Talk:Grand Canyon University

External links modified

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For-Profit Transition

Some editors "jumped the gun" after the school's accreditors approved its transition from for-profit to non-profit. I reversed these changes while making it clear that the university is currently in a transition period. Its should remain like this until a secondary or primary source, like the Department of Education's College Navigator tool or the Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education's classification, indicates otherwise. Any other statements are WP:SPECULATION. ErieSwiftByrd (talk) 21:21, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

@ErieSwiftByrd: Those are trailing indicators that aren't updated very frequently, sometimes taking a few years to update or change information. If we have reliable sources and the information isn't contested or complex then there's no reason for us to wait for those specific sources to catch up. ElKevbo (talk) 22:45, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Alright, I added a cited sentence regarding the steps the school still needs to take before becoming a non-profit. We can make further changes once a secondary or primary source indicates that the school is actually a non-profit. ErieSwiftByrd (talk) 18:46, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Agreed! ElKevbo (talk) 18:50, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

The university is still uniquely working with its for-profit arm - Grand Canyon Education Inc. as is noted by multiple reputable sources. Including this in the intro makes sense seeing how no other university presumably has its CEO working for its contractor and itself, and it is disingenuous since multiple employees and resources are involved in a for-profit publicly traded company, not solely a non-profit institution. AlaskanNativeRU (talk) 11:59, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

As I stated almost a year ago the suspicious circumstances surrounding GCU's transition were spot on. The Department of Education ruled that the "university is a for-profit" and rejects its attempted transition to non-profit. Along with this new development, ErieSwiftByrd's links still prove the same point, that the school been a for-profit this whole time and only certain media outlets/editors jumped the gun. AlaskanNativeRU (talk) 22:07, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

I understand (and share) your concerns about this institution and its recent actions. However, the article needs to reflect what reliable sources say, not our personal opinions. The IRS and Arizona State Board for Private Postsecondary Education have approved the institution's conversion to non-profit status as has the institution's regional accreditor. The Department of Education appears to be the lone holdout and it isn't accurate to only represent its ruling when many other prominent and important organizations have ruled otherwise.

Given the complexity of the situation, I see two viable ways to handle this. The first is what we have right now: Omit the classification from the infobox and lede sentence with some explanation later in the lede and detailed explanation in the body. The second way would be to include something in the infoxbox and lede sentence - I'm not sure what - and have a detailed footnote explaining the situation.

(Incidentally, there is at least one other institution in a very similar situation - Bridgepoint, maybe? - and I would not be surprised if a few other institutions end up here, too, given the decreasing enrollments of for-profits and the constant skepticism by legislators and policy experts. So it would be good if we can establish a workable precedent for this article that could be applied in other similar articles.) ElKevbo (talk) 22:31, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

I would have it clearly state that the university is a for-profit college in the lede and infobox - to be consistent. I would take a quick glance at the federal government's actual ruling located here that state's GCU is still a for-profit. Most notably "GCU must cease any advertising or notices that refer to its "nonprofit status". Such statements are confusing to students and the public, who may interpret such statements to mean the Department considers GCU a nonprofit under its regulations". For every other university wiki page we look at the classifications listed in publications and the Department of Ed's website so it would make sense to list its for-profit status in the lede and then explain (as it does now) in the body of it further. AlaskanNativeRU (talk) 23:23, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

We're not beholden to a ruling by one agency of the U.S. government particularly when another agency has made a different ruling that are consistent with several other prominent organizations. So I still don't understand why you believe that we should place so much weight on one agency's ruling when this is so clearly a complex and contentious issue with contradictory rulings by different groups.

(It's also confusing to refer to the Department of Education as "DOE" when that abbreviation is customarily used to refer to the Department of Energy.) ElKevbo (talk) 23:45, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

i agree we aren't beholden to a specific agency. What is being used to determine if a school is a for-profit or non-profit at this time? I thought we used the ed departments website along with other 3rd party sources. That would be the easiest and most consistent to have in place throughout wiki. As of now the ED's website lists GCU as a for-profit, so does Carnegie classifications, and recent local and national news articles (inside higher ed, ect). Furthermore while it's good to mention in the bosy of the article that the IRS considers it a nonprofit for tax purposes and so does its accrediting body (after multiple attempts) those were all just steps necessary to convert the school into a non-profit based on the department of education's requirements - which it was ultimately denied. As of now the school is a 'for-profit university' as a higher education provider. Let's see what some other editors see and I apologize on my abbreviations I have since fixed it. AlaskanNativeRU (talk) 00:01, 26 November 2019 (UTC)