Talk:Samuel Francis Du Pont

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was PAGE MOVED to Samuel Francis Du Pont, per discussion below. Everyone seems to agree that the "Du" should be capitalized, and there's no consensus to go from "Francis" to "F.". If that part seems important, feel free to work on consensus for that, but at least we got the "Du" straightened out, and there are redirects from every reasonable spelling. -GTBacchus^(talk) 08:41, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

Samuel Francis du Pont → Samuel F. Du Pont — Most common usage, and his usage, as cited in the capitalization example in the U.S. Government Printing Office Style Manual, section 3.14 Gene Nygaard 07:52, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Survey

Add  * '''Support'''  or  * '''Oppose'''  on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.

• Oppose—"Francis" should be spelled out because that appears to be how he is most commonly referred to historically. Note that all biographies about him appear to be titled by his full name.[1] Regarding the lower case "du," I believe I created the article in that form because of the explanation given at Du Pont family as to usage, but I can't say I feel as strongly about that as I do about his middle name. Postdlf 00:59, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I think he most often appears historically as Samuel F., just as most military people do, and as the GPO puts it. Nonetheles, the "Du" is clearly the relevant point addressed in the GPO Style Manual, and it needs to be moved to either Samuel Francis Du Pont or Samuel F. Du Pont, since he is generally known with the uppercase "D" which is what he used. Gene Nygaard 15:27, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

• Support Du. ANB says specifically that he was the only grandson of Pierre Samuel to capitalize. Septentrionalis 18:13, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
• Support per nom. No opinion on spelling out "Francis". older ≠ wiser 04:02, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

U.S. Government Printing Office Style Manual (pdf or plain text versions):

Particles in names of persons

3.13. In foreign names such particles as d’, da, de, della, den, du, van, and von are capitalized unless preceded by a forename or title. Individual usage, if ascertainable, should be followed.

Da Ponte; Cardinal da Ponte
Den Uyl; Johannes den Uyl; Prime Minister den Uyl
Du Pont; E.I. du Pont de Nemours & Co.
Van Rensselaer; Stephen van Rensselaer
Von Braun; Wernher von Braun
but d’Orbigny; Alcide d’Orbigny; de la Madrid; Miguel de la Madrid

3.14. In anglicized names such particles are usually capitalized, even if preceded by a forename or title, but individual usage, if ascertainable, should be followed.

Justice Van Devanter; Reginald De Koven
Thomas De Quincey; William De Morgan
Henry van Dyke (his usage)
Samuel F. Du Pont (his usage); Irénée du Pont

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.