a loophole that can be exploited to CSD an article with merge/redirect targets without explaining why it shouldn't be merged or redirected instead. A7ing pages per WP:NOTINHERITED certainly seems to me like WP:IGNORINGATD (in spirit at least). I'm wondering if this could be worked into WP:CCSI? Adam9007 (talk) 01:00, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

I don't see the need. WP:ATD is part of WP:DEL, not WP:AFD, so it applies to any form of deletion and WP:CSD already contains the language Before nominating a page for speedy deletion, consider whether it could be improved, reduced to a stub, merged or redirected elsewhere, reverted to a better previous revision, or handled in some other way. If people ignore those policies, adding further information to an essay won't stop them. Also, CCSI is meant as a collection of common claims of significance or importance, not a general speedy or A7 essay. That's what for example WP:A7M is for which contains the advice already. Regards SoWhy 10:52, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Well, what I meant is that is WP:ATA only applies to XfD, and WP:IGNORINGATD is part of WP:ATA, people will think that it's okay to ignore WP:ATD at CSD or PROD (I know that is not the case, but it's what people will think). It may not stop people ignoring it, but it may raise awareness, which is never a bad thing surely? I mean, it's one thing to ignore it, but quite another (in my book at least) to say (or otherwise imply) that WP:ATD (or at least it applying to CSD) is something I've just made up (which, believe me, people have done). When it comes to deletion, the number of policies we have that are so in name only (sorry to say, but I think WP:ATD is one of them: far too often I see it simply ignored, both at CSD and at XfD, for it for genuinely be policy by our definition of the term) is astounding. Not everyone actually reads the policies and guidelines from beginning to end. Take WP:BLPPROD: the number of people I've had insisting it means no reliable sources, or that it does apply to non-biographies that happen to contain biographical content and the way they do it seriously make me question if they have actually read it at all. And when I point it out, they often try to make excuses, like saying another rule is more important (in the case of WP:BLPPROD, that other rule is usually WP:BLP. In the case of A7, it's usually a notability guideline (policy?) or a section thereof), and that by enforcing rule A, I'm breaking the more important rule B. Makes rule A kind of pointless doesn't it? Adam9007 (talk) 18:06, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

As I said, I understand your frustration. I just don't see how adding this to CCSI will change anything. Those people you mention will likely not be moved by any essay if they ignore policy already. Regards SoWhy 19:07, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Hi, In editing the page for Golden Lotus (musical) I found a lot of written sources referencing George Chiang and his works. Please allow me to edit the page for George Chiang with sources for his acting, musical and book. Would you also please allow me to edit the page for his book The Railroad Adventures of Chen Sing as I found a few other written sources that weren't on the Wikipedia article for it earlier. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by John99Wick (talk • contribs) 00:44, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Here are some sources I found on George Chiang that I can include regarding his acting career. There are more as he has a lot of credits and it will take time to uncover them but here are a few articles I found : http://nowtoronto.pressreader.com/now-magazine/19930114, Railroad Direct, NOW Magazine, January 14, 1993 http://nowtoronto.pressreader.com/now-magazine/19931021, Donnelleys Dynamite, NOW Magazine, October 21, 1993 "A theatrical bat out of hell". Toronto Star, October 14, 1993. There are more articles about his acting and I will find them and added if given the chance.

There were several more articles more from his musical Golden Lotus that I already added to the Golden Lotus (musical) article you allowed me to work on that I would also include. Unlike BearTalk says most of those sources are very reputable. The Facebook posts are posts of articles that were from solid sources but no longer online. I used them as links so you can see the actual article as opposed to just writing when and were it was printed. if the links are not suitable I can take them down but I should still site the sources. The articles from The Standard, Sing Pao, and Weipao are very credible sources in Hong Kong. The former is the top English language newspaper in Hong Kong. the other two are two of the top if not THE top Chinese dailies in Hong Kong. In my opinion Maddbuzz is also a credible source and I found an additional one that I added to the Golden Lotus article

I found another article about his book The Railroad Adventures of Chen Sing that sites the book award and discusses that book https://www.keremeosreview.com/news/award-winning-book-inspired-by-cawton-mans-stories/ I also found a new review: https://readersfavorite.com/book-review/the-railroad-adventures-of-chen-sing And the book won another award recently. I think just last week or the week before: A Readerkid Views 2018 Reviewers Choice Award http://readerviews.com/2017-2018-literary-award-winners http://readerviewskids.com/reviewchiangtherailroadadventuresofchensing the award adds to the argument that it could be considered notable even though no articles about him winning this award have come out yet because it has only recently been awarded. John99Wick (talk) 04:43, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Kevin Jere

Okay, I’m going to find more sources. I’ll contact you once I find a good amount — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mariebarreau23 (talk • contribs) 15:25, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

SN Sharma DEEPAK

Hello SoWhy, The article is currently up for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SN Sharma DEEPAK and the AfD template was removed by an IP before IdreamofJeanie applied A7 so can you please revert it back to revision by BD2412. Thank you – GSS (talk|c|em) 08:45, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

