Talk:2019 Balakot airstrike

Title

@Orientls:, The original article title 2019 Indian Line of Control strike was based on 2016 Indian Line of Control strike. The changed title 2019 Indian Air Force strikes in Pakistan is not OK because the place in which strike was carried out is claimed by India as it own so in Pakistan is not neutral.-Nizil (talk) 05:33, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

 Administrator note given the repeated renaming of the page, I have move-protected it for a month. Involved editors are urged to at least discuss the page title issue amongst themselves to see if easy consensus is reachable (or, use WP:RM if there are significant disagreements) before unilaterally renaming the page. Feel free to ping me or any other admin if you reach an agreement and need a change to be implemented. Abecedare (talk) 06:41, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

• Nizil I think the current title "2019 Balakot airstrike" selected by User:Jim7049 makes more sense as the exact location of the airstrike. --DBigXrayᗙ 07:44, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Yes, agree. It makes more sense than the previous title.-Nizil (talk) 08:48, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

• But Indian media is claiming multiple places of strike. How could it be single village name given? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.240.137.10 (talk) 08:04, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Chakote (3:58AM), Muzafarabad (3:48AM), and Balakot (3:45AM) were purportedly attacked, according to Indian media. Pakistan Army spokeswoman Ghafoor said the reports were fake, and "not a brick was broken", and invited (authorize) Indian civilian or military to inspect the locations bombed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.243.120.126 (talk) 15:18, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

• Balakot is one of 3 claimed strike locations, and not OK as a suitable title for the entire event. (43.242.116.30 (talk) 19:52, 26 February 2019 (UTC))

Drone shot in Gujarat

twitter Pics here. Does anyone know if there was any official pic released by Press Information Bureau ? --DBigXrayᗙ 08:32, 26 February 2019 (UTC) This is possibly unrelated to the early morning incident the article is covering. No western media have reported on the contraband purportedly used. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.243.120.126 (talk) 15:28, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 February 2019

On 26 February 2019, twelve Mirage 2000 jets of the Indian Air Force took off from MAHARAJPPURA airbase GWALIOR crossed the Line of Control and stuck an alleged Jaish-e-Mohammed operated terrorist camp at Balakot. Indian foreign secretary termed the airstrike as "non-military, preemptive airstrikes".[2]There are 10 fighter are for bombing and 2 for taking photos. Chillychikoo (talk) 10:17, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. DBigXrayᗙ 10:33, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

POV

It has not been established that JeM camp was attacked. India claims so but Pakistan denies. So on what basis is that included as a fact in this page? This page has to be tagged for POV as most sources used is Indian media. I can hardly find any Pakistani media reports. Libin Scaria (talk) 10:53, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

And inclusion of Pakistani claims by me have been removed by a user claiming it to be non-neutral. Indian claim that 200-300 militants were killed which is an outright lie is included and the user finds it neutral. Pakistan claims that Indian jets had to return after Pakistani Air Force response. This the user finds unacceptable. Is it fair to include claims by one side alone? This article definitely is written from an Indian perspective. Libin Scaria (talk) 10:59, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

The story is still developing and claims by both sides have to be taken into account for now. We can slowly dimiss the lie and propaganda without proper sources. I still do think the 350 militants killed should be changed to alleged by the media(since no official claim has been on casualities has been made yet).rationalwikiuser 20:46, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

I would like to disagree. All statements in the article have been sourced to news articles. This is not a claim from any user. Sherenk1 (talk) 11:04, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

The article is written in the manner that Indian claim is a fact while Pakistani claim is just a claim. You cannot use multitude of Indian sources and state that the sources are alright. Also the lead earlier started with the sentence "Indian jets attacked JeM base camp attack in Balakot". This is an Indian claim only. According to Pakistan, there was no attack and the payload was dropped when Indian jets were fleeing back. Both these details should be included in the article without trying to establish anything. I have modified the lead but the rest of the article includes mostly claims by India.Libin Scaria (talk) 11:21, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

WP:NPOV did not work, now the other user is bringing up WP:COPYVIO to remove content undesirable for him/her. Just sad that such experienced users are not able to accept facts as facts and is trying to push their POV to the article. Libin Scaria (talk) 12:44, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Media and spokespersons both in India and in Pakistan are being described as "jumping monkeys", in both Urdu and Hindi. That is the only common aspect to the media resources across the border, and across the LoC. If Pakistan sources are insufficiently cited (very well may be the case here), that does lead to POV problems, but several Civilian and Military figures have held press-conferences, so a balanced and neutral wikipedian may find complimentary sources. Try harder126.243.120.126 (talk) 16:22, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 February 2019

