Talk:Standing bell: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 07:25, 8 December 2006

Difficulty

I've removed, "It is reportedly very difficult to master; if done incorrectly the bowl will produce no sound". This gives the impression that producing the sound is a difficult thing. This is not so, or at least, not for all bowls: I lived with a guy who had one last year, and it was very easy for me and other housemates to get it to produce the sound. — Matt Crypto 08:10, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If it's a high quality bowl, you're right - they sing very easily.

Looking for a source for high quality Tibetan singing bowls-- please help!

Can anyone recommend me a known source for very high quality Tibetan singing bowls. I am a composer and I need some to complete a film score. Thanks!

Vandalism

I think i was just accused of vandalism on 1 December 2006! This is b9 hummingbird hovering here. I do NOT vandalise. I am not on my pc atm...but my edits are reputable and honourable. Respectfully. Email: soliton108@yahoo.com.au

Boris Allen (user): don't undo my edits (eg Singing bowl and Singing bowls without due investigation. If you have a challenge please add it to [[1]] so we may resolve. Respectfully Beauford

Multiphonic trance induction

I would very much like this paragraph to be investigated, sourced and referenced and included! I do not have my notes currently but I will in the not too distant future. :-D

Neuroanthropology and cognitive neuroscience are conducting research into the trance induction of altered states of consciousness (possibly engendering higher consciousness} resulting from neuron firing entrainment with these polyharmonics and multiphonics. Related research has been conducted into neural entraining with percussive polyrhythms. The timbre of traditional singing bowls and their polyrhythms and multiphonics are considered meditative and calminative and the harmony inducing effects of this potentially consciousness alterning tool are being explored by scientists, medical professionals and therapists.

Cool, please do, but don't forget Wikipedia:Reliable sources and WP:NPOV -- I'm pretty sure that this stuff is not mainstream. — Matt Crypto 14:55, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

NB: "pretty sure"... ;~P *heheheheheh*

"Understatement is a staple of British humor." — Matt Crypto 15:00, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

References

James, William The varieties of religious experience (1902) ISBN 0-14-039034-0
Tart, Charles T., editor. Altered States of Consciousness (1969) ISBN 0-471-84560-4
Tart, Charles T. States of Consciousness (2001) ISBN 0-595-15196-5
Wier, Dennis R. Trance: from magic to technology (1995) ISBN 1-888428-38-4

trance induction, etc.

Singing bowls are bells and wonderful instruments for personal wellbeing. There is no evidence of any traditional use in trance induction. Today, the vast majority use singing bowls for meditation and the peaceful feeling they help foster. It is a tiny minority that will ever be interested in trance induction, altered states, etc. Drums and eloctronic music are much more suitable for trance than singing bowls. Let's not scare people away from these sublime and gentle instruments by getting into the heavy shamonic stuff here on Wikipedia!

Singing bowl differences of perception and opinion

Singing bowls come from a shamanic tradition! The Himalayan tradition is fundamentally animistic and shamanic! Give this a read http://www.thameshudson.co.uk/books/Shamanism_and_Tantra_in_the_Himalayas/9780500511084.mxs/34/0/ (accessed: 3 December 2006).

There is a fundamental misunderstanding here...meditative states are a form of trance... sleeping is also a form of trance. Even conscious awareness in Beta is a trance. Trance involves filtering of information and brain functioning. It is a matter of functionality and efficiency. There is published evidence. Have you looked? Do u know of the Oracle in the Himalayan tradition? Are you a Buddhist practitioner? Do you regularly sound a singing bowl? I am a Bonpo Dzogchenpa in a traditional lineage. I employ singing bowls amongst other shamanic technologies. Throat singing induce similar brain states or trance states. In the Japanese tradition the Shakahatchi is used similarly for trance induction and meditation. Your understanding is cursory. I would like this issue to be put forward for a peer review. Why are trances 'scary'? Your ill informed and irrational fear born of ignorance is what is terrifying. I take offence at your misinformed value judgement of me and referring to me as "insane". I am also disappointed that you are Wiki-kin. Inform yourself. Conduct a current literature review of publications and peer review literature before making rash and unfounded determinations. Your understanding of "trance" is limited and your assertions false. Read the literature. I appreciate your views on the trance induction and I will ensure in the future that when i reintroduce the information about trance induction that it is referenced immediately. Your ignorance on traditional fountain bowls shows how cursory your understanding of the subject matter is. B9 hummingbird hovering 06:22, 3 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Singing bowl as vehicle for multiphonic trance induction

Convergent disciplies of neuroanthropology, ethnomusicology, electroencephalography, neurotheology and cognitive neuroscience are conducting research into the trance induction of altered states of consciousness (possibly engendering higher consciousness} resulting from neuron firing entrainment with these polyharmonics and multiphonics. Related research has been conducted into neural entraining from percussive polyrhythms. The timbre of traditional singing bowls and their polyrhythms and multiphonics are considered meditative and calminative and the harmony inducing effects of this potentially consciousness alterning tool are being explored by scientists, medical professionals and therapists.