@GSS-1987: You are, of course, correct. My apologies. I missed the afd-tagging because BD2412 did not use a script to tag it. I have restored his version. Regards SoWhy 08:56, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

I can understand. Thank you so much. GSS (talk|c|em) 09:07, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Golden Lotus (musical)

Hi, I would like to repost the article for Golden Lotus (musical) with revisions and additional sources that should make it appropriate for Wikipedia. It seems that the editors of that page didn't use a lot of the source materials out there. I will rectify that in the new version of the page with your approval.John99Wick (talk) 17:57, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

@John99Wick: Fine by me. I have restored the page into user space at User:John99Wick/Golden Lotus (musical) where you can work on it. I suggest you add the template {{submit}} to it when you are done to get someone experienced to review it before it's moved back to the main article space, else it might be deleted quickly again. Regards SoWhy 18:46, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

User:John99Wick, User:SoWhy - I have reviewed the revised draft of Draft:Golden Lotus (musical). On the one hand, I don't see much change between the current draft and the deleted version. On the other hand, I think that the current draft satisfies notability -- and so the deleted version satisfied notability, and, in my opinion, was wrongly deleted due to "train wreck". I have also read the deletion discussion, and it focused on the biography of a living person of the composer, not on the musical. So my question is whether you, the closer, are willing to reconsider the close as it applies to the musical. Otherwise the choices are that someone can request deletion review, or someone can ignore all rules and accept the musical, but the latter would essentially ignore the deletion. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:54, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

By the way, I was about to file a request for deletion review, but it says to discuss with the closing administrator. So here I am. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:54, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

in working on the Golden Lotus (musical) article I found many articles about the composer George Chiang and about his book The Railroad Adventures of Chen Sing to establish notoriaty. I can also work on those two article if you allow me. I will edit the pages so that only information that comes from reliable sources appears in both articles. John99Wick (talk) 03:12, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon and John99Wick: In closing an AFD, I can only access the consensus that exists. DRV cannot change that (cf. WP:DRVPURPOSE). I see your point re. the musical though, since the consensus regarding it is weaker than regarding the composer, thus I can accept to considering this part as WP:SOFTDELETE instead (which allows restore by any other like PROD does). However, I suggest you first consult with the AFD's nominator as well since otherwise they are likely to renominate it for deletion. Regarsd SoWhy 07:47, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

I contacted the AFD's nominator to inform him of my work on the Golden Lotus (musical) article as well as my intention to work on the articles for George Chiang and The Railroad Adventures of Chen Sing. Perhaps Robert McClenon can contact him as well.John99Wick (talk) 13:05, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

SoWhy, I have just deleted "Talk:George Chiang" again: 10:13, March 20, 2018 Shirt58 (talk | contribs | block) deleted page Talk:George Chiang (G8: Page dependent on a deleted or nonexistent page (CSDH)) (view/restore). It contained this text:

While working on the article for Golden Lotus (musical) I found more credible sources for this article and I am awaiting for approval to work on it to have it considered for reposting. In intend to edit the article to only include information from the sources and delete areas that aren't referenced."

In my opinion, this editor's comment may be in the form a valid Wikipedia:Deletion review request.

However I do note that Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/George Chiang is the only AFD about a person of that name, and that "Golden Lotus (musical)" was in my opinion correctly bundled in that AfD discussion.

What are your thoughts about this? Pete AU aka --Shirt58 (talk) 11:42, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

@Shirt58: New sources are a valid DRV request. However, so far it seems that no new sources exist, as Robert McClenon points out for the musical. If new sources for the person exist, DRV can be considered.

@John99Wick: If you have more sources about Chiang, please share them with us and we can discuss whether to bring this to deletion review to get the article restored. Regards SoWhy 11:49, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Hi,

Here are new articles that I found related to George Chiang/Golden Lotus (musical)/The Railroad Adventures of Chen Sing.

I added 7 new sources to the Golden Lotus (musical) article which all mention George Chiang as well (they are listed below). Some of the links are from Facebook links because those are the only copies of the original articles I could find online. If it is better that I remove the links and just cite the sources please let me know. I understand Facebook is not an appropriate source. I believe that wenwipo, Sing Pao (one of the top Chinese dailies in Hong Kong, if not the top), The Standard HK (likely the foremost English language newspaper in Hong Kong) are undisputedly credible sources. the others sources are not as highly respected but credible in my opinion.