Here is a look at seven things India used to destroy terror camps across LoC

• AIR ASSET 1: 12 Indian Air Force Mirage-2000 fighter jets - Same jet that hit Pak during Kargil
• AIR ASSET 2: 1,000-kg laser-guided bombs - MBDA BGL 1000 laser-guided bomb
• AIR ASSET 3: The IAI Heron - Machatz-1 - medium-altitude long-endurance unmanned aerial vehicle
• AIR ASSET 4: Embraer 145 Netra - Airborne early warning and control developed by DRDO
• AIR ASSET 5: IL-78 REFUELLER AIRCRAFT - Took off from Agra for midair refuelling assistance
• AIR ASSET 6: Su 30 MKI - Took off from Sirsa airbase to tackle any eventuality
• AIR ASSET 7: Pechora missiles - Missiles were on standby near the line of control and international border to counter eventuality Abhishekarya1 (talk) 13:29, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made, and you have not provided any sources. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 13:51, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps the contributor wants to list "Air Assets" of the Government of India used agressively in the disputed alleged Violation Of Pakistani Airspace (Line of Control is not official border, but it could be seen as violation of De Facto Pakistani Airspace). If sources are available (although access to such publication may be limited), there should not be a problem including the list, although if situation escalates such lists may become exhaustive. There are sources126.243.120.126 (talk) 16:33, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Coordinate error

The following coordinate fixes are needed for

34.538818,73.436125 —103.255.4.4 (talk) 14:41, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Can you provide a source for these coordinates? This point seems to be in a forest near the border, not all that near the town of Balakot. ([1]) Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 16:03, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Photographs of the alleged target were broadcast on both Indian and Pakistani news, seemingly in a forested area, no campground discernable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.243.120.126 (talk) 16:38, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

WP:OR --QEDK (後 ☕ 桜) 18:08, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Balakot location

Could someone correct the location of the attack. Pakistan defense minister and other officials claim that the strike took place 4 to 5km in Pakistan near loc. The Balakot which is mentioned by Pakistan is the one which is in Azad Kashmir. Here are Pakistani officials claims:

• https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/india/india-pakistan-tension-where-is-the-real-balakot-the-indian-air-force-target-1.1551168559497 Here they mentions that India struck Balakot village in Azad Kashmir. They never managed to reach Balakot town in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa as per Pakistani officials claims.

Secondly, Indian officals also only mention that they hit Balakot. They never mentioned which one they hit. Here is Indian officials claims:

• https://thewire.in/security/iaf-airstrikes-in-pakistan-what-we-know-what-we-dont-know

The confusion should be cleared since both areas are different. Also from reading different news on the subject, I have seen that the 'Balakot in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa' claim is only mentioned by newspapers based on their own analysis. Neither Pakistani nor Indian officials talk about Balakot in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. Alibaloshi12 (talk) 18:30, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Where exactly is this second Balakot? I've failed to locate it on Google Maps and it does not have a Wiki article. Jim7049 (talk) 19:01, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Jim7049 i don't know why it does not have have a wiki page. But there is a area in Pakistan part of Kashmir which is called Balakot.

In this source they talk about Balakot which is in Azad Kashmir near Line of Control: https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/india/india-pakistan-tension-where-is-the-real-balakot-the-indian-air-force-target-1.1551168559497 From the source: "The second Balakot where the Indian Air Force struck is a small village located around 4 to 5km from the Line of Control (LoC) in the Pakistan side of Kashmir. This area is mostly under the control of Pakistan army as the civilian population has already been moved out of the area due to the fear of border clashes, a highly placed official told Gulf News."

https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/pakistan/where-is-balakot-did-india-enter-pakistani-airspace/ from the source: "According to the reports, the Balakot in question is one in Azad Jammu Kashmir. Indian jets could only come inside Pakistani airspace for 3-4 miles."

Hence the confusion should be addressed.