James, William The varieties of religious experience (1902) ISBN 0-14-039034-0
Tart, Charles T., editor. Altered States of Consciousness (1969) ISBN 0-471-84560-4
Tart, Charles T. States of Consciousness (2001) ISBN 0-595-15196-5
Wier, Dennis R. Trance: from magic to technology (1995) ISBN 1-888428-38-4
Hoffman, Kay (1998). The Trance Workbook: understanding & using the power of altered states. Translated by Elfie Homann, Clive Williams, and Dr Christliebe El Mogharbel. Translation edited by Laurel Ornitz. ISBN 0-8069-1765-2 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 07:19, 3 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

This kind of subjective information is not appropriate for a wikipedia entry!!!

Structure of article

It is important to have separate sections for new singing bowls and traditional ones. Their fabrication is different which also results in significant resonance differences. Fountain bowls as a subset of traditional bowls are a documented fact. This is not conjecture and is documented in the literature I have cited. Whomever keeps on reverting the changes I have implemented I invite discussion and dialogue on differences to mutually resolve issues. I have not as yet reinstated a section about trance induction but I will gather further information. I have seen it in the past in one of the Journal of Consciousness(?) articles in the The University of Melbourne Baillieu Library and comparable information in The State Library of Victoria. I appreciate that the Brain Wave and Singing Bowl article that I pasted above is not well referenced nor well written but that does not negate that there is a body of reputable research published in peer review literature. Please make edits to this new structure of the article but do not merge traditional bowls with new bowls nor delete the sentences on fountain bowls (this should be a subsection of traditional bowls in the future), nor the references. What is the justification for deleting references? B9 hummingbird hovering 00:07, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

B9 Hummingbird - stop the nonsense!

Hey B9Hummingbird - please stop posting all of this weird esoteric information. Most people don't think of singing bowls in those terms and you are forcing your fringe, esoteric, conjectural and, in my opinion, misguided beliefs on this encyclopedia project. Most people think of singing bowls as nice sounding bells - humble instruments for meditation - not shamanic tools for trance induction. By the way - there is absolutely no real evidence that singing bowls were historically used for such purposes. There is a fringe community that uses them in the way you describe. Most people don't think of them like that at all. If you want to voice your esoteric and highly theoretical ideas, start your own website! This page is to explain simply what a singing bowl is - it's a place to introduce novices to the reality that they exist and to tell them simply what they are. Your ramblings will scare most people away, so please stop! This is not the place for you to mouth off about trance states. Give us all a break!

Retort

Whomever you are, you have another agenda. The trance item was three lines if that. But you reverted, deleting reputable and well researched and referenced resources as well as a format that clearly distinguishes between traditional singing bowls and new singing bowls. Inclusion, rather than exclusion is the key. This is not esoteric. That is factual and referenced in the edit that you revert without acknowledgement. You have also deleted conversation from here: the justification being? To promote ignorance. There is a lot of reputable research that has been published and there is quite a well referenced body of related articles on Wikipedia. Have you read meditation? I invite you to dialogue to resolve differences on the version which I have reinstated. Work with that. Lets dialogue to include information in ways that are mutually acceptable rather than delete differences. Differences in research and opinion should be included in the article. The singing bowl or cup gong is evident in many cultures. Maybe a section on cultural usage would also be appropriate. In Vajrayana and Bon trance is endemic and institutionalised. In current research 'trance' is the key term and auspice for which, meditation, and other altered states of consciousness are included. I repeat inclusion not exclusion is key. If you revert it is clear you have another agenda which is not reputable. How about logging in for transparency? B9 hummingbird hovering

innappropriate content

Hummingbird - your content is innapropriate for this entry. If you wish to pass on your esoteric ideas, you should start your own website.

This post is for a simple definition of a singing bowl - it is the place to introduce people who want to learn the basic facts. This is an encyclopedia entry - not your personal soapbox.

You write paragraph after paragraph of highly dubious "facts." Show me firsthand evidence that singing bowls are used in Bon trance. You can't make such a claim and I believe many of your claims are completely false.

So let's keep this entry simple and factual.

If you want to spread these ideas, find a more appropriate forum or create a separate entry for "singing bowl trance" or whatever.

For the purpose here, a simple introduction to the object is more appropriate than your ideas about their possible uses.