1.白健恩及鍾浩賢分別飾演西門慶、潘金蓮 Ronan Pak Kin Yan and Harriet Chung played Ximen Qing and Pan Jinlian respectively, wenweipo.com, September 09, 2014 2.身演出振雄風 白健恩生擒潘金蓮 He Was Born to Capture Golden Lotus, hd.stheadline.com, September 5, 2014 3.白健恩激情戲成重點 Ronan Pak Kin Yan's Passion Play, SING PAO, September 25, 2014 4.Review- Golden Lotus, the Musical", HKELD, September 13,2014 5.Woman Pursues Her Passion in Life and Dance, The Standard HK, September 10, 2014 6.白健恩主演音樂劇《金瓶梅》 獲《最佳原創作品獎》Ronan Pak Kin Yan starred in Golden Lotus which won the "Best Original Work" Award, Stars HK, September 8, 2015 7.白健恩主演音樂劇《金瓶梅》獲《最佳原創作品獎》Ronan Pak Kin Yan starred in Golden Lotus Which Won the "Best Original Work" Award". a1c1.com.hk. Retrieved 2015-09-08.

New Articles found about George Chiang's acting http://nowtoronto.pressreader.com/now-magazine/19930114, Railroad Direct, NOW Magazine, January 14, 199 http://nowtoronto.pressreader.com/now-magazine/19931007, Urban Donnellys looks at feuds from the view of street-level people, NOW Magazine, October 7, 1993 http://nowtoronto.pressreader.com/now-magazine/19931021, Donnelleys Dynamite, NOW Magazine, October 21, 1993 A theatrical bat out of hell". Toronto Star, October 14, 1993. (found on the Wikipedia article for Kimberly Huie which mentions George Chiang) about the same play in the Now magazine articles listed above.

I know there are more articles but it will take me time to find them and list them properly as sources.

New article, review and additional book award for The Railroad Adventures of Chen Sing: https://www.keremeosreview.com/news/award-winning-book-inspired-by-cawton-mans-stories/ new Review https://readersfavorite.com/book-review/the-railroad-adventures-of-chen-sing New Award - The Readerview Kids 2018 Reviewers Choice Award (Canada West) - the award was only recently awarded and no articles have mentioned it as of yet. http://readerviews.com/2017-2018-literary-award-winners John99Wick (talk) 05:39, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

@John99Wick: Thanks for this. I created a deletion review in your name at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2018 March 21 and invited all previously involved parties there. Regards SoWhy 08:14, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Script..

Following the footsteps of SN54129's addition of yor's CSD script to his common.js, I too wished to change to your script, given that it's decline reasons were pre-filled and seemed more customized than Alex's CSDH but, on reading the script, I don't think that it can be used by any non-admin and neither does it seem to work on any CSD-tagged page, unlike CSDH.(It's probably because the script can be used to delete CSD-tagged articles at the same time too!)But, anyways, am I correct?!~ Winged Blades^Godric 06:41, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

@Winged Blades of Godric and Serial Number 54129: Neither of you should use that script. That was a copy I tinkered with back in 2009 and which I just forgot to clean up afterwards (did so now). Use the original script instead which now has the features I tried to add back then. Check User:SoWhy/monobook.js for my configuration (which uses User:SoWhy/csdreasons.js for the customized reasons). IIRC, the script works for non-admins by changing "decline" to "contest". Regards SoWhy 06:50, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Facepalm--Huh!! I'm discarding newer scripts to use un-maintained ones...But, SN is the one to blame this squarely upon:)~ Winged Blades^Godric 07:18, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

That should also explain your problem, Winged Blades of Godric: You copied var overwriteDeclineReasons = true; from my configuration but did not specify var myDeclineReasons (which in my case is handled by importing User:SoWhy/csdreasons.js), so the script assumes you don't want the standard decline reasons but also has nothing to replace them with. So either remove the var overwriteDeclineReasons = true; line (to use the standard reasons) or define var myDeclineReasons (to have your own reasons). Regards SoWhy 07:06, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Many thanks.And, I sincerely appreciate your's looking for the reasons behind my partial non-working of the script.~ Winged Blades^Godric 07:18, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

No worries. Feel free to ask if you need more help with it. Regards SoWhy 07:22, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

I added the vacant fields to my commons.js, as directed and it's working like a charm! Again, heartfelt thanks:)~ Winged Blades^Godric 12:56, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

• Thanks for info SoWhy; I wondered why the CSDH wasn't working...thought it needed a dose of viagra  ;) cheers! —SerialNumber54129 ^{paranoia /cheap shit room}

my talk page on other wikis

thanks for the advice but i already know how to change my preferences, ....point is, i shouldn't have to

i revert all my talk pages as is my right, and i hate that people keep reverting my edits on the Italian wiki for no reason

end of the day i have no idea why these other wikis are bothering me out of the blue in the first place, or why they seem to have such an aversion to me reverting my own talk page when they add massive welcome boxes to it at random

i have no reason to want to be their

Tony Spike (talk) 12:17, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

@Tony Spike: If you disagree with what other wikis do, you have to raise the issue there or, if this fails, at the Meta-wiki. Each community has their own standards and no single wiki can make decisions for another one. Regards SoWhy 12:22, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

thanks i will take a look their

Tony Spike (talk) 12:23, 28 March 2018 (UTC)