Moreover, mentions of Balakot near LoC on Pakistan side of Kashmir can be found even during when ceasefire violations took place between Pakistan and India. Here is report from Pakistani media from 2018 where they talk about Indian forces shelling in Balakot sector of Azad Kashmir. https://www.dawn.com/news/1396035 From the news: Indian troops started heavy mortar shelling at about 7am in the morning, targeting civilian populations in almost all villages along the Line of Control (LoC), said Nakyal Assistant Commissioner Waleed Anwar. According to the assistant commissioner the shelling finally ceased at noon....He added that at least three people were reported injured in "Balakot". Alibaloshi12 (talk) 19:53, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Can any one fix Typo in 2019_Balakot_airstrike#Background section

In section the section 2019_Balakot_airstrike#Background the bold word should be 11 instead of 1l (the second character is actually L in lowercase )

"Detainee has admitted to volunteering to fight Jihad against the US and its allies, remaining after the events of September 1lth to continue to fight, and receiving training from the JEM. Detainee received training in Balakot, PK, a location known to house a training camp that offers both basic and advanced terrorist training on explosives and artillery. Detainee is a probable member of the JEM and as such, if released would likely gravitate back to that Islamic extremist group. The JEM espouses Jihad against the US and is directly supported by Al-Qaida." - Joint Task Force Guantanamo, 31 January 2004"

Jasonx5 (talk) 18:56, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

 Done. No comment on whether pulling that quote from WikiLeaks is appropriate or reliable. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 18:59, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 February 2019

In the end of first paragraph, we have line "Pakistan claimed that no casualties or damage has been inflicted.[8][9]"

After this line, we should also add: "Indian media reported that there are about 200 to 300 militants were killed during this operation.[18]"

Otherwise, you are showing partial information in the first paragraph (that is read by majority of readers). 73.93.155.64 (talk) 20:44, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Pakistan is now reporting civilian casualties due to subsequent shelling.Bless sins (talk) 20:57, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi,
The article is totally neutral please refer the bold words bellow, I hope you fill get it.
According to Indian media, the jets struck a Jaish-e-Mohammed-operated militant camp at Balakot and about 350 militants were killed during the operation.[6][7] According to Pakistan, the Indian military aircraft violated their airspace near Muzaffarabad, Pakistan scrambled its jets in response, forcing the Indian jets back, dropping its payload while returning. Pakistan claimed that no casualties or damage has been inflicted.

Jasonx5 (talk) 21:18, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

 Already done Closing. --QEDK (後 ☕ 桜) 21:35, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Editors please add a section with on the fake video which is circulated on social media which pretends to be original visuals of airstrikes

Hi over there,
Can anyone please add that a fake video was circulated over the social media which claimed to be the visuals of the air strikes but in reality they are are screen-clips from a military simulation video game called ARMA 2 in the operation arrowhead in which US army helicopter Apache engages Taliban in Takistan mountains.

URL of the original video on YouTube posted about 3 years before the air-strikes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7CnMEhF54o

Reliable Sources :-

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/fake-alert-no-this-is-not-the-video-of-indian-air-force-strike-in-balakot/articleshow/68166991.cms

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2019/feb/26/fact-check-fake-iaf-airstrike-video-goes-viral-1944010.html

http://www.newindianexpress.com/videos/videos-nation/2019/feb/26/fake-news-scene-from-the-video-game-arma-2-circulates-as-footage-of-iaf-air-strike-in-balakot-106426.html

https://www.thequint.com/news/webqoof/fake-news-iaf-air-strikes-across-loc

https://www.bhaskar.com/no-fake-news/news/two-fake-videos-viral-on-social-media-after-indias-air-strike-on-pakistan-01493398.html

https://scroll.in/article/914675/video-game-clips-old-footage-go-viral-claiming-to-show-indian-air-force-attack-on-jaish-camp

https://www.latestly.com/social-viral/fact-check/fact-check-these-videos-going-viral-as-iaf-air-strike-on-jem-terror-camps-across-loc-in-balakot-are-fake-665271.html

https://www.jagran.com/politics/national-pakistan-air-attack-attack-fake-video-viral-18992139.html

This will help to reduce spread of this fake video, which has infact gained 10s of millions of views across Facebook and Whatsapp

Jasonx5 (talk) 21:07, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Exactly what we should not do. --QEDK (後 ☕ 桜) 21:34, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

New York Times report

Can someone add this information from New York times. I believe it is important to the article:

"It was the first time that Indian aircraft had crossed the Kashmir Line of Control to strike in decades. But it was unclear what, if anything, the attack jets hit on the Pakistani side, raising the possibility that India was making a calculated bet to assuage public anger but minimize the risk of a major Pakistani military response."

"Western security officials have raised questions about the existence of a large-scale training camp, saying that Pakistan no longer runs such camps and that militant groups are spread out in small groups around the country. Analysts and diplomats in New Delhi said the targets of the Indian airstrikes were unclear, as any terrorist groups operating along the border would have cleared out in recent days after Prime Minister Narendra Modi of India vowed retaliation over the Kashmir attack."