@@ Line 51: / Line 51: @@
 *Hoffman, Kay (1998). ''The Trance Workbook:  understanding & using the power of altered states''. Translated by Elfie Homann, Clive Williams, and Dr Christliebe El Mogharbel. Translation edited by Laurel Ornitz. ISBN 0-8069-1765-2 <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:B9 hummingbird hovering|B9 hummingbird hovering]] ([[User talk:B9 hummingbird hovering|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/B9 hummingbird hovering|contribs]]){{#if:07:19, 3 December 2006 (UTC)|&#32;07:19, 3 December 2006 (UTC)|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
+This kind of subjective information is not appropriate for a wikipedia entry!!!
-== Information for later inclusion in singing bowl trance induction section ==
-"Brain waves are categorized into four groups: Alpha, Beta, Delta and Theta. Alpha waves (7 to 12 Hz) arise when the eyes are closed and the mind is in a relaxed state. In the deeper states associated with Alpha waves (5 to 7 Hertz) there is a loss of awareness of the environment as one drifts in a profound state of relaxation. Beta waves (13-30 Hertz) reflect a state of alertness, attention, arousal and anxiety. High Beta waves cause high energy levels and even hypertension. Theta waves (4-7 Hertz) are responsible for a state of drowsiness and dreaming. It is a twilight state which we normally only experience as we wake up or fall asleep. Delta waves (0-4Hertz) are related to the deepest, most relaxed state of sleep.
-How do brain waves fit in with singing bowls? Alfred Tomatis, a French surgeon, did experiments on the relation between the ear, the brain and the nervous system. He discovered that sound actually charges the brain. The little known reason for this is that the first function of the ear is to make sure the cortex receives sufficient neural energy through the "charging" effect of sounds. This is often overlooked because doctors are misguided by the generally accepted idea attributing a primarily auditory function to the ear. Actually hearing is a secondary function. It is a well-known fact in zoology that the auditory apparatus acts as a charging or energizing dynamo. It furnishes current to feed the brain. Tomatis goes even further and explains that the chain of small bones in the ear does not simply carry sound from the outer to the inner ear. This sequence bones has the function of putting the entire cranium into resonance. Sound picked up by the eardrum circulates by means of this chain of small bones throughout the cranium which as a result is made to vibrate. The sound is distributed and regulated by a constant pressure in the labyrinth.
-The listening function does not only affect the ear, it mobilizes the entire nervous system. This activation of neurons regulates muscle tensions and the position of the body. Tomatis explains that higher frequency sounds generally resonate in the brain and affect cognitive functions, such as thinking, spatial perception, and memory. Middle frequency sounds tend to stimulate the heart, lungs, and the emotions. Lower sounds affect physical movement.
-This explains the link between the sounds of the singing bowls and the effects they produce. Brain waves are rhythmic changes in electrical energy, receding and swelling again and again like waves of the ocean. The sounds of the singing bowls are likewise rhythmic, and it is easy to hear waves of low, medium and high frequency in each bowl. Sound waves that correspond to the four kinds of brain waves can be heard when playing a bowl. Singing bowls seem to have a well balanced amount of each of the four kinds of waves; listening to the bowls is like listening to brain waves. Knowing that sound has such a profound effect on the brain, the bones of the skull, and the entire nervous system, it is no wonder that singing bowls can have such a profound effect on people. It explains why participants in a session are so relaxed and happy afterwards, and how the sounds work to create positive changes on physical and psychological levels.
-The sounds produced by singing bowls are rhythmic and soothing, they come and go, again and again. Even though they are monotonous the beauty of the intricate sound patterns they produce makes them fascinating. Before you know it, you are entranced. One day I had a sudden realization, hypnotism and trance states work in the same way. In hypnosis an individual is led into a trance state by means of monotonous, repetitive verbal commands, a swinging a pendulum, eye fixation, and muscle relaxation. We can also slip into a trance state naturally. Hypnotic or trance states are not that exotic, they happen to us every day. Daydreaming, crossing over into sleep at night, the transition of waking up in the morning, watching television, or watching the white lines on the highway all are ways of falling into hypnotic state of relaxation that corresponds to alpha brain waves. In "primitive" cultures trances are often produced by singing and dancing
-In a trance the senses are more developed and accurate. A hypnotized person will experience increased concentration and complete relaxation. The same seems to happen in singing bowl sessions. More than once participants have reported that as the session progressed their hearing became clearer and they could distinguish more sound combinations.
-In hypnosis the individual allows the hypnotist to make suggestions. In the hypnotic state of mind it is possible to recall or resolve past memories which relate to current blockages. Old, outdated, and inappropriate patterns of behavior can be dropped in favor of new and more rewarding ways of being. The purpose of hypnosis is to change the human being in a positive way. Similar to hypnosis, the sounds of the singing bowls produce an initial relaxation followed by a trance state that differs from one person to another. With singing bowl sessions, however, no one gives the participants suggestions. Instead the individual opens the doors to the inner world and experiences what is needed at that moment. Expectation can be a determining factor, a kind of self suggestion or hypnosis. This would explain why people who are already engaged in spiritual practices will have interesting experiences while other people will just deeply relax, and a few will even go to sleep."
-Source:  http://www.soul-guidance.com/sbbook/sb06.htm (accessed: 3 December 2006) <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:B9 hummingbird hovering|B9 hummingbird hovering]] ([[User talk:B9 hummingbird hovering|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/B9 hummingbird hovering|contribs]]){{#if:07:47, 3 December 2006 (UTC)|&#32;07:47, 3 December 2006 (UTC)|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
 == Structure of article ==