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/25/world/asia/india-pakistan-kashmir-jets.html?module=inline

Also could someone look into the issue of Balakot location problem? Balakot mentioned by Pakistan is the one which is near LoC. Meanwhile Indian security officials have only mentioned Balakot. They never mentioned which Balakot it took place. So the Balakot location should be corrected and the page specifiy which Balakot the strike took place. Source:

• https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/india/india-pakistan-tension-where-is-the-real-balakot-the-indian-air-force-target-1.1551168559497
• https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/pakistan/where-is-balakot-did-india-enter-pakistani-airspace/

Here Indian officials talk about Balakot but they never specify which Balakot did the strike took place. https://thewire.in/security/iaf-airstrikes-in-pakistan-what-we-know-what-we-dont-know Alibaloshi12 (talk) 00:18, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

You are quoting old reports to mislead. Pak DG ISPR quoted Balakot in Muzaffarabad sector, there is only one Balakot In Muzaffarabad Sector, the one in KP. The Balakot in KP has the largest terrorist camp of JeM. enough reports have been published, that clarifies which Balakot. there is no confusion now. --DBigXrayᗙ 04:03, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Civilian deaths

Civilian deaths in the shelling on the same day is both notable and widely reported.[2][3][4] It should not be removed.Bless sins (talk) 03:01, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

@Gazoth: its better to overcite in early stages of article editing. This content has already been removed once.Bless sins (talk) 03:44, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

IAF Strength edit

Pls add the following planes:- 1.) 16-Mirage 2000 H/I 2.) 2-Illyshin IL-78 MKI 3.) 1-Embraer EMB-145 Netra 4.). 1- IAI Heron 5.). unknown Sukhoi Su-30 MKI _Srijanx22_ 03:23, 27 February 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Srijanx22 (talk • contribs)

update it is 12 Mirage 2000 not 16 while 4 Su-30 were used _Srijanx22_ 03:29, 27 February 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Srijanx22 (talk • contribs)

Srijanx22 Please provide reliable sources for the content that you want to add. --DBigXrayᗙ 04:00, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Sir the report was published in front page of The Times Of India newspaper.It is a highly reputed english newspaper in the country. Also in the thier report they have mention 1 AWAC but in thier own news channel they said it was EMB-145.

_Srijanx22_ 05:49, 27 February 2019 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Srijanx22 (talk • contribs)  

1.)Below is the link that confirms that Embraer EMB-145 Netra was used in this operation:- https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/iaf-strikes-flying-in-indian-airspace-eye-in-the-sky-netra-guided-mirage-2000-jets-to-balakot-1999729 _Srijanx22_ 05:53, 27 February 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Srijanx22 (talk • contribs)

Weapons in Pulwama strike

@Gazoth: why was this removed [5]? It can be reworded, but it comes from a reliable source and is relevant.Bless sins (talk) 03:46, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

It would not be worth keeping after being reworded. After adding some attribution such as "New York Times stated that" and then further qualifying it with something along the lines of "likely", it would become too complicated for a summary. The details are always available in the main article. The summary should be short and simple. —Gazoth (talk) 03:57, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Current event template

I have removed the current event template, since it has already been 30 hours since the strikes finished. the reports are accurate now, official statements have also come--DBigXrayᗙ 03:58, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

No images in article claiming there is

In the Incident part, there is no image provided. And the article claims there is "Pakistan reported Indian aircraft violated their airspace near Muzaffarabad and "released a payload" near Balakot. They claimed that there was open space where the aircraft dropped the bombs, and provided images of destroyed forest to corroborate their account.[31]". Can anyone clarify if there are images released or not? If so, provide a link with them. Snitor (talk) 05:39, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Image of Mirage 2000

• 
  Indian Air Force Dassault Mirage 2000 during Cope India 2004
• 
  GWALIOR AIR FORCE STATION, India -- An Indian air force Mirage 2000 taxis into position following a Cope India 2004 sortie
• 
  : IAF Mirage 2000 at Aero India 2009.
• 
  KT211 AMD Mirage 2000TH Indian Air Force

Hi All, Please take a look at the c:Category:Mirage 2000 (Indian Air Force) and suggest the most appropriate pic for the article. I personally feel File:Dassault Mirage 2000.jpg looks best. suggestions invited. --DBigXrayᗙ 05:58, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 February 2019

In the second paragraph first sentence: "According to India, the jets struck a Jaish-e-Mohammed-operated militant camp at Balakot, with 1,000 kg laser-guided bombs killing around 350 militants and returned back into Indian airspace unharmed without being engaged by Pakistani aircrafts" please change the last word to aircraft as this is a collective noun that does not require the addition of the letter s to render it plural. 203.52.171.124 (talk) 06:03, 27 February 2019 (UTC)